From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 1 09:55:30 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 1 11:22:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Escaped prisoners In-Reply-To: <002701c57d52$dd9a3bb0$152ca8c0@loungedining> Message-ID: >From: "Martin Vicca" > >Okay Bruce I agree with all you say here but consider this, What happens if >the guard is broken while in melee with another (enemy unit) do they >withdraw carrying their prisoners or are the prisoners released:ie.e brit >unit A guard prisoners B. They get jumped by german unit C. No result in >the CC ph and the prisoners do not attack their guards as at this point >they are neither broken nor in melee. At the end of the turn a melee >ensues. Now the prisoners do not newed a TC to attack their guards. A >sniper attack breaks the guard unit. The guard mustattempt to withdraw. The >prisoners b and german unit C attack the guard A. The attack fails to have >any effect (incidentally they roled a 12). The guard now withdraws. Do the >prisoners come with him? He is still in controll of them they are attacking >him but have not "escaped". If you treat them as SW then they should be >taken.(I know it's a bad analagy). >I could not find any good answer to this question. First, as small correction -- the Guards do *not* have to Withdraw since they are guarding prisoners; A11.16. As to Martin's query above, again the Guards do not *have* to Withdraw. They may choose to do so of course. If they Withdraw then COWTRA says they automatically take the Prisoners with them since that is not one of the limited times they may abandon them (A20.5). Note that A20.5 says that the only way for Prisoners to become ex-Prisoners is if their Guard is eliminated. A20.55 expands this to allow Escaping Prisoners to attempt Withdrawal as another means to become ex-Prisoners. Those are the only two COWTRA ways their Prisoner status can change. So if the Guard Withdraws and the Prisoners *don't* Withdraw then they will remain joined-at-the-hip (not HIP). Scott Jackson aka Stonewall >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Probst" >To: "al cann" >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:13 AM >Subject: Re: [Aslml] Escaped prisoners > > >On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:00:07 -0400, "al cann" wrote: > >> A HS prisoner is guarded by HS and leader. Fire into the hex breaks >>both the leader and non-captive HS while the prisoner passes its MC. Can >>anyone tell me how to play this from this point on with respect to >>withdrawal and rearming? It is the former captors' player turn. > >There are a *lot* of variables to cover here. I'll try and be as >comprehensive as possible, but there are many possible ways this could play >out, depending on what *other* units are around, what nationalities are in >play, if the broken units have anywhere to rout to, and so forth. > >First thing to clarify: who are the guards? The prisoners cannot be >guarded >by > 1 unit. So either the HS *or* the leader are the guarding unit, not >both. > >We'll assume that it's the HS that is the guarding unit. > >The broken leader may rout away in the RtPh if he so chooses (it might be >wise >to do so). The broken HS is stuck with the prisoners; whether or not he >routs, they will accompany him. Even if the broken HS routs into a >location >containing other unbroken friendly units, no-one else will be able to take >over guard duty unless something *else* happens to eliminate the guard >before >the prisoners escape. The broken HS remains at risk (i.e., escape remains >a >possibility) until such time as it rallies, or the prisoners are otherwise >dealt with (e.g., by being massacred by a berserk unit). > >Unless the prisoners are from a nationality that will never attempt escape >(e.g., Italians, Japanese), in the next CCPh (and every CCPh thereafter >that >the guard remains broken) the prisoners get to make an Escape Attempt TC. >If >they fail, nothing happens. If they succeed, they may initiate Close >Combat >with their guard. They may choose to attack any other units in the same >Location as part of that attack if they want, but it's not required (and >probably wouldn't be wise). [EXC: if the broken leader is still here, and >has >no *other* MMC that he can defend with, he must be attacked with the broken >HS >(A11.14); he cannot attempt to withdraw, as there is no Melee yet.] > >The prisoners have a CC strength of "1". The broken HS defends at whatever >its strength happens to be, but there will be a -2 DRM for the defender >being >broken. It's unlikely that other modifiers will apply. The prisoners get >to >attack first (A20.55). > >If the prisoners successfully eliminate their HS guard, they get rearmed >and >become a Green or Conscript unit (unless US Marine, G17.14). If there are >any >other units remaining capable of making an attack, they may now attack the >re-armed ex-prisoners. A Melee may or may not develop; if one does, since >the >ex-prisoners have successfully dealt with their guards they are now treated >like any other unit in a Melee -- and being Inexperienced they are >relatively >easy to recapture. > >If the prisoners *don't* eliminate their guard, they remain prisoners, but >may >now be attacked (without being concerned about massacre) by any other unit >in >a position to do so (remembering that unarmed units are treated as >Inexperienced and thus easier to recapture). If still alive and uncaptured >at >the end of the CCPh, there is now a Melee. This will be resolved as usual >the >next turn, but remember that the unarmed unit is still a prisoner and thus >still gets to attack first. They may now attempt Withdrawal rather than >making an attack against their guards; the still-broken guards themselves >*must* attempt to Withdraw (which is an extra -2 DRM) (which is a tempting >reason for the prisoners to hang around and try to eliminate them). Again, >the final result depends on what else has happened during the player turn, >what other units are present in the Location, etc. > >Phew! Hope that helps! > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au >Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 >"Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" >ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From damavs at alltel.net Fri Jul 1 12:09:48 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Fri Jul 1 12:09:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASLOK XX - October 2nd thru 9th In-Reply-To: References: <001401c57ddb$e7037340$6401a8c0@MOOSE> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050701145329.01dba728@mail.alltel.net> ASLOK XX is October 2nd thru 9th this year. ASL World Cup action opens the "official" tourney action, followed by "Mark Nixon Minis" kicking off on Wednesday the 5th and the "Grofaz" main tourney on Thursday the 6th. Don't miss out on the perfect way to celebrate the 20th anniversary of ASL - ASLOK XX in Greater Cleveland, OH. You can find pre-reg info, including paying via Paypal (allowing credit card payment) at: http://www.aslok.org/prereg.html Currently we're running at 30 pre-registrations so far, which compared to last year when we had zero at this time, means our attendance should be ~infinite this year (if my math is right). Don't be the only one in the ASL Universe to miss ASLOK XX! Flyers for those that have yet to pre-reg will be mailed out in July. I'm in the middle of transcribing the ASLOK mailing list addresses so if you have moved, or don't believe you're on the list and want a flyer/reminder, drop me an email with an updated address. Or better yet go ahead and pre-register either via mail or on-line and save ASLOK a stamp... Hope to see everyone in October for a celebration of ASL & ASLOK's 20th anniverseries... Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org [Hotel & pre-reg info follows - more details online at www.aslok.org] ASLOK HOTEL INFO AND PREREGISTRATION PROCEDURE QUALITY INN & SUITES 7230 ENGLE ROAD MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS, OHIO 44130 440-243-4040 ? Make your hotel reservations with the Quality Inn. Rooms are $69.00 per night. Mention OKTOBERFEST for reduced rate (standard room rates are $40-$60 higher). Make your reservations with the hotel early as reduced rates end Sep. 19th. Free airport shuttle! Same hotel since 1996! ? Before September 15th, 2005 send $25.00 to Bret Hildebran to preregister for ASLOK. It is $30.00 after that date and at the door. All figures are in US dollars. Check the web site?s ?Pre-Reg? for PayPal payment options, including payment via Credit Card. Do make sure to email your mini choices if paying via PayPal. ? Specify T-shirt size and quantity if you want these: Medium, Large and EXTRA Large are $10.00 each. Double-X-Large are $13.00 each, Triple- X-Large are $15.00 each. Quad-X-Large-Tall are $18.00 each. T-shirts are available in numbers based on pre-reg sales; order now to make sure you get what you want! ? Be sure to request Mini-Tournaments you would like to enter. You will be able to preregister for only one per day, but give a rank in priority each day; which will put you in your topmost pick which is still available for each day. Some Mini's will run more than once; where ASL fans demand it, we give it to them! ? Include your full name, address, phone number and email. If you would like to receive a mailed confirmation, please also include a SASE, or include a note with your email for an electronic confirmation. From rodneykinney at comcast.net Fri Jul 1 14:07:26 2005 From: rodneykinney at comcast.net (rodneykinney@comcast.net) Date: Fri Jul 1 14:07:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL 5.0 notes Message-ID: <070120052107.8186.42C5B08E0007BAAC00001FFA2200761064970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> > So does this mean it runs in memory or that you have to connect to the > server to run? The "Click here to run VASL" link will prompt you to create a shortcut on your desktop. Once it's there this shortcut will work to launch VASL even if you're offline. If you are online, it will check for and download any available updates. The manual install is only there for people who need to get VASL running on a machine that is never online, want to edit the module (or run someone else's edited module), or whose browsers can't get the "Click here" link to work. rk From ktasl at comcast.net Fri Jul 1 15:18:41 2005 From: ktasl at comcast.net (Keith Todd) Date: Fri Jul 1 15:18:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL 5.0 notes References: <070120052107.8186.42C5B08E0007BAAC00001FFA2200761064970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000401c57e8a$d6878740$6401a8c0@MOOSE> Thanks, Rodney, The only way I was able to install with the Click here link was to download the jnlp file to my desktop and then use javaws to run it. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Keith Todd" ; Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] VASL 5.0 notes > > > > > So does this mean it runs in memory or that you have to connect to the > > server to run? > > The "Click here to run VASL" link will prompt you to create a shortcut on your desktop. Once it's there this shortcut will work to launch VASL even if you're offline. If you are online, it will check for and download any available updates. > > The manual install is only there for people who need to get VASL running on a machine that is never online, want to edit the module (or run someone else's edited module), or whose browsers can't get the "Click here" link to work. > > rk > From rodneykinney at comcast.net Fri Jul 1 16:12:31 2005 From: rodneykinney at comcast.net (rodneykinney@comcast.net) Date: Fri Jul 1 16:12:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Extensions in VASL 5 Message-ID: <070120052312.15617.42C5CDDF000EB09C00003D012200761064970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Because of the reorganization of the counter palette in VASL 5.0, many extensions written for version 4.x are not able to load. (They're looking for pull-downs that no longer exist, for example) This will result in error dialogs like "Unable to create class VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionElement in data archive" You can get rid of these errors by removing the offending extension files from the extensions folder. It's fairly straightforward to adapt an extension to be compatible with version 5.0 by editing the buildFile. I will post instructions to the VASL Map Cabal mailing list. rk From ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 2 08:55:44 2005 From: ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk (Binyamin Jones) Date: Sat Jul 2 08:55:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL 5; Wow In-Reply-To: <070120052312.15617.42C5CDDF000EB09C00003D012200761064970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050702155544.74523.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> hey guys thanks a million, this is fantastic. all the work you put in is most appreciated now this version will do me for two years in africa. thanks again b e n ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com From arobin at scccinternet.com Sat Jul 2 20:20:43 2005 From: arobin at scccinternet.com (Andrew Robin) Date: Sun Jul 3 03:35:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Mortars in pillboxes Message-ID: Can mortar be fired from a PillBox? From chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk Sun Jul 3 03:45:49 2005 From: chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk (Chris Netherton) Date: Sun Jul 3 03:54:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Mortars in pillboxes References: Message-ID: <000301c57fbc$60a67cb0$0501a8c0@poolandhyj6ph> > Can mortar be fired from a PillBox? B30.2...Mortar fire and fire vs an Aerial target are NA from inside a pillbox. Chris From thunderchief at ozemail.com.au Sun Jul 3 04:32:18 2005 From: thunderchief at ozemail.com.au (Adam Lunney) Date: Sun Jul 3 04:28:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scotland the Brave 5 - Hohenstaufen Left - AAR Message-ID: <048401c57fc2$e2b0aea0$0201010a@yourfulkl1oh2q> Hi all, I thought I'd send this AAR of the game that Darryl Lundy and I played via VASL. Scotland the Brave (one of the British/SS Normandy modules released by CH and designed by Ian Daglish) doesn't get enough play in my opinion, and this game reinforced my belief that this is a great bunch of scenarios. (I've got a lot of interest in Normandy as well). I had the Brits and set up some guys on either side of the gully which forms the main Brit defence line. Both AT guns set up in front of the gully to get the most number of shots at the German tanks and HTs when they came on. My arty observer was behind the gully, hiding with the radio, who drew two red cards at the first chance he got. Thanks for nothing buddy! Darryls' turn one guys didn't draw a lot of fire - I saved my AT guns for the turn two guys who brought on 5 tanks plus infantry and 2 HTs. I let them come right up to my guns before hammering them. I waited for Brit T2 to fire, since I didn't want to risk AFPh shots from 658s and LMGs spread across my front, so I stayed hidden. In Brit T2 Prep the AT guns open up. AT gun A in J4 killed two Pz IVs while they were still in motion with 5 shots including an intensive. The next turn the Germans charged my two AT guns and drove into their hexes. The J4 gun had a HT drive into its hex, which was then killed by an adjacent unit with a PIAT, but the crew survived, so the AT gun crew killed them in CC. Well done! The German infantry in this scenario are all 658's so they were giving my 457's a hard time. NQ was invoked early by Darryl and he took a couple of my squads and leaders out of the game nice and early. Darryl quickly captured the J4 AT gun and shot at my tanks that came on. After one turn of my tanks being onboard all of Darryl's tanks were destroyed so I thought I'd have a reasonable time of it - stay behind the gully and stop his infantry getting to my weaker infantry. WELL, THAT WAS THE PLAN! A German crew took the J4 gun, pointed it at my tanks and was soon destroying them ( including a CH - damn!). One gun - many nations! Darryl eventually malfed the gun firing at a tank that was chasing a bunch of his broken squads and two leaders on the German side of the gully. The German OBA started working my guys over in the K8 area and the German units focusing on them generated two heroes in quick time. All my tanks except one were gone, the German FP was too much for my guys and despite having no armour support (I stunned the FT halftrack before it got a shot off on two occasions but I think Darryl was using it as bait) he smothered my troops and I conceded at the end of German Turn 8 CCPh. There was one turn to go but I had about 3 squads and 3 leaders left, most of whom were broken, so there was no chance of a counterattack to take back 2 buildings from 8 or so 658's and MGs. It was a very close and exciting game with lots happening for both of us. There were 11 HOBs during the game, including about 4 heroes (3 German and 1 Brit, a few squads battle hardening and a couple of leaders battle hardening as well). I kept a record of all the DRs on a game record sheet and they were pretty evenly spread in the anticipated bell curve, though Darryl rolled 14 snakes to my 8, and I rolled 21 3's to his 13. There were a few sniper shots but nothing overly dramatic. If you get a chance give this module, and it's follow up (Scotland the Brave 2) a go - I don't think enough people (according to ROAR anyway) have tried it. Adam Lunney From jmmcleod at mts.net Sun Jul 3 10:01:07 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Sun Jul 3 13:07:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] 2005 Canadian ASL Open Message-ID: <002801c57ff0$cf9dc8b0$7f27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Greetings all! Only 75 more days until the 2005 CASLO! The scenario list will be made available in a bout two weeks time and as a special reminder, if you are wanting to buy a CASLAO tournament t-shirt, beer mug or coffee mug, please let the tournament staff know ahead of time. We only order a small number of extras of each so if you suddenly decide you do want one or all of the above, you may be out of luck. I hope to see you here in Winnipeg this September for all the fun and fury that is the CASLO! Hopefully, the rains will have subsided by then and we will not need an assault boat to reach the hotel ... mind you, how cool would that be! The ramp drops down and out pour a bunch of gamers with their ASL kit strapped to their backs, dice in hand and charging toward the bar. The bar staff can toss all the nachos they want, we'll still establish a beachhead and then push on to the game room. :) Don't forget, the Canadian ASL Open, 16-17-18 September! =Jim= From jmmcleod at mts.net Sun Jul 3 10:08:04 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Sun Jul 3 13:07:22 2005 Subject: [Aslml] 2005 Canadian ASL Open Message-ID: <003201c57ff1$c7b87e50$7f27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Greetings all! Only 75 more days until the 2005 CASLO! The scenario list will be made available in a bout two weeks time and as a special reminder, if you are wanting to buy a CASLAO tournament t-shirt, beer mug or coffee mug, please let the tournament staff know ahead of time. We only order a small number of extras of each so if you suddenly decide you do want one or all of the above, you may be out of luck. I hope to see you here in Winnipeg this September for all the fun and fury that is the CASLO! Hopefully, the rains will have subsided by then and we will not need an assault boat to reach the hotel ... mind you, how cool would that be! The ramp drops down and out pour a bunch of gamers with their ASL kit strapped to their backs, dice in hand and charging toward the bar. The bar staff can toss all the nachos they want, we'll still establish a beachhead and then push on to the game room. :) Don't forget, the Canadian ASL Open, 16-17-18 September! =Jim= From jmmcleod at mts.net Sun Jul 3 10:09:22 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Sun Jul 3 13:07:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] 2005 Canadian ASL Open References: <062920051303.2248.42C29C2B00026274000008C82200751090970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003b01c57ff1$f64bb610$7f27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Greetings all! Only 75 more days until the 2005 CASLO! The scenario list will be made available in a bout two weeks time and as a special reminder, if you are wanting to buy a CASLAO tournament t-shirt, beer mug or coffee mug, please let the tournament staff know ahead of time. We only order a small number of extras of each so if you suddenly decide you do want one or all of the above, you may be out of luck. I hope to see you here in Winnipeg this September for all the fun and fury that is the CASLO! Hopefully, the rains will have subsided by then and we will not need an assault boat to reach the hotel ... mind you, how cool would that be! The ramp drops down and out pour a bunch of gamers with their ASL kit strapped to their backs, dice in hand and charging toward the bar. The bar staff can toss all the nachos they want, we'll still establish a beachhead and then push on to the game room. :) Don't forget, the Canadian ASL Open, 16-17-18 September! =Jim= From robertthepastor at juno.com Sun Jul 3 18:08:53 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Sun Jul 3 18:18:37 2005 Subject: [Aslml] broken = Lax Message-ID: <20050703.182250.404.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, For Ambush purposes, is a Broken unit _also_ considered Lax? Take care, Robert From daveolie at eastlink.ca Sun Jul 3 19:03:58 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Sun Jul 3 19:00:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] broken = Lax References: <20050703.182250.404.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c5803c$a8728e00$a64d8918@klis.com> Robert asked: > For Ambush purposes, is a Broken unit _also_ considered Lax? Only at Night, since a brokie is non-Good Order. E1.62. David "poor widdle bwokie" Olie From inbox at chriswalton.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 4 06:23:30 2005 From: inbox at chriswalton.demon.co.uk (Chris Walton) Date: Mon Jul 4 06:17:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE Message-ID: <0IJ3007W7UJALF@sprite.orange.co.uk> Rule A24.1 states that SMOKE can be placed by a squad having a smoke exponent number. It also states that smoke exponent numbers apply only to squads. The Introduction states that SSR always have precedence over the Game system. H1.22 states that only squads can be purchased as Assault Engineers and states that for an Assault Engineers, the Smoke Exponent is increased by two even if it is zero. It is common for SSRs, when dealing with Assault Engineers to have a rule of the form "German 5-4-8s/2-3-8s and Russian 6-2-8s/3-2-8s are Assault Engineers (H1.22)." (Example from J54 Showtime, but it comes up frequently in Scenarios). In these circumstances do Assault Engineer half-squads have a smoke capability of 2? Chris Walton From rjmosher at direcway.com Mon Jul 4 06:54:13 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Mon Jul 4 06:48:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE In-Reply-To: <0IJ3007W7UJALF@sprite.orange.co.uk> References: <0IJ3007W7UJALF@sprite.orange.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050704085300.01cd6ed0@pop3.direcway.com> At 08:23 AM 7/4/2005, Chris Walton wrote: >In these circumstances do Assault Engineer half-squads have a smoke >capability of 2? No. Only squads. So if two HS recombine into a squad, the new squad would get the Smoke exponent bonus. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Mon Jul 4 07:02:08 2005 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Mon Jul 4 06:56:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE References: <0IJ3007W7UJALF@sprite.orange.co.uk> Message-ID: <001801c580a0$f7b7aea0$0200000a@posh3> Hi Chris You can decide anything in a SSR, so it is indeed possible. However in the wording below, the HS would not have a smoke exponent. The SSR would have to sepcifically state that HS have smoke capability. Note that a squad with no exponent would have smoke on a 2 if designated as assault engineers. Ex: the russian 6-2-8. Regards Kenneth Knudsen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Walton" To: Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 3:23 PM Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE > Rule A24.1 states that SMOKE can be placed by a squad having a smoke > exponent number. It also states that smoke exponent numbers apply only to > squads. > The Introduction states that SSR always have precedence over the Game > system. > H1.22 states that only squads can be purchased as Assault Engineers and > states that for an Assault Engineers, the Smoke Exponent is increased by two > even if it is zero. > It is common for SSRs, when dealing with Assault Engineers to have a rule of > the form "German 5-4-8s/2-3-8s and Russian 6-2-8s/3-2-8s are Assault > Engineers (H1.22)." (Example from J54 Showtime, but it comes up frequently > in Scenarios). > In these circumstances do Assault Engineer half-squads have a smoke > capability of 2? > > Chris Walton > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From sblanton at nc.rr.com Mon Jul 4 13:42:29 2005 From: sblanton at nc.rr.com (Scott Blanton) Date: Mon Jul 4 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] LC questions for GT campaign Message-ID: <000001c580d8$e5a5b260$7702a8c0@coruscant> I posted these to the ASL forums and have not gotten any responses, so I'll try here. I'm getting ready to start the Sand and Blood CG as the Marines. I have some questions/clarifications I need. 1. The way I read it, units of any kind can not go under the causeway (stone pier). Is this correct? 2. LC can beach on a ocean-hinterland hexside. Is the only difference between this and a beach hex the 50% cost vs the 25% cost to unload? 3. If a LC is beached on a ocean-beach hexside and the beach hex has a building, what does it cost a squad to enter the building? Is 25% to unload plus the building MF? 4. Does a LC have to spend 25% of it's MPs to unload? Even if beached across a hexside? 5. Since it is 1942, we are using LCVs. These are unarmored, and unarmed (star for both AFs, and no MG). MPs are still 5 and DPs are still 3. Correct? Anything I missed? Thanks! Scott Blanton Cary, NC From robertthepastor at juno.com Mon Jul 4 13:54:49 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Mon Jul 4 13:53:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL Message-ID: <20050704.135834.3464.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, I have an unconcealed GO squad in 12S2 (Ground level Open Ground). In 12R2, at the Ground level of a stone two-story house, is a concealed enemy squad. During my MPh, I attempted to move my squad from 12S2 to 12R2 via an Assault Move. I was bounced back to 12S2. My opponent lost concealment. The Location of 12R2 is also a FBL but the FBL was not known to me at the time of the AM. I found out when I tried to _Advance_ from 12S2 to 12R2 during the APh. QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* revealed at that time? (I think no.) Take care, Robert From hofors at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 4 14:22:34 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Mon Jul 4 14:16:11 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL In-Reply-To: <20050704.135834.3464.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20050704.135834.3464.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: Robert M Hammond writes: > Listers, > > I have an unconcealed GO squad in 12S2 (Ground level Open Ground). In > 12R2, at the Ground level of a stone two-story house, is a concealed > enemy squad. During my MPh, I attempted to move my squad from 12S2 to > 12R2 via an Assault Move. I was bounced back to 12S2. My opponent lost > concealment. The Location of 12R2 is also a FBL but the FBL was not > known to me at the time of the AM. I found out when I tried to _Advance_ > from 12S2 to 12R2 during the APh. > > QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* > revealed at that time? (I think no.) > I think "yes". As per B23.911, it is revealed when a unit "attempts to enter it", which is exactly what your squad did in the MPh. Regards, Mattias From daveolie at eastlink.ca Mon Jul 4 14:46:53 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Mon Jul 4 14:45:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL References: <20050704.135834.3464.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <018801c580e2$038f14c0$a64d8918@klis.com> Robert wrote: > I have an unconcealed GO squad in 12S2 (Ground level Open Ground). O.K. > In > 12R2, at the Ground level of a stone two-story house, is a concealed > enemy squad. O.K. > During my MPh, I attempted to move my squad from 12S2 to > 12R2 via an Assault Move. I was bounced back to 12S2. My opponent lost > concealment. Yes, by A12.15. > The Location of 12R2 is also a FBL but the FBL was not > known to me at the time of the AM. I found out when I tried to _Advance_ > from 12S2 to 12R2 during the APh. Ah, ha. > QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* > revealed at that time? (I think no.) I think you're right. The presence of the enemy squad alone is enough to deny you entry to the Location (while stripping his concealment). He does not *have* to reveal the FBL to prevent your entry, therefore the FBL is not revealed in your MPh. David "Another trick up your sleeve, Moriarty?" Olie From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Jul 4 14:56:08 2005 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon Jul 4 14:50:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL Message-ID: I'm not sure, but think that your opponent can reveal a squad (or equivalent), tell you the locations is fortified, and keep concealment. Janusz ________________________________ From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net on behalf of Robert M Hammond Sent: Mon 2005-07-04 22:54 To: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL Listers, I have an unconcealed GO squad in 12S2 (Ground level Open Ground). In 12R2, at the Ground level of a stone two-story house, is a concealed enemy squad. During my MPh, I attempted to move my squad from 12S2 to 12R2 via an Assault Move. I was bounced back to 12S2. My opponent lost concealment. The Location of 12R2 is also a FBL but the FBL was not known to me at the time of the AM. I found out when I tried to _Advance_ from 12S2 to 12R2 during the APh. QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* revealed at that time? (I think no.) Take care, Robert _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From PShelling at comcast.net Mon Jul 4 15:33:20 2005 From: PShelling at comcast.net (PShelling@comcast.net) Date: Mon Jul 4 15:26:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL OIC? Message-ID: <070420052233.22405.42C9B930000AB4F600005785220588617209020704040A08ACAF@comcast.net> Listenmenschen: Does anyone know how I get in touch with Tom Repetti or anyone from the VASL map gang? I have a playtest posse ready for Ponyri, and I need to know how to hook them up. Thanks. Pete "Think: Red Barricades meet Riley's Road" Shelling From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 18:56:10 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Mon Jul 4 18:49:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL OIC? In-Reply-To: <070420052233.22405.42C9B930000AB4F600005785220588617209020704040A08ACAF@comcast.net> References: <070420052233.22405.42C9B930000AB4F600005785220588617209020704040A08ACAF@comcast.net> Message-ID: <332a4d0305070418562928663a@mail.gmail.com> vassalmapcabal can be found in groups.yahoo.com -Chuck On 7/4/05, PShelling@comcast.net wrote: > Listenmenschen: > > Does anyone know how I get in touch with Tom Repetti or anyone from the VASL map gang? > > I have a playtest posse ready for Ponyri, and I need to know how to hook them up. > > Thanks. > > Pete "Think: Red Barricades meet Riley's Road" Shelling > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 18:57:14 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Mon Jul 4 18:50:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL OIC? In-Reply-To: <332a4d0305070418562928663a@mail.gmail.com> References: <070420052233.22405.42C9B930000AB4F600005785220588617209020704040A08ACAF@comcast.net> <332a4d0305070418562928663a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <332a4d0305070418573fb4da@mail.gmail.com> my bad it's vaslmapcabal the group home URL is http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vaslmapcabal On 7/4/05, Chuck T wrote: > vassalmapcabal > > can be found in groups.yahoo.com > > -Chuck > > On 7/4/05, PShelling@comcast.net wrote: > > Listenmenschen: > > > > Does anyone know how I get in touch with Tom Repetti or anyone from the VASL map gang? > > > > I have a playtest posse ready for Ponyri, and I need to know how to hook them up. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Pete "Think: Red Barricades meet Riley's Road" Shelling > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > > > -- > Chuck T > chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From daveolie at eastlink.ca Mon Jul 4 20:19:21 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Mon Jul 4 20:15:20 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL OIC? References: <070420052233.22405.42C9B930000AB4F600005785220588617209020704040A08ACAF@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003001c58110$7a3e72e0$a64d8918@klis.com> Pete wrote: > Pete "Think: Red Barricades meet Riley's Road" Shelling Somehow I think "Ponyri" is going to be the best thing yet in ASL. David "Oh, yeah, there's Ortona, too. Good times a' comin'" Olie From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Mon Jul 4 22:43:22 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Mon Jul 4 22:39:14 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: WP & HIP/Concealment loss questions Message-ID: Hi all I'm wondering how the following situation is resolved. The Defender has a HIP unit in Concealment Terrain. No Attacker has a LOS to the Location where the defender is hidden. The attacker calls in an OBA White Phos FFE and one of the hexes of the blast area is where the defender is hidden. The defender will have to take the WP NMC but how is this resolved in relation to the unit's HIP status and the fact that no attacking unit has LOS to that Location? Obviously if the unit fails the WP MC it is placed on board broken and unconcealed. However if it passes the NMC is it 1) Placed on board concealed 2) Placed on board unconcealed 3) Left off board HIP How much information, and when, does the defender have to reveal to the attacker Also on WP NMCs, positive TEM is used as a negative DRM to the MC. Would negative TEM such as the -1 Airburst for OBA WP in woods be applied a positive DRM to the WP NMC? Cheers Jon This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for use of the addressee.The confidentiality and/or privilege is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 07:24:04 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Jul 5 07:17:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: WP & HIP/Concealment loss questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jonathan asks, >The Defender has a HIP unit in Concealment Terrain. No Attacker has a LOS >to >the Location where the defender is hidden. The attacker calls in an OBA >White Phos FFE and one of the hexes of the blast area is where the defender >is hidden. The defender will have to take the WP NMC but how is this >resolved in relation to the unit's HIP status and the fact that no >attacking >unit has LOS to that Location? >Obviously if the unit fails the WP MC it is placed on board broken and >unconcealed. However if it passes the NMC is it >1) Placed on board concealed >2) Placed on board unconcealed >3) Left off board HIP >How much information, and when, does the defender have to reveal to the >attacker If no enemy unit has LOS to the HIP unit, it will not lose HIP if it passes the NMC. (Case F of the Concealment Loss/Gain Table.) You don't have to reveal the hex where the MC is taking place, either. Your opponent WILL know that there is a HIP unit in the blast area, but not necessarily where in the blast area. >Also on WP NMCs, positive TEM is used as a negative DRM to the MC. Would >negative TEM such as the -1 Airburst for OBA WP in woods be applied a >positive DRM to the WP NMC? Yes. Specifically stated in A24.31. Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 09:34:25 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 09:27:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: WP & HIP/Concealment loss questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike is right. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall >From: "Michael Pierzchala" >To: JPCole@agric.wa.gov.au, aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >Subject: RE: [Aslml] ASL: WP & HIP/Concealment loss questions >Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 10:24:04 -0400 > >Jonathan asks, > >>The Defender has a HIP unit in Concealment Terrain. No Attacker has a LOS >>to >>the Location where the defender is hidden. The attacker calls in an OBA >>White Phos FFE and one of the hexes of the blast area is where the >>defender >>is hidden. The defender will have to take the WP NMC but how is this >>resolved in relation to the unit's HIP status and the fact that no >>attacking >>unit has LOS to that Location? >>Obviously if the unit fails the WP MC it is placed on board broken and >>unconcealed. However if it passes the NMC is it >>1) Placed on board concealed >>2) Placed on board unconcealed >>3) Left off board HIP >>How much information, and when, does the defender have to reveal to the >>attacker > >If no enemy unit has LOS to the HIP unit, it will not lose HIP if it passes >the NMC. (Case F of the Concealment Loss/Gain Table.) You don't have to >reveal the hex where the MC is taking place, either. Your opponent WILL >know that there is a HIP unit in the blast area, but not necessarily where >in the blast area. > >>Also on WP NMCs, positive TEM is used as a negative DRM to the MC. Would >>negative TEM such as the -1 Airburst for OBA WP in woods be applied a >>positive DRM to the WP NMC? > >Yes. Specifically stated in A24.31. > > > >Mike Pierzchala > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 09:41:45 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 09:35:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL In-Reply-To: <20050704.135834.3464.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: >I have an unconcealed GO squad in 12S2 (Ground level Open Ground). In >12R2, at the Ground level of a stone two-story house, is a concealed >enemy squad. During my MPh, I attempted to move my squad from 12S2 to >12R2 via an Assault Move. I was bounced back to 12S2. My opponent lost >concealment. The Location of 12R2 is also a FBL but the FBL was not >known to me at the time of the AM. I found out when I tried to _Advance_ >from 12S2 to 12R2 during the APh. > >QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* >revealed at that time? (I think no.) Yes the FBL is also revealed; B23.922, 3rd sentence. This is supported by the ultimate sentence as well, since explicitely stating that A12.15 still applies shows that A12.15 is an additional effect to revealing the FBL. IMHO anyway. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 10:28:27 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 10:21:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] LC questions for GT campaign In-Reply-To: <000001c580d8$e5a5b260$7702a8c0@coruscant> Message-ID: >I posted these to the ASL forums and have not gotten any responses, so I'll >try here. I'm getting ready to start the Sand and Blood CG as the Marines. >I have some questions/clarifications I need. No GT (Gav.-Tanam., right?) rules handy...so SSR or GT rules may override my answers below. Answers based on the ASLRBv2. >1. The way I read it, units of any kind can not go under the causeway >(stone >pier). Is this correct? Correct; G13.73. >2. LC can beach on a ocean-hinterland hexside. Is the only difference >between this and a beach hex the 50% cost vs the 25% cost to unload? Basically, though only MF-expending units would pay 50% -- MP-expending units would pay 4 additional MP; G12.401. >3. If a LC is beached on a ocean-beach hexside and the beach hex has a >building, what does it cost a squad to enter the building? Is 25% to unload >plus the building MF? Nothing--the 25% Unload cost covers everything; D6.5. No. >4. Does a LC have to spend 25% of it's MPs to unload? Even if beached >across >a hexside? Yes; G12.4-.404. >5. Since it is 1942, we are using LCVs. These are unarmored, and unarmed >(star for both AFs, and no MG). MPs are still 5 and DPs are still 3. >Correct? Anything I missed? Sorry, not enough info for me to help with that...exactly what dates are covered? Don't the GT rules tell you which LC to use?? Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 10:29:29 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 10:23:03 2005 Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE In-Reply-To: <001801c580a0$f7b7aea0$0200000a@posh3> Message-ID: Ron and Ken are correct. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall >From: "Kenneth Knudsen" >To: "Chris Walton" >CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >Subject: Re: [Aslml] SMOKE >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:02:08 +0200 > >Hi Chris > >You can decide anything in a SSR, so it is indeed possible. >However in the wording below, the HS would not have a smoke exponent. The >SSR would have to sepcifically state that HS have smoke capability. > >Note that a squad with no exponent would have smoke on a 2 if designated as >assault engineers. Ex: the russian 6-2-8. > >Regards >Kenneth Knudsen > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris Walton" >To: >Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 3:23 PM >Subject: [Aslml] SMOKE > > > > Rule A24.1 states that SMOKE can be placed by a squad having a smoke > > exponent number. It also states that smoke exponent numbers apply only >to > > squads. > > The Introduction states that SSR always have precedence over the Game > > system. > > H1.22 states that only squads can be purchased as Assault Engineers and > > states that for an Assault Engineers, the Smoke Exponent is increased by >two > > even if it is zero. > > It is common for SSRs, when dealing with Assault Engineers to have a >rule of > > the form "German 5-4-8s/2-3-8s and Russian 6-2-8s/3-2-8s are Assault > > Engineers (H1.22)." (Example from J54 Showtime, but it comes up >frequently > > in Scenarios). > > In these circumstances do Assault Engineer half-squads have a smoke > > capability of 2? > > > > Chris Walton > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 10:31:02 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 10:24:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] broken = Lax In-Reply-To: <00cb01c5803c$a8728e00$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: David is correct about Night making brokies Lax. However, a Lax unit that breaks during the day is both Lax and Broken...but a Stealthy unit that breaks is only Broken. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall >From: David Olie >To: Robert M Hammond >,Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >Subject: Re: [Aslml] broken = Lax >Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:03:58 -0300 > >Robert asked: > > > For Ambush purposes, is a Broken unit _also_ considered Lax? > >Only at Night, since a brokie is non-Good Order. E1.62. > >David "poor widdle bwokie" Olie > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 12:16:43 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Jul 5 12:10:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, did you not mean to say. "Yes the FBL is also revealed;"...B23.911 3rd sentence? If so, then I will say, "Scott is correct!" :-) >>QUESTION: When my squad is bounced back during the MPh, is the FBL *also* >>revealed at that time? (I think no.) > > >Yes the FBL is also revealed; B23.922, 3rd sentence. This is supported by >the ultimate sentence as well, since explicitely stating that A12.15 still >applies shows that A12.15 is an additional effect to revealing the FBL. >IMHO anyway. > >Scott Jackson >aka Stonewall Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From rjmosher at direcway.com Tue Jul 5 12:23:39 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Tue Jul 5 12:17:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050705142302.01c1e4a0@pop3.direcway.com> At 02:16 PM 7/5/2005, Michael Pierzchala wrote: >Scott, did you not mean to say. "Yes the FBL is also revealed;"...B23.911 >3rd sentence? Hmmm..you mean 4th sentence? :) note ASLRBv2... :) ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 12:37:35 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Jul 5 12:31:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] LC questions for GT campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>5. Since it is 1942, we are using LCVs. These are unarmored, and unarmed >>(star for both AFs, and no MG). MPs are still 5 and DPs are still 3. >>Correct? Anything I missed? Yes, those MP and DP numbers are correct. See LC note #3 in Ch H. It states that, "Use of the LCVP in scenarios set prior to 6/43 actually represents the LCV." Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 12:39:17 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Jul 5 12:32:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050705142302.01c1e4a0@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: Ron is correct! :-) >At 02:16 PM 7/5/2005, Michael Pierzchala wrote: >>Scott, did you not mean to say. "Yes the FBL is also revealed;"...B23.911 >>3rd sentence? > >Hmmm..you mean 4th sentence? :) note ASLRBv2... :) > > >ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Tue Jul 5 13:52:29 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Tue Jul 5 13:46:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL Message-ID: lol...yep! This darn English-Math stuff is HARD!! :-) ;-) Scott Jackson aka Stonewall >From: "Michael Pierzchala" >To: rjmosher@direcway.com, asl_scottj@hotmail.com, >robertthepastor@juno.com, Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >Subject: RE: [Aslml] Assault Move bump and a FBL >Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 15:39:17 -0400 > >Ron is correct! :-) > >>At 02:16 PM 7/5/2005, Michael Pierzchala wrote: >>>Scott, did you not mean to say. "Yes the FBL is also revealed;"...B23.911 >>>3rd sentence? >> >>Hmmm..you mean 4th sentence? :) note ASLRBv2... :) >> >> >>ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. >> > >Mike Pierzchala > >_________________________________________________________________ >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Tue Jul 5 19:00:01 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Tue Jul 5 18:55:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Two rules questions Message-ID: Hi all Thanks for the answer yesterday. I have two (unrelated) rules questions: 1) G.4 Detection: Does this apply to hidden, Stealthy DEFENDERS during the Rout Phase i.e. may a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER elect to retain HIP Status if a broken enemy unit routs into/through their Location? G.4 only seems to refer to entry during the MPh. However it would seem strange that a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER can elect to remain HIP when a Good Order enemy enters in the MPh, but is revealed if a Broken unit routs into their Loc in the RtPh. 2) D13.32 Smoke Mortar: During its MPh an AFV with sM starts, moves to a new hex that involves changing its VCA, then expends a Stop MP. It then announces it will attempt to fire its sM. There is a +2 DRM to the sM usage DR as the AFV is moving/Non-Stopped (C.8). Does the Case A DRM also apply since the AFV has changed its CA during its Movement, or does the Case A only apply if at the point of firing the AFV changes its TCA/VCA? TIA Cheers Jon This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for use of the addressee.The confidentiality and/or privilege is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From kingbilly at actewagl.net.au Tue Jul 5 19:50:42 2005 From: kingbilly at actewagl.net.au (King Billy) Date: Tue Jul 5 19:44:20 2005 Subject: [Aslml] AAR - MP7 Guerra En La Selva Message-ID: <42CB4702.3020209@actewagl.net.au> Tuesday Night saw me facing yet another new (well, returning) ASL player. Paul once owned the whole set of ASL, but never got the chance to play it face to face, so gave it away. He recently got the ASLSK, and decided to get back into the game. He is now going through the process of learning the rules afresh. As such, he wanted to play an infantry only scenario. I wanted to get away from the German/US northwest Europe games that are so common in tournament sized scenarios, and he had played the Guards Counterattack scenarios, so I looked for something completely different that would not introduce to many new rules. Leafing through my large collection of scenarios, most of which have never (and most likely will never) been played, I found an interesting one titled MP7 Guerra En La Selva. This game takes place in July 1941, and pits Ecuadorians V Peruvians, in the steamy jungles of South America. As such, it is played using PTO terrain. What better way to introduce a new player to PTO than with a scenario that does not include Japanese. I gave Paul a very quick PTO lesson. Jungle (heavy in this case), Kunai, Palm Trees, Straying (interior jungle hexes) stacking limits, ambush modifiers, I think I got all of the pertinent points. As neither of us had played we rolled for sides. Paul rolled highest and chose the Peruvians, leaving me to set up. The Ecuadorians are represented by Italians. I got 9 squads, 6 3-4-7, and 3 3-3-6. Not an inspiring force pool. Added to that I got one mmg, one lmg, and two leaders, but got two dummy counters as well. With this force I had to defend half of Board 10 (rows A to P) I had to set up on or north of hex row 3. The Peruvians win by a mix of capturing the three buildings, worth a variety of VP, and exiting units. They need 20 VP to win. There is only four and a half turns to do that. So I had to cover the whole board half with nine shads and two support weapons. I figured Paul would do a board edge creep along the east side, through the jungle mass, so placed more than half of my force there, including five squads and an lmg. I put one squad with two dummy counters in P3 to cover that flank, and put the 8-1 leader, mmg and squad in building L3, which is worth 4 VP. Two other squads and the 7-0 leader were in M2 and K1, positioned as a reaction force to support either side. While there appears to be a lot of open space on the east side of the half board, the five orchard hexes, the kunai, and the inherent terrain of heavy jungle, limits the lines of site and provides hinderences. Still, with what I had I though I did a reasonable job. The Peruvians are represented by Axis Minor Allies, and start with fifteen squads, a mix of elite, first line and conscript, with two leaders, a mmg and two lmgs. Paul set up almost as expected. He put a considerable force to move down the west flank into the jungle, but also moved two squads and an lmg down the east side, and bought in a fairly large force in the middle, around I10. He moved the troops on using CX ( a lesson learned well from previous games) and moved up both flanks, drawing no fire at all. I suspect this gave him a sense of security, which then saw him try and rush troops up the middle. Some long range shots from the mmg and squads with -2 and -3 modifiers slowed it up somewhat, but did not kill anything. My next turn saw me firing with some effect with the mmg, and skulking around avoiding shots with my other troops, something I should have done more of later. In Paul's second turn he rushed the L3 building, exposing some of his troops to -2 modifier attacks again, and causing some to break and some to pin. He did get two squads and an lmg into M4, and a CX squad into L4 by the end of the turn. This turn also saw the start of a series of melees in the jungle, with a mele that would last the entire rest of the game in I4. In my turn 2 I fired and the two squads and lmg in M4, causing one to break and the other to pin.My troops on the west flank were quite effective at slowing the movement in that area. I moved a squad and leader to M3 and another squad to K4. In Pauls defensive fire he broke the leader in L3, causing him to rout to L1, surviving interdiction. In Pauls 3rd turn he fired into L3, breaking the squad, and advanced into the jungle mass on the west side. My defensive fire was ineffective, and he then advanced into L3 with both squads and lmg, and advanced into E4, creating another melee. In my prep fire of turn 3 I fired at L3 from K4 and L3, encircling that location, and breaking one squad. Paul returned fire and broke the leader and squad in M3. I then entered into melee in G4, resulting in a melee in E4, G4 and I4, a line of fighting through the centre of the jungle. Unfortunately my forces in G4 were eliminated, allowing a hole to appear. In Pauls turn 4 he prep fired at K4, causing a 1MC. As luck would have it, I rolled HOB. Of course, also as luck would have it, I rolled a 7 (+3 for axis minor allies(as per SSR4) and surrendered !! Even worse, the one remaining squad on the west flank moved by assault movement in the jungle. I should have skulked back out of LOS, but wanted to move east a little, and figured that the 2|+2 shot from the one remaining Peruvian squad in the area was not going to be effective. Of course Paul proved me wrong. A snake eyes resulted in a NMC (1 +2, halved for cowering). I rolled a nine, breaking, ELRing, resulting in two disrupted half squads holding a flank. 20% of my force suddenly found themselves about to surrender. Pauls last turn saw him march my two surrendered half squads of the board with one guarding squad, giving him 6 VP, added to one squad already exited, for 8VP, plus all of the buildings for another 6 VP, giving him 14 VP. I tried mightly to use my one and a half squads and two leaders to stop the flood, but Paul was able to march enough Peruvians off to gain the win. Well done Paul !! A very good tight little scenario, with the advantage changing several times, and with a number of different options for both sides. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a quick tight game. It took us about 3 hours from set up to finish. Bill Brodie Canberra, Australia. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/41 - Release Date: 7/5/2005 From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 6 03:11:08 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 6 03:11:22 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: Misquoting (was: A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: <3740ed6615c3.42c3f323@broadpark.no> References: <3740ed6615c3.42c3f323@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <6banc1pha8i20ftfuvd7ibhkasirlkd4l2@4ax.com> Catching up on some e-mail from my unexpected blackout .... On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:26:59 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >2) You answered by telling me to finish the sentence I quoted and that I quoted out of context *and* you added a quote. Um, no. I think you got (more) confused somewhere in there. I finished the sentence with a summary (an accurate one, I might add) of the applicable rule, not a quote of the applicable rule. I don't know why you would think I was quoting the rulebook in the phrase I typed. I generally make my rules quotes very explicit and (I would hope) obvious. *Please* tell me you can tell the difference between someone making a quote and someone making a summary. If I discuss a rule and don't make it an explicit quote, then I'm summarising the rule for ease of understanding (or an actual quote won't fit the grammar of the sentence, or I'm too lazy to type out what someone else has *already* typed out -- which in this case, was you). That's pretty normal around these parts ... I don't know why you would get confused by this. >5 However, it turns out that you did exactly that. Not only that, but continue to act as if you was the one who should have an apology. From most other I would expect an apology now, but for some reason I don't think you'll give me one... That would probably be because, throughout this conversation, I'm not the one who's made any errors. >So, yes, I think it's time with an apology from you... I'd be happy to apologise if you could point out my error. The following is a SUMMARY of *my* understanding of the flow of the conversation: ME: Leaders directing fire are part of a firegroup, so they can't take advantage of Boresighting DRM. OLE: Not true, because leaders directing fire are *not* part of a FG, because they don't themselves fire. Quotes relevant rule, than summarises it, but in the summary leaves out an important condition, making the conclusion wrong. ME: Points out the above problem, providing a more accurate summary (NOT a quote!) of the relevant rule; also points out the other rule that says, very explicitly, that a leader directing fire is himself firing, so how can it be claimed that he isn't? OLE: Accuses me of telling big fat lies about what he typed, and apparently gets very upset. ME: Uh ... what? Now, perhaps your understanding of the flow of the conversation is somewhat different. I'm sorry if that's the case, but from where I'm sitting, you started off the conversation confused and then it rapidly got worse. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From pferraro at greenepa.net Wed Jul 6 03:29:55 2005 From: pferraro at greenepa.net (Paul Ferraro) Date: Wed Jul 6 03:29:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] admin stuff Message-ID: The list's hosting service had problems with all discussion lists yesterday - they went completely off-line. Eventually a restore was completed, dating from June 30. Some archive items from after that date may have been lost. You may resume the usual diatribe. ;-) Paul Ferraro From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 6 07:52:19 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 6 07:52:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print Message-ID: <8rrnc1d2qpj078n932h2oh3lt5081mvecs@4ax.com> Just so folks know: The 2nd ed. ASL Rules are back in print and "now shipping", according to MMP. The updated chapter dividers are not yet available for separate sale, but I expect it won't be too long. ASLSK #2 should be shipping by the end of the month. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From dreenstra at comcast.net Wed Jul 6 09:34:05 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jul 6 09:34:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Two rules questions Message-ID: <070620051634.11293.42CC07FC000E8A4800002C1D22007340760E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hello all, Jon writes: > Hi all > Thanks for the answer yesterday. > > I have two (unrelated) rules questions: > > 1) G.4 Detection: Does this apply to hidden, Stealthy DEFENDERS during the > Rout Phase i.e. may a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER elect to retain HIP Status if a > broken enemy unit routs into/through their Location? Nope, NRBH but I'm pretty sure G.4 specifies MPh, so it doesn't apply in either the RtPh or the APh. > > G.4 only seems to refer to entry during the MPh. However it would seem > strange that a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER can elect to remain HIP when a Good > Order enemy enters in the MPh, but is revealed if a Broken unit routs into > their Loc in the RtPh. Strange or not, if that's how the rule is written . . . > > 2) D13.32 Smoke Mortar: During its MPh an AFV with sM starts, moves to a new > hex that involves changing its VCA, then expends a Stop MP. It then > announces it will attempt to fire its sM. There is a +2 DRM to the sM usage > DR as the AFV is moving/Non-Stopped (C.8). > Does the Case A DRM also apply since the AFV has changed its CA during its > Movement, or does the Case A only apply if at the point of firing the AFV > changes its TCA/VCA? I'm pretty sure it is the latter. I'm not sure if this is specified in D13, seems I recall something in the Case A rule in Chapter C about Case A not applying during the MPh for BFF shots. Maybe that same rule also address it's application to sM usage? HtH, Dave Reenstra From dreenstra at comcast.net Wed Jul 6 11:03:19 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jul 6 11:04:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print Message-ID: <070620051803.9391.42CC1CE7000B63F5000024AF22058864420E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> What updates were done to the chapter dividers? Was errata incorporated? I thought this was just a reprint with no changes? Thanks, Dave Reenstra Bruce wrote: > Just so folks know: > > The 2nd ed. ASL Rules are back in print and "now shipping", according to MMP. > The updated chapter dividers are not yet available for separate sale, but I > expect it won't be too long. > > ASLSK #2 should be shipping by the end of the month. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Jul 6 11:18:26 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Wed Jul 6 11:20:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print Message-ID: Hi=2C Dave Reenstra wrote=3A =3E What updates were done to the chapter dividers=3F Was errata = =3E incorporated=3F I thought this was just a reprint with no changes=3F= =3E = No changes to the text pages=2C but numerous changes to the dividers=2C = which is why those are offered separately to those with the old v2 ruleb= ook=2E All official errata was incorporated=2C and many other fixes as w= ell=2E Many of them are lifted from my IIFT(M)QRDC so (un)fortunately=2C= those are not that much better than the official charts anymore =3B-) In addition to the official errata (from J3-J6)=2C the new corrections a= re the following (copied from Perry=27s post to consimworld)=3A The following official errata for the ASLRB 2nd Edition (errata almost e= ntirely devoted to the dividers) is being published online to accompany = the reprinting of the 2nd Edition=2E This errata will be included in ASL= Journal =237 when it is published later=2E The following divider errata=2C as well as all previously published divi= der errata for the 2nd Edition=2C has been incorporated into the divider= s in the reprinted ASLRB 2nd Edition=2E Sets of new dividers will be ava= ilable for separate purchase=2E Divider Errata (incorporated into reprinted dividers) A11=2E11 Close Combat Table (under CC FP or DR Modifiers) on the pink di= vider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC=3A o In the entry that begins =93by unpinned Gurkha=94 add =93armed=2C=94 b= efore =93unpinned=94 and delete =93(unless Ambushed)=94=2E o In the entry that begins =93by Dare-Death MMC=94 add =93armed=2C unpin= ned=94 before =93Dare-Death=94=2E A15=2E1 Heat of Battle Table on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gra= y QRDC=3A o Under *Treat as Battle Hardening add =93 or on a Pier=94 after =93Beac= h Location=94=2E o Under +Treat as Battle Hardening add =93Assaulting/Evacuating side in = a Beach Location or on a Pier (G14=2E32)=94=2E Support Weapons Chart on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC=3A= o Change note D to=3A =93D=2E Hero fires by adding 1 to MG IFT DR (using= full FP) or TH DR=94=2E o In the =93PF=2C PFk=94 line=2C remove note =93B=94 from the =931 IPC(2= PP Max) SMC=94 column=2E A12=2E21 Concealment LOSS/GAIN Table on the pink divider=3A o In line 1 of Case A in the EXC=2C replace =93all defenders=94 with =93= its target=94 and in the next line replace =93Bypass (A15=2E42)=94 with = =93Bypass (A12=2E42)=94=2E C3 To Hit Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC=3A o Chang= e =93* Gun=94=2C =93L Gun=94 and =93LL Gun=94 to =93* weapon=94=2C =93L = weapon=94 and =93LL weapon=94=2E C5 Firer-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on th= e blue-gray QRDC=3A o In case A add note =93S=94=2E o In Case B add =93(+3 if in woods/build= ing/rubble)=94=2E o In Cases C=2C C1=2C =26 C2 add note =93L=94=2E C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on t= he blue-gray QRDC=3A o In Case L after =93target=94 add =93/firer=94=2E = o In Case M delete note =93G=94=2E C7=2E34 HE =26 Flame To Kill Table on the blue divider and on the blue-g= ray QRDC=3A o Change =932=2C 3=2C 4=3A Only TK=23 Modifiers are=3A=94 to =932=2C 3=2C= 4=3A Only TK=23 Modifiers are +1 if Rear Target Facing =26 =3A=94=2E o In note 3 add =93+1/+2 Elevation adv=2E (C7=2E22)=3B =94=2E o In note 4 at end add =93=3Bdouble if CH=94=2E C7=2E7 AFV Destruction Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QR= DC=3A o In the =93FT/MOL=94 column in the =93=3D TK=23=94 row add note =93A=94= to the =93Elim=94 entry=2E A24 Smoke Summary chart on the green divider=3A o In the WP row replace = =93U=2ES=2E/British=94 with =93U=2ES=2E/British/Japanese/Chinese=94=3B i= n the Mild Breeze column delete note =93K=94=2E D2=2E5 Excessive Speed Breakdown DRM Table on the gray divider=3A o In t= he +1 row after =93Russian(r)=94 add =93=2C all Chinese=94=2E Rules Pages Errata C7=2E7 AFV Destruction Table=3A in the =93FT/MOL=94 column in the =93=3D= TK=23=94 row add note =93A=94 to the =93Elim=94 entry=2E D2=2E5 ESB DRM Table=3A in the =93+1=94 row after =93Russian(r)=94 add =93= =2C all Chinese=94=2E G18=2E62=3A line 3 before =93Dare-Death=94 add =93armed=2C unpinned=94=2E= From keith.dalton at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:59:42 2005 From: keith.dalton at gmail.com (keith dalton) Date: Wed Jul 6 11:59:46 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4e2cf5e00507061159202460f4@mail.gmail.com> Updated dividers will be available for sale soon for $16 plus shipping. Keith MMP On 7/6/05, Ole B?e wrote: > Hi, > > Dave Reenstra wrote: > > > What updates were done to the chapter dividers? Was errata > > incorporated? I thought this was just a reprint with no changes? > > > No changes to the text pages, but numerous changes to the dividers, which is why those are offered separately to those with the old v2 rulebook. All official errata was incorporated, and many other fixes as well. Many of them are lifted from my IIFT(M)QRDC so (un)fortunately, those are not that much better than the official charts anymore ;-) > > In addition to the official errata (from J3-J6), the new corrections are the following (copied from Perry's post to consimworld): > > The following official errata for the ASLRB 2nd Edition (errata almost entirely devoted to the dividers) is being published online to accompany the reprinting of the 2nd Edition. This errata will be included in ASL Journal #7 when it is published later. > > The following divider errata, as well as all previously published divider errata for the 2nd Edition, has been incorporated into the dividers in the reprinted ASLRB 2nd Edition. Sets of new dividers will be available for separate purchase. > > Divider Errata (incorporated into reprinted dividers) > > A11.11 Close Combat Table (under CC FP or DR Modifiers) on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o In the entry that begins "by unpinned Gurkha" add "armed," before "unpinned" and delete "(unless Ambushed)". > > o In the entry that begins "by Dare-Death MMC" add "armed, unpinned" before "Dare-Death". > > A15.1 Heat of Battle Table on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o Under *Treat as Battle Hardening add " or on a Pier" after "Beach Location". > > o Under +Treat as Battle Hardening add "Assaulting/Evacuating side in a Beach Location or on a Pier (G14.32)". > > Support Weapons Chart on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o Change note D to: "D. Hero fires by adding 1 to MG IFT DR (using full FP) or TH DR". > > o In the "PF, PFk" line, remove note "B" from the "1 IPC(2PP Max) SMC" column. > > A12.21 Concealment LOSS/GAIN Table on the pink divider: > > o In line 1 of Case A in the EXC, replace "all defenders" with "its target" and in the next line replace "Bypass (A15.42)" with "Bypass (A12.42)". > > C3 To Hit Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o Change "* Gun", "L Gun" and "LL Gun" to "* weapon", "L weapon" and "LL weapon". > > C5 Firer-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o In case A add note "S". o In Case B add "(+3 if in woods/building/rubble)". o In Cases C, C1, & C2 add note "L". > > > > C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o In Case L after "target" add "/firer". o In Case M delete note "G". > > C7.34 HE & Flame To Kill Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o Change "2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are:" to "2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are +1 if Rear Target Facing & :". > > o In note 3 add "+1/+2 Elevation adv. (C7.22); ". > > o In note 4 at end add ";double if CH". > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o In the "FT/MOL" column in the "= TK#" row add note "A" to the "Elim" entry. > > A24 Smoke Summary chart on the green divider: o In the WP row replace "U.S./British" with "U.S./British/Japanese/Chinese"; in the Mild Breeze column delete note "K". > > D2.5 Excessive Speed Breakdown DRM Table on the gray divider: o In the +1 row after "Russian(r)" add ", all Chinese". > > Rules Pages Errata > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table: in the "FT/MOL" column in the "= TK#" row add note "A" to the "Elim" entry. > > D2.5 ESB DRM Table: in the "+1" row after "Russian(r)" add ", all Chinese". > > G18.62: line 3 before "Dare-Death" add "armed, unpinned". > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From hofors at lysator.liu.se Wed Jul 6 16:13:00 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Wed Jul 6 16:13:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What happend to the Platoon Movement fixes? Regards, Mattias Ole B?e writes: > Hi, > > Dave Reenstra wrote: > > > What updates were done to the chapter dividers? Was errata > > incorporated? I thought this was just a reprint with no changes? > > > No changes to the text pages, but numerous changes to the dividers, which is why those are offered separately to those with the old v2 rulebook. All official errata was incorporated, and many other fixes as well. Many of them are lifted from my IIFT(M)QRDC so (un)fortunately, those are not that much better than the official charts anymore ;-) > > In addition to the official errata (from J3-J6), the new corrections are the following (copied from Perry's post to consimworld): > > The following official errata for the ASLRB 2nd Edition (errata almost entirely devoted to the dividers) is being published online to accompany the reprinting of the 2nd Edition. This errata will be included in ASL Journal #7 when it is published later. > > The following divider errata, as well as all previously published divider errata for the 2nd Edition, has been incorporated into the dividers in the reprinted ASLRB 2nd Edition. Sets of new dividers will be available for separate purchase. > > Divider Errata (incorporated into reprinted dividers) > > A11.11 Close Combat Table (under CC FP or DR Modifiers) on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o In the entry that begins ?by unpinned Gurkha? add ?armed,? before ?unpinned? and delete ?(unless Ambushed)?. > > o In the entry that begins ?by Dare-Death MMC? add ?armed, unpinned? before ?Dare-Death?. > > A15.1 Heat of Battle Table on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o Under *Treat as Battle Hardening add ? or on a Pier? after ?Beach Location?. > > o Under +Treat as Battle Hardening add ?Assaulting/Evacuating side in a Beach Location or on a Pier (G14.32)?. > > Support Weapons Chart on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > o Change note D to: ?D. Hero fires by adding 1 to MG IFT DR (using full FP) or TH DR?. > > o In the ?PF, PFk? line, remove note ?B? from the ?1 IPC(2PP Max) SMC? column. > > A12.21 Concealment LOSS/GAIN Table on the pink divider: > > o In line 1 of Case A in the EXC, replace ?all defenders? with ?its target? and in the next line replace ?Bypass (A15.42)? with ?Bypass (A12.42)?. > > C3 To Hit Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o Change ?* Gun?, ?L Gun? and ?LL Gun? to ?* weapon?, ?L weapon? and ?LL weapon?. > > C5 Firer-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o In case A add note ?S?. o In Case B add ?(+3 if in woods/building/rubble)?. o In Cases C, C1, & C2 add note ?L?. > > > > C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o In Case L after ?target? add ?/firer?. o In Case M delete note ?G?. > > C7.34 HE & Flame To Kill Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o Change ?2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are:? to ?2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are +1 if Rear Target Facing & :?. > > o In note 3 add ?+1/+2 Elevation adv. (C7.22); ?. > > o In note 4 at end add ?;double if CH?. > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > o In the ?FT/MOL? column in the ?= TK#? row add note ?A? to the ?Elim? entry. > > A24 Smoke Summary chart on the green divider: o In the WP row replace ?U.S./British? with ?U.S./British/Japanese/Chinese?; in the Mild Breeze column delete note ?K?. > > D2.5 Excessive Speed Breakdown DRM Table on the gray divider: o In the +1 row after ?Russian(r)? add ?, all Chinese?. > > Rules Pages Errata > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table: in the ?FT/MOL? column in the ?= TK#? row add note ?A? to the ?Elim? entry. > > D2.5 ESB DRM Table: in the ?+1? row after ?Russian(r)? add ?, all Chinese?. > > G18.62: line 3 before ?Dare-Death? add ?armed, unpinned?. > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 17:32:18 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Wed Jul 6 17:32:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <332a4d0305070617325e9f12fb@mail.gmail.com> should be out in the 4th ed. -Chuck On 07 Jul 2005 01:13:00 +0200, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: > What happend to the Platoon Movement fixes? > > Regards, > Mattias > > Ole B?e writes: > > > Hi, > > > > Dave Reenstra wrote: > > > > > What updates were done to the chapter dividers? Was errata > > > incorporated? I thought this was just a reprint with no changes? > > > > > No changes to the text pages, but numerous changes to the dividers, which is why those are offered separately to those with the old v2 rulebook. All official errata was incorporated, and many other fixes as well. Many of them are lifted from my IIFT(M)QRDC so (un)fortunately, those are not that much better than the official charts anymore ;-) > > > > In addition to the official errata (from J3-J6), the new corrections are the following (copied from Perry's post to consimworld): > > > > The following official errata for the ASLRB 2nd Edition (errata almost entirely devoted to the dividers) is being published online to accompany the reprinting of the 2nd Edition. This errata will be included in ASL Journal #7 when it is published later. > > > > The following divider errata, as well as all previously published divider errata for the 2nd Edition, has been incorporated into the dividers in the reprinted ASLRB 2nd Edition. Sets of new dividers will be available for separate purchase. > > > > Divider Errata (incorporated into reprinted dividers) > > > > A11.11 Close Combat Table (under CC FP or DR Modifiers) on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > > > o In the entry that begins "by unpinned Gurkha" add "armed," before "unpinned" and delete "(unless Ambushed)". > > > > o In the entry that begins "by Dare-Death MMC" add "armed, unpinned" before "Dare-Death". > > > > A15.1 Heat of Battle Table on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > > > o Under *Treat as Battle Hardening add " or on a Pier" after "Beach Location". > > > > o Under +Treat as Battle Hardening add "Assaulting/Evacuating side in a Beach Location or on a Pier (G14.32)". > > > > Support Weapons Chart on the pink divider and on the blue-and-gray QRDC: > > > > o Change note D to: "D. Hero fires by adding 1 to MG IFT DR (using full FP) or TH DR". > > > > o In the "PF, PFk" line, remove note "B" from the "1 IPC(2PP Max) SMC" column. > > > > A12.21 Concealment LOSS/GAIN Table on the pink divider: > > > > o In line 1 of Case A in the EXC, replace "all defenders" with "its target" and in the next line replace "Bypass (A15.42)" with "Bypass (A12.42)". > > > > C3 To Hit Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o Change "* Gun", "L Gun" and "LL Gun" to "* weapon", "L weapon" and "LL weapon". > > > > C5 Firer-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > > > o In case A add note "S". o In Case B add "(+3 if in woods/building/rubble)". o In Cases C, C1, & C2 add note "L". > > > > > > > > C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: o In Case L after "target" add "/firer". o In Case M delete note "G". > > > > C7.34 HE & Flame To Kill Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > > > o Change "2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are:" to "2, 3, 4: Only TK# Modifiers are +1 if Rear Target Facing & :". > > > > o In note 3 add "+1/+2 Elevation adv. (C7.22); ". > > > > o In note 4 at end add ";double if CH". > > > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table on the blue divider and on the blue-gray QRDC: > > > > o In the "FT/MOL" column in the "= TK#" row add note "A" to the "Elim" entry. > > > > A24 Smoke Summary chart on the green divider: o In the WP row replace "U.S./British" with "U.S./British/Japanese/Chinese"; in the Mild Breeze column delete note "K". > > > > D2.5 Excessive Speed Breakdown DRM Table on the gray divider: o In the +1 row after "Russian(r)" add ", all Chinese". > > > > Rules Pages Errata > > > > C7.7 AFV Destruction Table: in the "FT/MOL" column in the "= TK#" row add note "A" to the "Elim" entry. > > > > D2.5 ESB DRM Table: in the "+1" row after "Russian(r)" add ", all Chinese". > > > > G18.62: line 3 before "Dare-Death" add "armed, unpinned". > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From e4spm at hotmail.com Wed Jul 6 17:56:23 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Wed Jul 6 17:56:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Air burst & bypass Message-ID: If a unit is bypassing a forest and is hit by indirect fire is the unit subject to the air burst DRM? _________________________________________________________________ Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Wed Jul 6 18:05:34 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Wed Jul 6 18:07:44 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on divider errata Message-ID: > > C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider and on the > blue-gray QRDC: o In Case L after "target" add "/firer". o In Case M > delete note "G". > Does this mean a MMG/HMG firing as ordnance against an AFV may use the -2 Bore Sighting DRM. Looking at the text of the rules it seems one always has ben able to use Case M for MMG/HMG firing as ordnance. If so you learn something every day. Cheers Jon This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for use of the addressee.The confidentiality and/or privilege is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From e4spm at hotmail.com Wed Jul 6 18:23:29 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Wed Jul 6 18:23:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Leadership DRM & Fire Groups Message-ID: A leader is stacked with a squad manning an MG. The leader directs MG only FF against an enemy unit. The MG maintains ROF Is the leader marked with a FF counter? Later in the same Mph the squad and MG FF against an enemy unit. Can the leader direct this fire? David _________________________________________________________________ Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar From e4spm at hotmail.com Wed Jul 6 18:54:33 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Wed Jul 6 18:54:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Pillbox, Advance & Dummy Units Message-ID: Assuming there are no enemy units in the hex containing a pillbox can a unit advance from a pillbox to an adjacent hex? From the adjacent hex into the pillbox? Is a broken enemy unit in an open ground hex adjacent to a pillbox containing a unit forced to rout because of the unit in the pillbox. Do the restrictions for an enemy unit entering a pillbox apply when the units in the pillbox are not known? e.g. can an enemy unit in the same hex as a pillbox containing dummy units attempt to advance into he pillbox? David _________________________________________________________________ Low rate ANZ MasterCard. Apply now! http://clk.atdmt.com/MAU/go/msnnkanz0030000006mau/direct/01/ Must be over 18 years. From sidirezegh at charter.net Wed Jul 6 19:01:12 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:01:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Air burst & bypass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42CC8CE8.4060606@charter.net> Yes, because you are technically in the woods *hex*, per B13.3: B13.3: Air Bursts: There is a +1 TEM for all Direct Fire into a woods hex. All Indirect Fire vs unarmored, CE, or OT (even if BU) targets in a woods hex receives a-1 TEM instead, due to the added lethality of Air Bursts. Regards, Chas David Marvanek wrote: > If a unit is bypassing a forest and is hit by indirect fire is the > unit subject to the air burst DRM? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au > http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From swfancher at mindspring.com Wed Jul 6 19:12:10 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:12:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vehicle notes for Sturmtiger Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> Listers, Getting ready to play J100 For A Few Rounds More and was wondering if there were vehicle notes for the Sturmtiger somewhere that I am missing? Thanks much in advance! Seth From swfancher at mindspring.com Wed Jul 6 19:16:40 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:26:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Leadership DRM & Fire Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706221505.033be760@mindspring.com> Hi David, Answering "on the fly" here, so take with a grain of salt.... At 09:23 PM 7/6/2005, David Marvanek wrote: >A leader is stacked with a squad manning an MG. >The leader directs MG only FF against an enemy unit. >The MG maintains ROF > >Is the leader marked with a FF counter? Neither MG nor leader would be marked D1F...although a FG has been formed. >Later in the same Mph the squad and MG FF against an enemy unit. > >Can the leader direct this fire? No, because additional units are being added to the FG formed by the leader and the MG. For the leader to direct, only the MG could fire again. >David > >_________________________________________________________________ >Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au >http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From swfancher at mindspring.com Wed Jul 6 19:26:25 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:26:30 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Pillbox, Advance & Dummy Units In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706221643.033be330@mindspring.com> Hi David...as before, on the fly, so tread cautiously.... At 09:54 PM 7/6/2005, David Marvanek wrote: >Assuming there are no enemy units in the hex containing a pillbox >can a unit advance from a pillbox to an adjacent hex? From the >adjacent hex into the pillbox? The pillbox is a separate Location within the hex. I believe that a unit must be in the hex already to move into the Pillbox, and similarly a unit advancing out must stop in the PB hex, but outside the PB. >Is a broken enemy unit in an open ground hex adjacent to a pillbox >containing a unit forced to rout because of the unit in the pillbox. If in normal range and LOS then yes. However, since I don't think the Locations are ADJACENT, no if the OG hex is in the PB NCA, and not in normal range/LOS/OG from another unit. >Do the restrictions for an enemy unit entering a pillbox apply when >the units in the pillbox are not known? e.g. can an enemy unit in >the same hex as a pillbox containing dummy units attempt to advance >into he pillbox? You cannot enter the PB while enemy Infantry are inside. I would say that, like any other situation, you could attempt to enter and strip concealment (similar to a Fortified building Location). In any event, Dummies would be revealed and eliminated at the start of the CCPh since CC is "normal" between units inside and outside the PB. Hope this helped! Be well. Seth From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 19:43:57 2005 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:44:02 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vehicle notes for Sturmtiger In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <2b8228f005070619433a987d96@mail.gmail.com> Seth, You can find the Sturmtiger note on page Z35 of the Operation Veritable (aka Riley's Road) rules. On 7/6/05, Seth W Fancher wrote: > Listers, > > Getting ready to play J100 For A Few Rounds More and was wondering if > there were vehicle notes for the Sturmtiger somewhere that I am missing? > > Thanks much in advance! > > Seth > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From davidridley at idx.com.au Wed Jul 6 20:05:56 2005 From: davidridley at idx.com.au (david wilson) Date: Wed Jul 6 20:06:03 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB Message-ID: <42CC9C14.1010908@idx.com.au> I'm begging, nay pleading with the good chaps at MMP. FINISH off OoB and get it out, the Allies managed to finish off the Japanese and Germans in less time than it's taken to get this module out. I've grown old and bent waiting and half the gamers have moved onto Euro trash games. I'm begging you....................please please................. Cheerio DW From asl at howardhowardfine.com Wed Jul 6 20:54:04 2005 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Wed Jul 6 20:54:11 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vehicle notes for Sturmtiger In-Reply-To: <2b8228f005070619433a987d96@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> <2b8228f005070619433a987d96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050706225253.0395c2b0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Or you can go to my web site and download an AFV card for same. www.howardhowardfine.com/asl c At 09:43 PM 06/07/2005, M Rodgers wrote: >Seth, > >You can find the Sturmtiger note on page Z35 of the Operation >Veritable (aka Riley's Road) rules. > >On 7/6/05, Seth W Fancher wrote: > > Listers, > > > > Getting ready to play J100 For A Few Rounds More and was wondering if > > there were vehicle notes for the Sturmtiger somewhere that I am missing? > > > > Thanks much in advance! > > > > Seth > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > > >-- >Michael Rodgers >Montreal >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From oleboe at broadpark.no Thu Jul 7 00:13:43 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Thu Jul 7 00:15:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print Message-ID: <397aa37075.42ccf247@broadpark.no> Hi, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: > What happend to the Platoon Movement fixes? > They were never planned to be included in the ASLRB reprint. The intention was to include them in AoO or possibly a Journal. The rewrite has been in MMP's hands for some months now, and AFAIK they still intend to print them, whether it's in AoO or a Journal or somewhere else... From oleboe at broadpark.no Thu Jul 7 00:17:33 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Thu Jul 7 00:19:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: ASL: Question on divider errata Message-ID: <4f117de65.42ccf32d@broadpark.no> Hi, Cole, Jonathan wrote: > > C6 Target-Based Hit Determination DRM Table on the blue divider > > and on the > > blue-gray QRDC: o In Case L after "target" add "/firer". o In > > Case M delete note "G". > > > > Does this mean a MMG/HMG firing as ordnance against an AFV may use > the -2 Bore Sighting DRM. > > Looking at the text of the rules it seems one always has ben able > to use Case M for MMG/HMG firing as ordnance. If so you learn something > every day. > This is correct. This is among the errata copied from my IIFT(M)QRDC, where one of my notes says: "Case M is applicable to MG's as well as mortars, so having a G note here is incorrect." From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 7 00:30:27 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 7 00:30:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 07 Jul 2005 01:13:00 +0200, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: >What happend to the Platoon Movement fixes? Nothing yet, so far as I know. What does that have to do with the 2nd ed. reprint? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 7 00:35:47 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 7 00:35:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on divider errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7pmpc1laikp10uisqiifbs4qg84pf455tb@4ax.com> On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:05:34 +0800 , "Cole, Jonathan" wrote: >Does this mean a MMG/HMG firing as ordnance against an AFV may use the -2 >Bore Sighting DRM. Sure. Why not? >Looking at the text of the rules it seems one always has ben able to use >Case M for MMG/HMG firing as ordnance. If so you learn something every day. There you go. The updated dividers have helped at least one person! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 7 00:44:15 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 7 00:44:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Leadership DRM & Fire Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:53:29 +0930, "David Marvanek" wrote: >A leader is stacked with a squad manning an MG. >The leader directs MG only FF against an enemy unit. >The MG maintains ROF > >Is the leader marked with a FF counter? Umm ... did you subscribe to the ASLML like, today? Because this was debated to death JUST LAST WEEK. Ahem ... The answer to your question is "maybe, but it doesn't really matter"; the reason why it doesn't matter is that A10.6 allows the leader to continue directing the ROF of the SW regardless of how the leader is marked. Practically speaking, it's simpler to just not bother marking the leader until the MG loses ROF. >Later in the same Mph the squad and MG FF against an enemy unit. > >Can the leader direct this fire? No, because by adding the squad you have formed a new FG. A leader may not direct the fire of different FG within the same phase. A7.53. Note that the reverse *is* allowed: the leader could first direct the squad and the MG, and then continue directing the MG's ROF alone. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From davidridley at idx.com.au Thu Jul 7 05:09:01 2005 From: davidridley at idx.com.au (david wilson) Date: Thu Jul 7 05:08:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vasl problem. Message-ID: <42CD1B5D.2070302@idx.com.au> greetings all, I'm having a little trouble with vasl right now, using vassal 2.04 and vasl 4.1.8 and the GT map board, every time I go to use the vehicle tray an untrapped error occurs and the game locks, any ideas? Also I have vasl 5 loaded but cannot find the LVC counters. Also when loading the GT game which my opponent setup using VASL4 his concealment markers load on as a blank counter. Any hints? Dave "scratching my head" Wilson From keith.dalton at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 06:07:15 2005 From: keith.dalton at gmail.com (keith dalton) Date: Thu Jul 7 06:07:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Rules back in print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4e2cf5e00507070607276c55da@mail.gmail.com> No errata were incorporated into the actual rulebook pages. Changes were made to dividers only. The index addition mentioned provides all errata released up until that point. Keith On 7/7/05, Bruce Probst wrote: > On 07 Jul 2005 01:13:00 +0200, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: > > >What happend to the Platoon Movement fixes? > > Nothing yet, so far as I know. What does that have to do with the 2nd ed. > reprint? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Finally we meet, sack of mucous." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From blueistheonlycolour at hotmail.com Thu Jul 7 06:34:59 2005 From: blueistheonlycolour at hotmail.com (blue istheonlycolour) Date: Thu Jul 7 06:35:01 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Last Bid: VASL PBEmail Request Message-ID: Hi, Anyone interested in attempting the Last Bid using VASL PBEmail? If so please contact me. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 7 06:56:16 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 7 06:56:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vasl problem. In-Reply-To: <42CD1B5D.2070302@idx.com.au> References: <42CD1B5D.2070302@idx.com.au> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707084844.01c8a900@pop3.direcway.com> At 07:09 AM 7/7/2005, david wilson wrote: >greetings all, I'm having a little trouble with vasl right now, using >vassal 2.04 and vasl 4.1.8 and the GT map board, every time I go to use >the vehicle tray an untrapped error occurs and the game locks, any ideas? This is a known problem, if you are using the VASSAL entry point. You must use the VASL icon to enter..do not use the VASSAL entry. 2.04 does not play nice with VASL 4.0. >Also I have vasl 5 loaded but cannot find the LVC counters. Yep looks like ya have to use the LCVP counters... >Also when loading the GT game which my opponent setup using VASL4 his >concealment markers load on as a blank counter. >Any hints? Hmm..was there a mod that gave you the GT toys in 4.0? If so they haven't made it into 5.0 and the 4.0 mods don't work in 5.0... ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 7 07:16:01 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 7 07:16:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL 5 errors Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707091319.01c8a528@pop3.direcway.com> Listoids, Seem to be getting this a lot, anyone else? : javaw.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience. AppName: javaw.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: jvm.dll ModVer: 1.4.2.60 Offset: 00002515 For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 09:16:16 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:16:22 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Leadership DRM & Fire Groups Message-ID: <070720051616.1587.42CD554F000ECBB90000063322058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Just goes to show you how much everyone tunes out when the Bruces, Tate and Ole really get rolling on a topic. FWIW, I'd play it as "No" and "Yes", but that's just how I've always played it, I don't have any rules to support my way of thinking. And let's just leave it at that. HtH, Dave Reenstra > A leader is stacked with a squad manning an MG. > The leader directs MG only FF against an enemy unit. > The MG maintains ROF > > Is the leader marked with a FF counter? > > Later in the same Mph the squad and MG FF against an enemy unit. > > Can the leader direct this fire? > > David > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au > http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From robertthepastor at juno.com Thu Jul 7 09:14:41 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:16:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] My condolences Message-ID: <20050707.091447.3100.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, I just read that *four* bombs just exploded in London, England, and a Muslim group is claiming responsibility. To all of the people in the UK, my most sincere condolences for this horrible act. My thoughts and a pray go out to you! Most respectfully and in Jesus, Robert Hammond From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 09:18:44 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:18:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Leadership DRM & Fire Groups Message-ID: <070720051618.5544.42CD55E40003360C000015A822058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Oops, Seth is right, not enough coffee for me this morning. Change my previous answer to "No" and "No", for the reasons Seth stated. Dave Reenstra > Hi David, > > Answering "on the fly" here, so take with a grain of salt.... > > At 09:23 PM 7/6/2005, David Marvanek wrote: > >A leader is stacked with a squad manning an MG. > >The leader directs MG only FF against an enemy unit. > >The MG maintains ROF > > > >Is the leader marked with a FF counter? > > Neither MG nor leader would be marked D1F...although a FG has been formed. > > > >Later in the same Mph the squad and MG FF against an enemy unit. > > > >Can the leader direct this fire? > > No, because additional units are being added to the FG formed by the > leader and the MG. For the leader to direct, only the MG could fire again. > > > >David > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Sell your car for $9 on carpoint.com.au > >http://www.carpoint.com.au/sellyourcar > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 09:23:16 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:23:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB Message-ID: <070720051623.12855.42CD56F40007B2230000323722058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> What the hell is OOB? Dave Reenstra > I'm begging, nay pleading with the good chaps at MMP. FINISH off OoB and > get it out, the Allies managed to finish off the Japanese and Germans in > less time than it's taken to get this module out. > I've grown old and bent waiting and half the gamers have moved onto Euro > trash games. > I'm begging you....................please please................. > Cheerio > DW > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 09:32:07 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:32:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB In-Reply-To: <42CC9C14.1010908@idx.com.au> References: <42CC9C14.1010908@idx.com.au> Message-ID: <332a4d0305070709323b5ec434@mail.gmail.com> do you mean AoO? -CT On 7/6/05, david wilson wrote: > I'm begging, nay pleading with the good chaps at MMP. FINISH off OoB and > get it out, the Allies managed to finish off the Japanese and Germans in > less time than it's taken to get this module out. > I've grown old and bent waiting and half the gamers have moved onto Euro > trash games. > I'm begging you....................please please................. > Cheerio > DW > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 7 09:37:44 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:37:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB Message-ID: <43vthu$10l54dj@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> It's the new Anus Minor module, Orifices of Buttholes. Regards, Chas "Butt Steak" Argent > > From: dreenstra@comcast.net > Date: 2005/07/07 Thu PM 12:23:16 EDT > To: david wilson , > asl mmp mailing list > Subject: Re: [Aslml] OOB > > What the hell is OOB? > > Dave Reenstra > > > > I'm begging, nay pleading with the good chaps at MMP. FINISH off OoB and > > get it out, the Allies managed to finish off the Japanese and Germans in > > less time than it's taken to get this module out. > > I've grown old and bent waiting and half the gamers have moved onto Euro > > trash games. > > I'm begging you....................please please................. > > Cheerio > > DW > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 7 09:46:08 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:46:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114512.01e6e8f8@pop3.direcway.com> At 11:23 AM 7/7/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: >What the hell is OOB? Probably Order Of Battle, which would include AoO and Hawka Paluggie... For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 7 09:48:16 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 7 09:48:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] StratZone Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114650.01e6e668@pop3.direcway.com> Listers, Anyone else having troubles getting on the Warforum/Stratzone today? :( ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From pzchala at hotmail.com Thu Jul 7 11:10:56 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Thu Jul 7 11:10:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] StratZone In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114650.01e6e668@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: Yes. I was unable to get on this morning. >From: ron mosher >To: "aslml-aslml.net@lists" >Subject: [Aslml] StratZone >Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:48:16 -0500 > >Listers, > >Anyone else having troubles getting on the Warforum/Stratzone today? :( > > >ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 11:23:05 2005 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Thu Jul 7 11:23:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] StratZone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050707182305.42481.qmail@web30711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nope, just got on and off. Been doing it all AM.... --- Michael Pierzchala wrote: > Yes. I was unable to get on this morning. > > >From: ron mosher > >To: "aslml-aslml.net@lists" > >Subject: [Aslml] StratZone > >Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:48:16 -0500 > > > >Listers, > > > >Anyone else having troubles getting on the Warforum/Stratzone today? :( > > > > > >ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From homercles11 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 7 11:43:48 2005 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Thu Jul 7 11:43:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114512.01e6e8f8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: and the rare vehicles pack! Paul Kenny Owner of Fanatic Enterprises makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids Check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ ----Original Message Follows---- From: ron mosher To: dreenstra@comcast.net, david wilson ,asl mmp mailing list Subject: Re: [Aslml] OOB Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:46:08 -0500 At 11:23 AM 7/7/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: >What the hell is OOB? Probably Order Of Battle, which would include AoO and Hawka Paluggie... For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 7 12:39:24 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 7 12:39:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OOB In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114512.01e6e8f8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707143823.01c38858@pop3.direcway.com> At 01:43 PM 7/7/2005, Paul Kenny wrote: >and the rare vehicles pack! Yep, and I feel bad about that! Was deleted from AoO to hurry the AoO pub up...chuckle. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From tsharp1948 at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 14:52:32 2005 From: tsharp1948 at comcast.net (Tom and Sandy Sharp) Date: Thu Jul 7 14:58:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL5 and Old Presets Message-ID: <000701c5833e$2e0f68e0$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> Group, I have been getting blank solid colored counters again with old presets while using VASL 5. The counters seem to be ok with old saved games from VASL 4. I have the VASL4.mdx file in a folder that VASL 5 has been directed to. What gives? Thanks Tom From danielzucker at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 15:13:30 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Thu Jul 7 15:23:02 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL5 and Old Presets References: <000701c5833e$2e0f68e0$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> Message-ID: <011701c58342$6bc4b1a0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I have the same problem Daniel > Group, > I have been getting blank solid colored counters again with old presets > while using VASL 5. The counters seem to be ok with old saved games from > VASL 4. I have the VASL4.mdx file in a folder that VASL 5 has been > directed to. What gives? Thanks > Tom From danielzucker at comcast.net Thu Jul 7 15:01:16 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Thu Jul 7 16:11:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Last Bid: VASL PBEmail Request References: Message-ID: <007d01c58340$a3bc9d40$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I'd like to try it _BUT_ I got to fix my VASL 5 problems first Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "blue istheonlycolour" To: Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Aslml] Last Bid: VASL PBEmail Request > Hi, > > Anyone interested in attempting the Last Bid using VASL PBEmail? If so > please contact me. > > Thanks > > _________________________________________________________________ > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Thu Jul 7 18:19:53 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Thu Jul 7 17:21:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] My condolences In-Reply-To: <20050707.091447.3100.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20050707.091447.3100.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <42CDD4B9.1070402@dial.pipex.com> Robert M Hammond wrote: > Listers, > > I just read that *four* bombs just exploded in London, England, and a > Muslim group is claiming responsibility. To all of the people in the UK, > my most sincere condolences for this horrible act. My thoughts and a > pray go out to you! Don't know how many UK members there are on list, but since nobody else has responded, just wanted to say thanks to Robert on behalf of the Brits for thinking of us at this time. Unfortunately we are used to this stuff in a way - the '80s were bad for terrorism in the UK - but it's been a while, and everyone is very shocked. I'm aware that this is not what this list is about, so now I will but not before saying thanks again. am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From richard at domibia.com Thu Jul 7 11:11:54 2005 From: richard at domibia.com (Richard Gazley) Date: Thu Jul 7 17:45:26 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: AAR - MP7 Guerra En La Selva References: <42CB4702.3020209@actewagl.net.au> Message-ID: I'm drawing a complete blank here... what scenarios are designated "MP"? I'm asking because this sounds interesting and I'd like to get my hands on it. From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 7 17:48:47 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 7 17:49:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: AAR - MP7 Guerra En La Selva In-Reply-To: References: <42CB4702.3020209@actewagl.net.au> Message-ID: <42CDCD6F.4000707@charter.net> Melee Pack-two scenario packs released by the Southern California ASL Club. A 3rd is in play test. You can get them here: http://www.socalasl.com/ Regards, Chas Richard Gazley wrote: >I'm drawing a complete blank here... what scenarios are designated "MP"? I'm >asking because this sounds interesting and I'd like to get my hands on it. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > From thunderchief at ozemail.com.au Thu Jul 7 18:06:31 2005 From: thunderchief at ozemail.com.au (Adam Lunney) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:06:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: AAR - MP7 Guerra En La Selva References: <42CB4702.3020209@actewagl.net.au> <42CDCD6F.4000707@charter.net> Message-ID: <02ea01c58359$49f1d280$0201010a@yourfulkl1oh2q> They're released at ASLOK, will this be a third year running for the SoCal MP packs? :-) Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chas Argent" To: "Richard Gazley" Cc: Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] Re: AAR - MP7 Guerra En La Selva > Melee Pack-two scenario packs released by the Southern California ASL > Club. A 3rd is in play test. > > You can get them here: > > http://www.socalasl.com/ > > Regards, > Chas > > > > Richard Gazley wrote: > >>I'm drawing a complete blank here... what scenarios are designated "MP"? >>I'm >>asking because this sounds interesting and I'd like to get my hands on it. >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >>Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >>http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >>To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From swfancher at mindspring.com Thu Jul 7 18:30:00 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:30:23 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Last Bid: VASL PBEmail Request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050707212750.023a8b30@mindspring.com> Well, I am a glutton for punishment, and was actually contemplating trying to start up RB CGIII on VASL PBEM, so this could be "RB CG Lite." :-) Drop me a line directly if you haven't lined someone up already - you can reach me during the day at work - swfancher@statestreet.com. I usually only have access to this email address at night, and occasionally on the weekends. Seth At 09:34 AM 7/7/2005, blue istheonlycolour wrote: >Hi, > >Anyone interested in attempting the Last Bid using VASL PBEmail? If >so please contact me. > >Thanks > >_________________________________________________________________ >Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free >newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From swfancher at mindspring.com Thu Jul 7 18:27:32 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:30:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Vehicle notes for Sturmtiger In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050706220830.033a0280@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050707212701.023b74d0@mindspring.com> Thanks to all who responded! I am all set and loaded for bear now!!!!! Seth At 10:12 PM 7/6/2005, Seth W Fancher wrote: >Listers, > >Getting ready to play J100 For A Few Rounds More and was wondering >if there were vehicle notes for the Sturmtiger somewhere that I am missing? > >Thanks much in advance! > >Seth >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From cwillmer1 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 19:28:25 2005 From: cwillmer1 at earthlink.net (Charlie Willmer) Date: Thu Jul 7 19:28:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Malf'd or X'd by Non-qualified Infantry Message-ID: <001001c58364$b852f5a0$0600a8c0@Neodad> A Gun manned by non-qualified infantry rolled an 11 on the TH roll. Is it malf'd or x'd? Jim and I both have a brain lock on this one. Thanks, Charlie From davidridley at idx.com.au Thu Jul 7 19:41:12 2005 From: davidridley at idx.com.au (david wilson) Date: Thu Jul 7 19:41:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] AoO Message-ID: <42CDE7C8.5060201@idx.com.au> All I can say is Duh!!! AoO it is. From nugteren at aanet.com.au Thu Jul 7 19:48:33 2005 From: nugteren at aanet.com.au (Andrew Nugteren) Date: Thu Jul 7 19:50:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: StratZone References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114650.01e6e668@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: ron mosher writes: > > Listers, > > Anyone else having troubles getting on the Warforum/Stratzone today? :( > > ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. Ron... are you still having problems? Have found out via the hosting company that apparently there was a router failure in California that was probably responsible for the trouble. And even if you are not in California, your IP address is CA-based so perhaps your connection is being routed via an indirect route. Andrew From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Thu Jul 7 20:42:35 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Thu Jul 7 20:44:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on A12.15 Detection Message-ID: Greetings Another detection question A10.533 says that when a broken unit attempts to rout into a Location occupied by a concealed enemy unit, at least one enemy unit (determined by Random Selection) loses concealment to bounce the routing unit back. However the higher numbered rule A12.14 says LOS from a Good Order unit is required to cause concealment/HIP loss. My question is suppose a broken unit routs into a Location containing a concealed enemy unit, and no Good order friendly unit has a LOS to that Location. Does the enemy unit keep concealment? If so can the routing unit either end its rout in that Location or continue routing through that Location (if otherwise able, eg adjacent woods/building)? Same question but the enemy unit is HIP. TIA for thoughts/comments. Cheers Jon This e-mail and files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 03:53:36 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Fri Jul 8 03:53:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] gmail Message-ID: <332a4d030507080353b8d8bb@mail.gmail.com> All - If anyone would like a Gmail account, please email me off list. I have 50 invites to pass out. -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From rjmosher at direcway.com Fri Jul 8 07:28:41 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Fri Jul 8 07:29:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: StratZone In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050707114650.01e6e668@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708092810.01c810f8@pop3.direcway.com> At 09:48 PM 7/7/2005, Andrew Nugteren wrote: >are you still having problems? Nope, thanks for checking....took over 12 hours to get it fixed... :( ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From gd891 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 08:29:21 2005 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd) Date: Fri Jul 8 08:29:22 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: StratZone In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708092810.01c810f8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: Ron writes: > > At 09:48 PM 7/7/2005, Andrew Nugteren wrote: > >are you still having problems? > > Nope, thanks for checking....took over 12 hours to get it fixed... :( Yea, but compare that to how long you've been waiting for AoO and it's a relative blink-of-an-eye..... Greg Stirring up trouble on Friday. From StevenPleva at earthlink.net Fri Jul 8 12:46:14 2005 From: StevenPleva at earthlink.net (Steven Pleva) Date: Fri Jul 8 12:46:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Condolences In-Reply-To: <20050708190626.6E2B61BA85@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <009a01c583f5$b379b050$6401a8c0@GorGorBig> I apologize for not speaking up sooner... My thoughts and prayers go out to you guys in the UK. Senseless loss of life is always troubling. Since I feel a certain kinship with all of the Commonwealth nations my sorrow for you is magnified. The Brits are tough and I know that you will recover well enough, but that doesn't mean it will be easy. Just know that you have friends on this side of the big pond. God bless! Steve From pzchala at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 13:34:41 2005 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Fri Jul 8 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Malf'd or X'd by Non-qualified Infantry In-Reply-To: <001001c58364$b852f5a0$0600a8c0@Neodad> Message-ID: >A Gun manned by non-qualified infantry rolled an 11 on the TH roll. Is it >malf'd or x'd? Jim and I both have a brain lock on this one. > >Thanks, > >Charlie NRBH, but I believe that non-qualified lowers the B# by 2, and the orignal B# becomes an X#. So a B12 gun becomes a B10, X12, which would be a malf in your question. Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From rjmosher at direcway.com Fri Jul 8 14:13:58 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Fri Jul 8 14:14:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] St. Louis ASL Club 8th Annual ASL Tournament Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050708161204.01c89750@pop3.direcway.com> Just a heads-up... Remember: St. Louis Advanced Squad Leader Club (STLASLC) 8th Annual ASL Tournament 29-31 July 2005 St. Louis, Missouri All attendees...the Hotel has graciously opened the war-room in the Friday AM for our use for pick-up games....thanks to the gracious manager Cindy and her esteemed husband, what's his name. Where: Best Western Kirkwood Inn, St. Louis, Missouri Be there or be square(sounds of the '60s, they tell me!) ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 15:05:52 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 8 15:05:55 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on A12.15 Detection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >A10.533 says that when a broken unit attempts to rout into a Location >occupied by a concealed enemy unit, at least one enemy unit (determined by >Random Selection) loses concealment to bounce the routing unit back. > >However the higher numbered rule A12.14 says LOS from a Good Order unit is >required to cause concealment/HIP loss. Yes, but notice the initial sentence of A12.15...?-loss can *also* be caused by attempted enemy movement -- and note there is no GO limitation/requirement on that. The routing unit is basically using a form of movement, allowing the A10.533 rule to be seperate from A12.14. >My question is suppose a broken unit routs into a Location containing a >concealed enemy unit, and no Good order friendly unit has a LOS to that >Location. Does the enemy unit keep concealment? If so can the routing unit >either end its rout in that Location or continue routing through that >Location (if otherwise able, eg adjacent woods/building)? No, it would lose ?. NA. >Same question but the enemy unit is HIP. Same answer, even in the PTO (since RtPh isn't the MPh...which is the G.4 requirement to retain HIP). Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 15:10:46 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 8 15:10:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Malf'd or X'd by Non-qualified Infantry In-Reply-To: <001001c58364$b852f5a0$0600a8c0@Neodad> Message-ID: >A Gun manned by non-qualified infantry rolled an 11 on the TH roll. Is it >malf'd or x'd? Jim and I both have a brain lock on this one. The non-q'ed INF drop the B#/X# by 2 and change any original B# to an X#; A.11 and A21.13. So if the original B# is a 12 (C2.28) then that Gun becomes a B10/X12 Gun...and would indeed Malf on an 11 DR. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 15:25:02 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 8 15:25:03 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Pillbox, Advance & Dummy Units In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Assuming there are no enemy units in the hex containing a pillbox can a >unit advance from a pillbox to an adjacent hex? From the adjacent hex into >the pillbox? No to both; B30.4, see the EX. Also, this old Q&A: B30.6 Can a unit advance out of a pillbox to an adjacent hex or vice versa? A. No [EXC: Bunkers]. [An97; Mw] >Is a broken enemy unit in an open ground hex adjacent to a pillbox >containing a unit forced to rout because of the unit in the pillbox. Yes, if in CA of the PB and the PB-occupant is Known, armed, and unbroken. Old Q&A: B30.2 May a pillbox occupant use FPF against a moving enemy unit in an adjacent ground-level Location within the pillbox's CA even though those two units are not ADJACENT? A. Yes – and the attack would be considered PBF (as would an attack from that adjacent Location versus the pillbox occupant). In addition, if that enemy unit starts the RtPh broken in the same hex, it would also be subject to DM and forced to rout (assuming the pillbox occupant is Known, armed and unbroken). [An93a; An95w; An96; Mw] >Do the restrictions for an enemy unit entering a pillbox apply when the >units in the pillbox are not known? e.g. can an enemy unit in the same hex >as a pillbox containing dummy units attempt to advance into he pillbox? Detection (A12.15) applies normally. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 15:29:56 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 8 15:29:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Two rules questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >1) G.4 Detection: Does this apply to hidden, Stealthy DEFENDERS during the >Rout Phase i.e. may a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER elect to retain HIP Status if a >broken enemy unit routs into/through their Location? No...the routing unit will reveal the HIPster since it is *not* the MPh. >G.4 only seems to refer to entry during the MPh. However it would seem >strange that a HIP Stealthy DEFENDER can elect to remain HIP when a Good >Order enemy enters in the MPh, but is revealed if a Broken unit routs into >their Loc in the RtPh. Yes, yet another of the convoluted ASL-Physics... >2) D13.32 Smoke Mortar: During its MPh an AFV with sM starts, moves to a >new >hex that involves changing its VCA, then expends a Stop MP. It then >announces it will attempt to fire its sM. There is a +2 DRM to the sM usage >DR as the AFV is moving/Non-Stopped (C.8). >Does the Case A DRM also apply since the AFV has changed its CA during its >Movement, or does the Case A only apply if at the point of firing the AFV >changes its TCA/VCA? Case A will only apply if the CA-change is made as part of (at the point of, as you say) the sM shot. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From hellcatcom at mindspring.com Fri Jul 8 09:39:03 2005 From: hellcatcom at mindspring.com (J. R. Tracy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:30:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Craig's Sturmtiger player aid Message-ID: <3712953.1120840743590.JavaMail.root@wamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey, thanks Craig for the nifty Sturmtiger card on your website (re-posted below). We used it last night in J100 A Few Rounds More. Very handy - we're only halfway through the scenario, AAR to follow. JR Craig's site is here: http://www.howardhowardfine.com/asl/ From lvbehar at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 18:09:19 2005 From: lvbehar at yahoo.com (Victor Behar) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:30:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: VASL5 and Old Presets References: <000701c5833e$2e0f68e0$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> <011701c58342$6bc4b1a0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> Message-ID: daniel zucker writes: > > I have the same problem > > Daniel> Yeah I suspect it's because the old vasl presets predate vasl 4. I understand a labor of love is ongoing to generate new presets for 5. Patience grasshoppa. Victor From jital at charter.net Fri Jul 8 18:54:10 2005 From: jital at charter.net (Jeff Ital) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:46:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] A74 'Valhalla Bound' SSRs References: Message-ID: <000601c58429$19fe02d0$6401a8c0@screamin> Listerz, I'm cross-posting this from the SZO forums Getting ready to play 'Valhalla Bound'. SSR 1 says to ignore the vehicular movement penalties for ground snow. OK, cool. SSR 3 says that he 'road movement bonus' is only available on the 4Q1-4FF5-11I5-11P8 Road, which is paved. Based on the above SSRs, would a CE vehicle be able to travel down any of the other roads at 1/2 MP? The 1/2 MP cost for a CE vehicle on a road is not a 'bonus', is it? Also, what about trucks; 1/2 MP on non-paved roads? I just want to be clear so I don't gak my setup. I take SSR 3 to just apply to infantry, but just want to be doubly sure. Thanks, __________________ Jeff Ital St. Louis, MO From tsharp1948 at comcast.net Sat Jul 9 16:40:36 2005 From: tsharp1948 at comcast.net (Tom and Sandy Sharp) Date: Sat Jul 9 16:46:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] re:old presets Message-ID: <000701c584df$9b9d5500$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> If the old presets won't work in VASL 5. How about loading them in VASL 4 (which they work in) and resave them over themselves. That would make them compatible with VASL 5. Be sure and save them with the *.vasl extension. Should work Tom From tsharp1948 at comcast.net Sat Jul 9 16:43:59 2005 From: tsharp1948 at comcast.net (Tom and Sandy Sharp) Date: Sat Jul 9 16:50:02 2005 Subject: [Aslml] old Presets Message-ID: <000701c584e0$143d4e70$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> HEY guys...it worked. Load the old presets in VASL 4. Save them over themselves with the *.vasl extension. Then will be ok in VASL 5. Saves a lot of time Tom From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Jul 9 18:52:17 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Jul 9 18:52:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Use of infantry smoke In-Reply-To: <2df3a03c3449.42c3b139@broadpark.no> References: <2df3a03c3449.42c3b139@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <1kv0d1p9psf81plb0gpjr72hfktj3b37cq@4ax.com> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:45:45 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >> If the stack was concealed does the whole stack lose concealment >> when laying smoke (assuming appropriate KEU in LOS, etc) or does only the >> squad lose concealment >Only the unit that actually performed the concealment loss action. The other units of the same stack only expends the MF, but expending MF is not a "?"-loss action when using AM. Unless the concealed stack were in Open Ground to begin with, of course. (EXC: Night) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Jul 9 19:13:44 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:13:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Escaped prisoners In-Reply-To: <002701c57d52$dd9a3bb0$152ca8c0@loungedining> References: <001b01c5798e$34f84550$b813c7d0@DGYPG541> <7g5sb1532o1gnula645rdk9r273ahct7sm@4ax.com> <002701c57d52$dd9a3bb0$152ca8c0@loungedining> Message-ID: <0rv0d1l22vestsabuhbhcrobji65ljlff8@4ax.com> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:05:29 +0100, "Martin Vicca" wrote: >Okay Bruce I agree with all you say here but consider this, What happens if >the guard is broken while in melee with another (enemy unit) do they >withdraw carrying their prisoners or are the prisoners released:ie.e brit >unit A guard prisoners B. They get jumped by german unit C. No result in the >CC ph and the prisoners do not attack their guards as at this point they are >neither broken nor in melee. At the end of the turn a melee ensues. Now the >prisoners do not newed a TC to attack their guards. A sniper attack breaks >the guard unit. The guard mustattempt to withdraw. The prisoners b and >german unit C attack the guard A. The attack fails to have any effect >(incidentally they roled a 12). The guard now withdraws. Do the prisoners >come with him? He is still in controll of them they are attacking him but >have not "escaped". If you treat them as SW then they should be taken.(I >know it's a bad analagy). What Scott said. It would be nice if the A11.16 exception were repeated in A20.55, because it's easily forgotten otherwise. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Jul 9 19:17:49 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:17:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Escaped prisoners In-Reply-To: References: <002701c57d52$dd9a3bb0$152ca8c0@loungedining> Message-ID: On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:55:30 -0700, "Scott Jackson" wrote: >Note that A20.5 says that the >only way for Prisoners to become ex-Prisoners is if their Guard is >eliminated. A20.55 expands this to allow Escaping Prisoners to attempt >Withdrawal as another means to become ex-Prisoners. Those are the only two >COWTRA ways their Prisoner status can change. Not true. A non-broken Guard may abandon its prisoners in the RPh/APh (A20.5). Mind you, doing so is generally an act of desperation, because Abandoned Prisoners are a monumental nuisance to the side that abandoned them (unless you don't mind the consequences of committing Massacre ...). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From hobbies at revealed.net Sat Jul 9 11:26:52 2005 From: hobbies at revealed.net (Alex Key) Date: Sun Jul 10 11:33:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Lost ASL Emails Message-ID: <42D016EC.5060108@revealed.net> My apologies for the waste in bandwidth. I personally don't like using the ASLML for retail messages but don't know of any other way to contact my customers at this time. If you emailed me since 4 June and didn't receive a reply, please re-send. My former remote email program went ballistic and 'ate' many of the incoming emails and backup files (to include the address book) on my laptop. This wasn't apparent until just recently. The support guys were able to gleam some of the names/addresses from the fragments that were left but don't know if everyone has since been contacted. Needless to say, I'm now using another email program. This problem does not affect my home computer. Currently, I'm away on Army business at Fort Lewis (then Fort Richardson) and returning home the first week of August. Until then, I won't be able to ship anything. By the time I get back, the ASLRB2 should be back in stock and everyone who pre-ordered with me will be contacted. I will accept pre-orders for the rulebook up through 1 August; your pre-order cost is $58.00 plus shipping. I am sincerely sorry for any inconvenience this caused. Alex Key's Games & Hobbies hobbies@revealed.net From Kyle.Curle at aia.com Sun Jul 10 12:52:31 2005 From: Kyle.Curle at aia.com (Kyle Curle) Date: Sun Jul 10 12:51:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question Message-ID: Does a unit at level one get hindered by a 2 lane stone bridge when firing thru a bridge hex at a unit at ground level? I am not sure how high a bridge goes as far as hindrance level. Thanks, Kyle From hofors at lysator.liu.se Sun Jul 10 13:07:52 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Sun Jul 10 13:07:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kyle Curle writes: > Does a unit at level one get hindered by a 2 lane stone bridge when > firing thru a bridge hex at a unit at ground level? I am not sure how > high a bridge goes as far as hindrance level. > Assuming the bridge is at ground level: No. Regards, Mattias From ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jul 10 14:38:24 2005 From: ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk (Binyamin Jones) Date: Sun Jul 10 14:38:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] My condolences In-Reply-To: <20050707.091447.3100.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <20050710213825.32595.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> thanks chuck, that's appreciated, likewise steve. takes a bit to sink in, i'm a long way from the bombs, but reading the eyewitness accounts, and more heartbreakingly, the pleas of people who are still waiting for there loved one to come home is pretty gutting. despite the british sang froid thanks for your concern b e n ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From swfancher at mindspring.com Sun Jul 10 18:04:52 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Sun Jul 10 18:05:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050710210237.01d052d0@mindspring.com> I believe that a bridge hex is a +1 hindrance to same level LOS only, so to a higher level there would be no hindrance. Be well. Seth At 03:52 PM 7/10/2005, Kyle Curle wrote: >Does a unit at level one get hindered by a 2 lane stone bridge when >firing thru a bridge hex at a unit at ground level? I am not sure how >high a bridge goes as far as hindrance level. > >Thanks, >Kyle >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From jim.white at dol.net Sun Jul 10 19:15:09 2005 From: jim.white at dol.net (James S. White Jr.) Date: Sun Jul 10 19:20:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] No Move counter Message-ID: <000c01c585be$5dc7e8f0$6401a8c0@workstation1> A Good Order unit on a No Move counter at night gets broken by a Sniper attack. Is he able to rout if he wants to? Thanks From danielzucker at comcast.net Sun Jul 10 21:02:50 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Sun Jul 10 21:02:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] No Move counter References: <000c01c585be$5dc7e8f0$6401a8c0@workstation1> Message-ID: <003f01c585cd$697396e0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> >A Good Order unit on a No Move counter at night gets broken by a Sniper >attack. Is he able to rout if he wants to? > > Thanks Ok I'm going to give it a try only because I'm playing a night scenario right now. E1.21 says units gain Freedom of movement if '..been attacked by the enemy,by other than OBA/sniper,...' so if your unit can satisfy this they are no longer under 'No Move' Daniel From danielzucker at comcast.net Mon Jul 11 00:16:04 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Mon Jul 11 00:16:03 2005 Subject: [Aslml] No Move counter References: <000c01c585be$5dc7e8f0$6401a8c0@workstation1> <003f01c585cd$697396e0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> Message-ID: <002601c585e8$68df03c0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel zucker" To: "James S. White Jr." ; "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Aslml] No Move counter > >A Good Order unit on a No Move counter at night gets broken by a Sniper > >attack. Is he able to rout if he wants to? >> >> Thanks > Ok I'm going to give it a try only because I'm playing a night scenario > right now. > E1.21 says units gain Freedom of movement if '..been attacked by the > enemy,by other than OBA/sniper,...' > > so if your unit can satisfy this they are no longer under 'No Move' > > Daniel Ohhhh let me add that he can rout also. Daniel From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Jul 11 02:09:43 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Jul 11 02:09:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] No Move counter In-Reply-To: <000c01c585be$5dc7e8f0$6401a8c0@workstation1> References: <000c01c585be$5dc7e8f0$6401a8c0@workstation1> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:15:09 -0400, "James S. White Jr." wrote: >A Good Order unit on a No Move counter at night gets broken by a Sniper >attack. Is he able to rout if he wants to? Yes, but he doesn't lose the No Move counter (since Snipers don't count as an attack type that causes the removal of the "No Move"). Perry Sez from earlier this year: *** > A unit on a No Move counter during a Night scenario is broken due to (e.g.) > enemy Sniper or OBA. This in itself does not appear to remove the "No Move" > counter. Is this correct? Correct. >If so, and the unit routs, is the "No Move" > counter removed, or does it stay with the unit as it routs? It stay with the unit as it routs. ....Perry MMP *** ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From hofors at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 11 03:58:47 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Mon Jul 11 03:58:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050710210237.01d052d0@mindspring.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050710210237.01d052d0@mindspring.com> Message-ID: In some circumstances it may be a hindrance to a "different-level" LOS, if one of the parties involve is on a lower level than the bridge. Check the rules for details. Regards, Mattias Seth W Fancher writes: > I believe that a bridge hex is a +1 hindrance to same level LOS only, > so to a higher level there would be no hindrance. > > Be well. > > Seth > > > > At 03:52 PM 7/10/2005, Kyle Curle wrote: > >Does a unit at level one get hindered by a 2 lane stone bridge when > >firing thru a bridge hex at a unit at ground level? I am not sure how > >high a bridge goes as far as hindrance level. > > > >Thanks, > >Kyle > >_______________________________________________ > >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From MPitcavage at adl.org Mon Jul 11 09:39:37 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Mon Jul 11 09:39:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71245@nymail.adl.org> In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional letter writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt from Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt from Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual misconduct with one of his young relatives. "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from the same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If someone has info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. Thanks. Mark Pitcavage From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 13:38:48 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Mon Jul 11 13:39:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71245@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71245@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <332a4d03050711133843be4ac2@mail.gmail.com> wow if this doesn't win the award for the "Least veiled post without ASL content" I don't know what else can. -CT On 7/11/05, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional letter > writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual misconduct with one of > his young relatives. > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from the > same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If someone has > info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > Thanks. > > Mark Pitcavage > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From hofors at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 11 14:31:34 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Mon Jul 11 14:31:43 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71245@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71245@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: Mr Pitcavage, are you a Government agent working undercover trying to reveal the true nature of the ASL community? If not, why do you ask? Regards, Mattias "Pitcavage, Mark" writes: > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional letter > writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual misconduct with one of > his young relatives. > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from the > same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If someone has > info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > Thanks. > > Mark Pitcavage > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From MPitcavage at adl.org Mon Jul 11 14:39:11 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Mon Jul 11 14:39:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7126D@nymail.adl.org> What sort of a bizarre question is that? I think the reason why I ask is pretty obvious--I'm trying to find out if the ASLer I came across in old ASL magazines is the same person as someone who has recently been making headlines in Missouri. -----Original Message----- From: Mattias R?nnblom [mailto:hofors@lysator.liu.se] Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 5:32 PM To: Pitcavage, Mark Cc: 'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net' Subject: Re: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Mr Pitcavage, are you a Government agent working undercover trying to reveal the true nature of the ASL community? If not, why do you ask? Regards, Mattias "Pitcavage, Mark" writes: > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional letter > writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt from > Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual misconduct with one of > his young relatives. > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from the > same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If someone has > info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > Thanks. > > Mark Pitcavage From AndrewTuline at SierraSystems.com Mon Jul 11 15:01:03 2005 From: AndrewTuline at SierraSystems.com (Tuline, Andrew) Date: Mon Jul 11 15:01:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <6EDD91032BBB004DA86C358BA6D3A3F504D3412A@SCVANEX2.sierrasys.com> ROFL! Are you thinking that Mark's question about a single ASL player may be an organized effort to determine the behaviour of the ASL community as a whole? I'm hoping it was just a humorous retort instead. -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Mattias R?nnblom Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:32 PM To: Pitcavage, Mark Cc: 'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net' Subject: Re: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Mr Pitcavage, are you a Government agent working undercover trying to reveal the true nature of the ASL community? If not, why do you ask? Regards, Mattias "Pitcavage, Mark" writes: > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional > letter writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt > from Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin > Lindstedt from Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual > misconduct with one of his young relatives. > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from > the same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If > someone has info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > Thanks. > > Mark Pitcavage > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From hofors at lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 11 15:12:43 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Mon Jul 11 15:12:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <6EDD91032BBB004DA86C358BA6D3A3F504D3412A@SCVANEX2.sierrasys.com> References: <6EDD91032BBB004DA86C358BA6D3A3F504D3412A@SCVANEX2.sierrasys.com> Message-ID: Andrew, no, I don't. Now that I've looked up "retort": yes, I believe it was suppose to be a humorous retort. Regards, Mattias "Tuline, Andrew" writes: > ROFL! > > Are you thinking that Mark's question about a single ASL player may > be an organized effort to determine the behaviour of the ASL > community as a whole? > > I'm hoping it was just a humorous retort instead. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Mattias R?nnblom > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:32 PM > To: Pitcavage, Mark > Cc: 'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net' > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt > > Mr Pitcavage, > > are you a Government agent working undercover trying to reveal the true nature of the ASL community? If not, why do you ask? > > Regards, > Mattias > > "Pitcavage, Mark" writes: > > > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional > > letter writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt > > from Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin > > Lindstedt from Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual > > misconduct with one of his young relatives. > > > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from > > the same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If > > someone has info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mark Pitcavage > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From rjmosher at direcway.com Mon Jul 11 15:43:08 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Mon Jul 11 15:43:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <6EDD91032BBB004DA86C358BA6D3A3F504D3412A@SCVANEX2.sierrasy s.com> References: <6EDD91032BBB004DA86C358BA6D3A3F504D3412A@SCVANEX2.sierrasys.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050711174041.01c87a00@pop3.direcway.com> At 05:01 PM 7/11/2005, Tuline, Andrew wrote: >Are you thinking that Mark's question about a single ASL player may be an >organized effort to determine the behaviour of the ASL community as a whole? Let's see: 1. He shows up out of no where. 2. Buys everything ASL. 3. Has time to make a website, do all the stuff on the site, play constantly. 4. Meet and greet a whole bunch of ASLers. 5. Now starts to interrogate the ASL clan. Mattias may be on to something. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From dave.connell at cougarcorp.com Mon Jul 11 16:00:50 2005 From: dave.connell at cougarcorp.com (Dave Connell) Date: Mon Jul 11 15:55:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <826A31740CCE7242A2854D472371A9A28D8BE2@trinity.cougarcorp.com> >>2. Buys everything ASL. 3. Has time to make a website, do all the stuff on the site, play constantly.<< I'm sure this was all financed/set up by his handlers. Dave -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of ron mosher Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:43 PM To: Tuline, Andrew; Mattias R?nnblom Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: RE: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt At 05:01 PM 7/11/2005, Tuline, Andrew wrote: >Are you thinking that Mark's question about a single ASL player may be an >organized effort to determine the behaviour of the ASL community as a whole? Let's see: 1. He shows up out of no where. 2. Buys everything ASL. 3. Has time to make a website, do all the stuff on the site, play constantly. 4. Meet and greet a whole bunch of ASLers. 5. Now starts to interrogate the ASL clan. Mattias may be on to something. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:24:13 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Mon Jul 11 16:24:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Does a unit at level one get hindered by a 2 lane stone bridge when firing >thru a bridge hex at a unit at ground level? I am not sure how high a >bridge goes as far as hindrance level. Assuming the bridge is at ground level, then no. 1/2 level above it's own elevation, per old Q&A: B6.2 How is a non-pontoon Bridge counter treated for LOS purposes? A. As per B6.2, but each such counter is also Inherent Terrain (B.6) [EXC: a LOS into/through its hex does not incur the bridge Hindrance/TEM if it crosses only the road hexside(s) (exclusive of vertices) of that hex]. In addition, all non-pontoon Bridge counters and printed bridges are one-and-a-half level LOS Hindrances rising from one level < that of the bridge Location [EXC: no bridge Hinders LOS drawn either along the bridge's road depiction or from and to Location that are lower than the bridge's Location; no LOS exists from a bridge Location to any other Location beneath that bridge, even if that bridge is multi-hex in length]. [An92; An95w; An96; Mw] Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From Kyle.Curle at aia.com Mon Jul 11 18:50:03 2005 From: Kyle.Curle at aia.com (Kyle Curle) Date: Mon Jul 11 18:48:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Morale level max Message-ID: <09B3A98B-40F8-4FA8-A7F0-98B949378BE1@aia.com> Rules say the 10 is the max ML. If you have a fanatic 8 ML sqd stacked with a 9-2 ldr his ML goes up to 11 for MC's, correct? Or is 10 as high as it can go? so that he would break on a 11 roll of a 1 mc? Thanks, Kyle From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Mon Jul 11 18:54:51 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Mon Jul 11 18:56:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Morale level max Message-ID: NRBH for rules references but someone will correct me if I'm wrong :(. The fanatic 8 ML squad will have a Morale Level of 9 due to its fanaticism. The 9-2 leader does not increase the squad's morale. Rather the leadership is a DRM to any MC/TC the squad may have to take. Cheers Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Kyle Curle [mailto:Kyle.Curle@aia.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2005 9:50 AM > To: ASL List > Subject: [Aslml] Morale level max > > Rules say the 10 is the max ML. If you have a fanatic 8 ML sqd > stacked with a 9-2 ldr his ML goes up to 11 for MC's, correct? Or is > 10 as high as it can go? so that he would break on a 11 roll of a 1 mc? > > Thanks, > Kyle > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net This e-mail and files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From swfancher at mindspring.com Mon Jul 11 19:12:22 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Mon Jul 11 19:12:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Morale level max In-Reply-To: <09B3A98B-40F8-4FA8-A7F0-98B949378BE1@aia.com> References: <09B3A98B-40F8-4FA8-A7F0-98B949378BE1@aia.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050711220818.01d0d5a0@mindspring.com> Don't confuse the Leadership DRM with increased ML. The Fanatic squad has ML=8. The Leadership DRM can be applied to any MC DR made by the unit it is stacked with...but it does not increase the ML of the unit. In this case, for an NMC the unit will Break and CR on a DR=6,6 and Pin on a DR=11. For a 1MC, the squad will Pin on a DR=10, break on a DR=11 and take be CR again on a DR=12. Be well. Seth At 09:50 PM 7/11/2005, Kyle Curle wrote: >Rules say the 10 is the max ML. If you have a fanatic 8 ML sqd >stacked with a 9-2 ldr his ML goes up to 11 for MC's, correct? Or is >10 as high as it can go? so that he would break on a 11 roll of a 1 mc? > >Thanks, >Kyle >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From steven.linton at bigpond.com Mon Jul 11 20:19:37 2005 From: steven.linton at bigpond.com (steven.linton) Date: Mon Jul 11 20:20:26 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <11918323.1121138377354.JavaMail.root@web03ps> I'm not sure it was all that humerous a query/retort. Mark has a high level of interest in monitoring the right wing of politics - see his webpage at http://www.sff.net/people/pitman/ for more info - though no pictures (Mark - you never struck me as shy) Steve ---- "Mattias R?nnblom" wrote: > Andrew, > > no, I don't. Now that I've looked up "retort": yes, I believe it was > suppose to be a humorous retort. > > Regards, > Mattias > > "Tuline, Andrew" writes: > > > ROFL! > > > > Are you thinking that Mark's question about a single ASL player may > > be an organized effort to determine the behaviour of the ASL > > community as a whole? > > > > I'm hoping it was just a humorous retort instead. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Mattias R?nnblom > > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:32 PM > > To: Pitcavage, Mark > > Cc: 'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net' > > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt > > > > Mr Pitcavage, > > > > are you a Government agent working undercover trying to reveal the true nature of the ASL community? If not, why do you ask? > > > > Regards, > > Mattias > > > > "Pitcavage, Mark" writes: > > > > > In old issues of the ASL newsletter On All Fronts, an occasional > > > letter writer and scenario designer was a man named Martin Lindstedt from Missouri. > > > > > > I am curious if anybody knows if this ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt > > > from Missouri is the same person as the white supremacist Martin > > > Lindstedt from Missouri who was recently arrested for alleged sexual > > > misconduct with one of his young relatives. > > > > > > "Martin Lindstedt" is not the most common of names, and both are from > > > the same state, so I have wondered for some time if they were the same person. > > > Does anybody know if they are the same or different people? If > > > someone has info, I would appreciate knowing it; please e-mail me. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mark Pitcavage > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 05:36:05 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 05:36:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <4404j6$13vt2h6@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/11 Mon PM 04:39:11 CDT > To: 'Mattias R?nnblom' > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt > > What sort of a bizarre question is that? Yeah, almost as bizarre as your initial post. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 05:39:39 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 05:39:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <44038i$15su2vr@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "steven.linton" > Date: 2005/07/11 Mon PM 10:19:37 CDT > To: Mattias R?nnblom , > "Tuline, Andrew" > CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt > > I'm not sure it was all that humerous a query/retort. Sure it was...it was a humorous response to a post that should never have been sent to the ASLML seeing as it has no relation to ASL itself. > Mark has a high level of interest in monitoring the right wing of politics - see his webpage at http://www.sff.net/people/pitman/ for more info - though no pictures (Mark - you never struck me as shy) > Which is exactly why that post should never have been sent to the ASLML. The ASLML is non-political. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From hofors at lysator.liu.se Tue Jul 12 08:38:45 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Tue Jul 12 08:38:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <11918323.1121138377354.JavaMail.root@web03ps> References: <11918323.1121138377354.JavaMail.root@web03ps> Message-ID: "steven.linton" writes: > I'm not sure it was all that humerous a query/retort. > What do you mean, Steven? Regards, Mattias From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 08:50:24 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 08:50:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71278@nymail.adl.org> Man, some of you guys really crack me up. I have been dealing with this guy in my professional sphere for some time, and recently came across someone with the same name from the same place who plays ASL. Who wouldn't be curious? I bet if you were a salesman and saw in an ASL newsletter a name that seemed like it might be one of your clients, you would be curious, too. It has nothing to do with "politics," whatever that means. From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Tue Jul 12 09:03:41 2005 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Tue Jul 12 09:04:27 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71278@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71278@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > It has nothing to do with "politics," whatever that means. > It seems entirely on-topic for someone to ask if anybody knows the whereabouts of a former ASL player. For all we know, one of his opponents could chime in that the ASL-playing Lindstedt moved to Florida in 1997 and is not at all the guy in the papers. Or maybe it is the same guy. Does anybody have an answer to the question about the whereabouts of the ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt? Pitcavage's question is not political at all. Politics won't come into play until we find out the answer. Marty Marty Snow marty.snow@lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 10:15:46 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:15:51 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Marty Snow > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue AM 11:03:41 CDT > To: "Pitcavage, Mark" > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: Re: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > > It seems entirely on-topic for someone to ask if anybody knows the > whereabouts of a former ASL player. That wasn't the question being asked and you know it. It ain't like "Pitman" was looking for a match with the guy. Asking about the criminal status of an ASL player doesn't seem very relavent for the ASLML...at least not to me. It would be the same as someone coming on the list and asking if... "Hey, does anybody know if John Doe still beats his wife?" "Anybody know the whereabout of that drug addict John Doe?" > For all we know, one of his opponents > could chime in that the ASL-playing Lindstedt moved to Florida in 1997 and > is not at all the guy in the papers. Or maybe it is the same guy. Does > anybody have an answer to the question about the whereabouts of the > ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt? The "Pitman" should have simply asked about the where abouts of the guy. Adding all the other stuff about being a militia member and sexual behavior was totally inappropriate especially since "Pitman" had no earthly idea whether it was the same person. Now the poor guys name, on the ASLML anway, is forever going to be associated with crime and right wing militias. It is just another example of his rude, inconsiderate, and insensitive nature. > > Pitcavage's question is not political at all. Politics won't come into > play until we find out the answer. "Pitman" is Director of Fact-Finding for the Anti-Defamation League...there is only one reason he would be seeking info on this guy...unless you think he was looking for a game with a right wing nut and/or sex offender. The ASLML is not here to help him do his job. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From john at winhaven.net Tue Jul 12 10:27:41 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:28:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <200507121727.j6CHRlIE125852@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> Yes, I agree, the implications of the original message were clear to me. The message could have simply asked, as so many others have, if anyone knew of the whereabouts/current email address of this individual. Implying that the person was a possibly a criminal just because of a similar name was just not cool. I've asked a number of people from this list (in private) if they were someone I may have known from the past because of their name. It has never been so. It's a big world out there... John "Lurking device now reactivating..." Bartow -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Tate Rogers The "Pitman" should have simply asked about the where abouts of the guy. Adding all the other stuff about being a militia member and sexual behavior was totally inappropriate especially since "Pitman" had no earthly idea whether it was the same person. Now the poor guys name, on the ASLML anway, is forever going to be associated with crime and right wing militias. From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Tue Jul 12 10:28:40 2005 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:29:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Tate Rogers wrote: > That wasn't the question being asked and you know it. It ain't like > "Pitman" was looking for a match with the guy. The question is whether or not the guy who is currently being investigated/prosecuted/whatever is the same guy as the ASL player with the same name. > Asking about the criminal status of an ASL player doesn't seem very > relavent for the ASLML...at least not to me. It would be the same as > someone coming on the list and asking if... You're assuming it's the same guy. > The "Pitman" should have simply asked about the where abouts of the guy. > Adding all the other stuff about being a militia member and sexual > behavior was totally inappropriate especially since "Pitman" had no > earthly idea whether it was the same person. Now the poor guys name, on > the ASLML anway, is forever going to be associated with crime and right > wing militias. The name of the militia member was never in question. If anybody knows the ASL player with the same name, then we can resolve the confusion. > "Pitman" is Director of Fact-Finding for the Anti-Defamation > League...there is only one reason he would be seeking info on this > guy...unless you think he was looking for a game with a right wing nut > and/or sex offender. The ASLML is not here to help him do his job. > I imagine that he's hoping the guy is _NOT_ the one who played ASL. If so, then it's a black mark against everyone who shares the hobby. It's unfortunate that apparently you don't see it that way. Marty Marty Snow marty.snow@lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 10:37:27 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:38:13 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <43vtj8$114bpf6@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue AM 10:50:24 CDT > To: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > Man, some of you guys really crack me up. If I was this "Martin Lindstedt", I don't think I would find it funny at all... > I have been dealing with this guy > in my professional sphere for some time, and recently came across someone > with the same name from the same place who plays ASL. Who wouldn't be > curious? I bet if you were a salesman and saw in an ASL newsletter a name > that seemed like it might be one of your clients, you would be curious, too. > It has nothing to do with "politics," whatever that means. > Then why not just ask if any one knew a guy by the name of "Martin Lindstedt" from MO? Why add the other stuff about RW militia and/or sex offenses...particularly since you have know idea if they are connected. For future reference "Pitman" please do not post anything that you may become privy to regarding my personal life to the ASLML. It is astounding that I have to tell a grown man something like that but it appears I do. I suggest everyone else on the ASLML may want to let the "Pitman" know that personal info is off limits otherwise you may find you personal life plastered all over the ASLML: Pitman: "Anybody seen John Doe ASL player from Kathmandu, I heard about a John Doe that joined NAMBLU and was recently arrested for defrauding little old ladies out of their retirement funds...just wondering if it is the same guy." As to the salesman and clients...I have had such opportunity in the past for my work and have never even considered using the ASLML in such a rude and selfcentered way. The ASLML is not here for people to use for their business _UNLESS_ said business is directly related to producing ASL. Asking about "Martin Lindstedt" was not inappropriate...including the stuff about RW militia and sexual offenses was way off base. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From rln22 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 12 10:51:17 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:51:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <43vtj8$114bpf6@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <20050712175117.42523.qmail@web52604.mail.yahoo.com> I'm stunned to find myself agreeing so whole-heartedly with 'the spud man', but he's dead on here. anyone with the slightest understanding of how innuendo, rumour and gossip function in a modern, media saturated society should know MUCH better than to ever, in any way, associate someone's name and identity (a designer in the asl community is enough of an identity) with such behaviour. We all MUST assume that the said designer is not the same person, and if I were him I would be horrified that such a connection was being made on the aslml...ESPECIALLY by someone in a position to know such things. Mark, I happen to believe your question was wholly innocent, and purely curious. But I hope you realize that such 'connection's are highly innappropriate in a society that simply hears connections, and spends ZERO time analyzing even the initial claim/query. Must I remind you...more than 40% of your compatriots STILL BELIEVE WMD were found in Iraq!!!! Talk about the power of suggestion. --- Tate Rogers wrote: > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue AM 10:50:24 CDT > > To: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > > Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > > > Man, some of you guys really crack me up. > > If I was this "Martin Lindstedt", I don't think I > would find it funny at all... > > > I have been dealing with this guy > > in my professional sphere for some time, and > recently came across someone > > with the same name from the same place who plays > ASL. Who wouldn't be > > curious? I bet if you were a salesman and saw in > an ASL newsletter a name > > that seemed like it might be one of your clients, > you would be curious, too. > > It has nothing to do with "politics," whatever > that means. > > > > Then why not just ask if any one knew a guy by the > name of "Martin Lindstedt" from MO? Why add the > other stuff about RW militia and/or sex > offenses...particularly since you have know idea if > they are connected. > > For future reference "Pitman" please do not post > anything that you may become privy to regarding my > personal life to the ASLML. It is astounding that I > have to tell a grown man something like that but it > appears I do. I suggest everyone else on the ASLML > may want to let the "Pitman" know that personal info > is off limits otherwise you may find you personal > life plastered all over the ASLML: > > Pitman: "Anybody seen John Doe ASL player from > Kathmandu, I heard about a John Doe that joined > NAMBLU and was recently arrested for defrauding > little old ladies out of their retirement > funds...just wondering if it is the same guy." > > As to the salesman and clients...I have had such > opportunity in the past for my work and have never > even considered using the ASLML in such a rude and > selfcentered way. The ASLML is not here for people > to use for their business _UNLESS_ said business is > directly related to producing ASL. > > Asking about "Martin Lindstedt" was not > inappropriate...including the stuff about RW militia > and sexual offenses was way off base. > > > Later- > > Tater (One Mean Spud!) > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster@aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From hofors at lysator.liu.se Tue Jul 12 10:56:33 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:56:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: Hi, I'm about to prepare a setup for On All Fronts (OAF) 94-1 The Glory Road. The VC says "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." My interpretation would be that the Allied need GO MMC/AFV on/adjacent to both 8I5 and 8I9 to win. Otherwise, there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 _and_ 8I9. Now, my question is: do you agree with the above reasoning? And more importantly: what was designer's intent? Has anyone played this, I can tell us something about what interpretation they did and what the balance felt like given that interpretation? Regards, Mattias From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 10:58:06 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:58:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127D@nymail.adl.org> Tate blithers: ""Pitman" is Director of Fact-Finding for the Anti-Defamation League...there is only one reason he would be seeking info on this guy...unless you think he was looking for a game with a right wing nut and/or sex offender. The ASLML is not here to help him do his job." You blithering idiot. If someone said he was the same guy, what do you think would be done with that? Some headline on the ADL website: "White supremacist plays ASL"??? What possible interest could the ADL have in whether or not the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt is the same person as the person named Martin Lindstedt who played ASL a decade ago? The answer is none, and anybody with two brain cells to rub together could discern that fact. The interest is personal, and it is simply because I am curious. From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 10:59:37 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 10:59:43 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127E@nymail.adl.org> "Implying that the person was a possibly a criminal just because of a similar name was just not cool." I implied nothing. Read the original message. You tell me how someone could ascertain whether the two Martin Lindstedts were one and the same or two different people without framing a very similar question. From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 11:04:16 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:04:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127D@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127D@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <332a4d0305071211047962842c@mail.gmail.com> Gotta agree with Tate on all accounts. This inquiry was weird and not ASL related whatsoever. My 2 cents. -Chuck On 7/12/05, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > Tate blithers: > ""Pitman" is Director of Fact-Finding for the Anti-Defamation League...there > is only one reason he would be seeking info on this guy...unless you think > he was looking for a game with a right wing nut and/or sex offender. The > ASLML is not here to help him do his job." > > You blithering idiot. If someone said he was the same guy, what do you > think would be done with that? Some headline on the ADL website: "White > supremacist plays ASL"??? What possible interest could the ADL have in > whether or not the white supremacist Martin Lindstedt is the same person as > the person named Martin Lindstedt who played ASL a decade ago? The answer > is none, and anybody with two brain cells to rub together could discern that > fact. The interest is personal, and it is simply because I am curious. > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 11:04:30 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:04:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127F@nymail.adl.org> Tate blithers: "Then why not just ask if any one knew a guy by the name of 'Martin Lindstedt' from MO? Why add the other stuff about RW militia and/or sex offenses...particularly since you have know idea if they are connected." Let's say someone say "yes," how would that help? Both of the Martin Lindstedts in question are from Missouri, so that would not distinguish between the two or ascertain whether they are two different people or one and the same. I added the stuff about his white supremacist activities and recent arrest because 1) it has been in the news and someone might recognize him from that and 2) that is how someone could answer the question, for example, by saying "I knew the old ASLer Martin Lindstedt and he doesn't have a racist bone in his body, so they must be two different people." I could come on this list and say "cats are nice," and you would attack me for hating dog-lovers. And that is not an exaggeration. You have no interest in this subject at all, except insofar as you can twist it to find some way to attack me. You are as transparent as a cellophane wall. From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 11:10:51 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:10:55 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71280@nymail.adl.org> "anyone with the slightest understanding of how innuendo, rumour and gossip function in a modern, media saturated society should know MUCH better than to ever, in any way, associate someone's name and identity (a designer in the asl community is enough of an identity) with such behaviour. We all MUST assume that the said designer is not the same person, and if I were him I would be horrified that such a connection was being made on the aslml...ESPECIALLY by someone in a position to know such things. Mark, I happen to believe your question was wholly innocent, and purely curious. But I hope you realize that such 'connection's are highly innappropriate in a society that simply hears connections, and spends ZERO time analyzing even the initial claim/query" I have not assumed anything. When I noticed that there was a Martin Lindstedt from Missouri who used to be involved in ASL "back in the day," and that there was a Martin Lindstedt from Missouri who was a white supremacist who was recently arrested, I wondered if they were one and the same. I went to the source that I thought would be most likely to have on it someone who knew the ASLer Martin Lindstedt, and who could tell me that yes, they were likely the same person, or that no, they were not the same person. Little did I know that I would be attacked for trying to find verification. If I had come on the list and made insinuating remarks or tried to start rumors, then I could see being chastised. But I did the most logical and reasonable thing. And got attacked for it, thanks largely to assholes like Tate Rogers, who has a personal vendetta against me. From john at winhaven.net Tue Jul 12 11:25:06 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:25:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127E@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <200507121825.j6CIPC0Z359038@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> My opinion was not formed by Tate's remark. It was formed immediately upon seeing your original message. I was just hoping this message would be ignored but it hasn't been. I received a call from a lawyer a couple of months ago. Because of my name. The case had nothing to do with me. Her attitude was that I was the John Bartow in Wisconsin she was looking for and I was just evading her. I wasn't the one she was looking for and I just happened to know the John Bartow she was looking for. After I explained that to her and told her how to get in touch with the correct John Bartow you would've thought she could at least apologize for her implications and maybe thank me for my help. No such thing happened. She was just too arrogant to admin she was wrong and too rude to say thank you. So, please don't argue the fact that email can be interpreted in ways not initially intended. I try to take all the personal slams against people on the list with a grain of salt. I think of them as uninformed, impersonal opinions based on poor interpretations of email. I have no bones to pick with you, Tate or Martin. You've all left your personal marks on the ASL world. I just hope no one leaves someone else with an unintended mark. -----Original Message----- From: Pitcavage, Mark [mailto:MPitcavage@adl.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:00 PM To: 'John Bartow'; 'Tate Rogers'; 'Marty Snow' Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: RE: Re: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt "Implying that the person was a possibly a criminal just because of a similar name was just not cool." I implied nothing. Read the original message. You tell me how someone could ascertain whether the two Martin Lindstedts were one and the same or two different people without framing a very similar question. From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 11:31:17 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <071220051831.24003.42D40C74000D665900005DC322064246130E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> > And got attacked for it, thanks largely to assholes like > Tate Rogers, who has a personal vendetta against me. Doesn't this statement seem a little odd coming from someone associated with the Anti-Defamation League? Does this make anyone who questions your tact (or lack thereof) an "asshole", Mark? Just curious. Dave Reenstra From tompygo at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 11:48:34 2005 From: tompygo at comcast.net (Jeff Thompson) Date: Tue Jul 12 11:48:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Of course... Message-ID: <004301c58712$51949420$8150020a@JZTHOMPS> All these messages disecting Mark's personal thoughts are so much more interesting and ASL-related (Well, somebody had to say it.) What's the playing time on Hill 621? I've played over 400 scenarios over the last 10 years and still haven't played this one. Thanks, Jeff From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 12:03:26 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 12 12:05:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <071220051903.17766.42D413FE0001A6D60000456622064246130E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi Mattias, I would agree with your reasoning: the Allied player needs to have GO MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to both hexes to deny the Germans from fulfilling the VC. Just having units on or adjacent to one of the hexes won't cut it. I can't verify this by claiming to know the designer's intent or even by prior experience with the scenario though. HtH, Dave Reenstra > Hi, > > I'm about to prepare a setup for On All Fronts (OAF) 94-1 The Glory > Road. > > The VC says > > "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs > on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." > > My interpretation would be that the Allied need GO MMC/AFV on/adjacent > to both 8I5 and 8I9 to win. Otherwise, there are no Good Order Allied > MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 _and_ 8I9. > > Now, my question is: do you agree with the above reasoning? > > And more importantly: what was designer's intent? Has anyone played > this, I can tell us something about what interpretation they did and > what the balance felt like given that interpretation? > > Regards, > Mattias > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From garciagd at velocity.net Tue Jul 12 12:19:05 2005 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Tue Jul 12 12:15:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt References: <200507121825.j6CIPC0Z359038@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <002501c58716$93557a10$3903010a@gecac.org> Hi! > My opinion was not formed by Tate's remark. It was formed immediately upon > seeing your original message. I was just hoping this message would be > ignored but it hasn't been. I have to agree here. (Shudder........agreeing with Tate). I was away on vacation and came back to read all these posts concerning Mark's (original) post. I would have hoped that the original post would have been ignored. IMHO, the comments on sex offender, etc. should never have been included in the original post in the first place. They simply did not need to be included as they served no purpose but to tarnish the name of a man none of us even know. We do not even know if he is the same guy or not. "Hey is the Roger Whelan from Erie PA. the same Roger Whelan MMP just sued for printing ASL Rule Books on toilet paper":>) Roger From john at winhaven.net Tue Jul 12 12:34:35 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue Jul 12 12:34:51 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <002501c58716$93557a10$3903010a@gecac.org> Message-ID: <200507121934.j6CJYfUe153532@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net> LOL Damned, beaten to another good scam idea! -----Original Message----- From: roger whelan [mailto:garciagd@velocity.net] "Hey is the Roger Whelan from Erie PA. the same Roger Whelan MMP just sued for printing ASL Rule Books on toilet paper":>) Roger From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 12:39:17 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 12:39:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Of course... Message-ID: <4532ph$12ahvhg@mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Jeff Thompson" > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue PM 01:48:34 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] Of course... > > All these messages disecting Mark's personal thoughts are so much more > interesting and ASL-related Well, a simple sorry...won't happen again...and we would have been done. However, such is not the ego of the "Pitman". Instead of admiting it was wrong he says it is a "personal vendetta". Apparently, about a half dozen or so folks have a "personal vendetta" against him. Perhaps that is what makes him a good ASL player...his willingness to defend the indefensible. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 12 12:30:37 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 12 12:43:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <4404pq$169okjn@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue PM 01:04:30 CDT > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > > I could come on this list and say "cats are nice," and you would attack me > for hating dog-lovers. And that is not an exaggeration. You have no > interest in this subject at all, except insofar as you can twist it to find > some way to attack me. Your right "Pitman", it is all about you...I do nothing all day but wait for the next opportunity to attack you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you acted inconsideratly...that what you did was wrong. How could it, I mean you are never wrong. BTW, I don't know if you have noticed...but there are number of ASLML denizens that have chimed in agreeing with my point. I guess they all have a "personal vendetta" against you as well. Well, not only were you wrong in what you did...you are a little paranoid about it as well. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From jim.white at dol.net Tue Jul 12 13:00:49 2005 From: jim.white at dol.net (James S. White Jr.) Date: Tue Jul 12 13:10:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71278@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <008f01c5871c$67f41290$6401a8c0@workstation1> Mark, I'm a long-time lurker on the List, Consimworld, and the Forums...having made only a few posts over the past couple of months or so. Yet for some reason felt the need to respond to this latest post of yours. First, let me preface this by saying when I got back into ASL 4-5 years ago I attended Winter Offensive in 2001 (I think it was) and the first game I played in years was against you. I had no idea who you were, but the game was enjoyable and I've been playing when possible ever since. Of course then I got involved in reading all the list material and such, and it took awhile for me to realize that the "Pitman" was the one and same I had played before. Therefore, my opinion of you (irrelevant to you I'm sure) is constantly being balanced between the persona you displayed during our game versus the arrogance you display while sitting in front of a computer monitor. With all that said...I have a question for you. I've noticed that you had not posted to the ASLML for over two months or so...yet you continue to be a regular contributor to Consimworld and the Forums (ACG/SZO). However, when choosing to post your question about Martin Lindstedt...you only posted it here. Why not on the other sites? Now maybe you did post it there...and I missed it...and if so then I apologize. But like the others have stated...I can't help but feel there is more far-reaching reason for you posting the question as you did...despite your denial. Now you can choose to ignore this question...or you can flame me in person or publicly...either way I won't lose any sleep over it. Jim White ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pitcavage, Mark" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > Man, some of you guys really crack me up. I have been dealing with this > guy > in my professional sphere for some time, and recently came across someone > with the same name from the same place who plays ASL. Who wouldn't be > curious? I bet if you were a salesman and saw in an ASL newsletter a name > that seemed like it might be one of your clients, you would be curious, > too. > It has nothing to do with "politics," whatever that means. > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From rjmosher at direcway.com Tue Jul 12 13:26:03 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Tue Jul 12 13:26:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050712152519.01c9a4f8@pop3.direcway.com> At 02:03 PM 7/12/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: > the Allied player needs to have GO MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to both > hexes to deny the Germans from fulfilling the VC. Just having units on > or adjacent to one of the hexes won't cut it. Buzz..wrong!! A26.3 AVOIDANCE: Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario lists the Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by avoiding those Victory Conditions. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From rjmosher at direcway.com Tue Jul 12 13:39:50 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Tue Jul 12 13:40:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050712153628.01ca7ec8@pop3.direcway.com> At 12:28 PM 7/12/2005, Marty Snow wrote: >I imagine that he's hoping the guy is _NOT_ the one who played ASL. If >so, then it's a black mark against everyone who shares the hobby. Nope, only a black mark against him or those that agree with him in his other "beliefs/hobby". We ASLers aren't a social fraternity, where all have to agree to let someone in or keep them out. If you're a member of Sam's Club and so is he, is that a black mark against you? For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From MPitcavage at adl.org Tue Jul 12 13:55:43 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Tue Jul 12 13:55:53 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB71295@nymail.adl.org> "I've noticed that you had not posted to the ASLML for over two months or so...yet you continue to be a regular contributor to Consimworld and the Forums (ACG/SZO). However, when choosing to post your question about Martin Lindstedt...you only posted it here. Why not on the other sites? Now maybe you did post it there...and I missed it...and if so then I apologize. But like the others have stated...I can't help but feel there is more far-reaching reason for you posting the question as you did...despite your denial. Now you can choose to ignore this question...or you can flame me in person or publicly...either way I won't lose any sleep over it." I only posted it here and not on the other sites because the majority of people who post on, say, the Warfare HQ ASL forum are not "old-timers" and would have no chance of having encountered the ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt of the 1980s-early 1990s. I thought the mailing list had the highest proportion of old veterans who might actually have a chance of knowing the ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt. From the.colonel at clara.co.uk Tue Jul 12 14:09:25 2005 From: the.colonel at clara.co.uk (The Colonel) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:09:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7127D@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <003f01c58725$fbb303c0$05eca850@homepc> >> > You blithering idiot. That brings back some fond memories. I used to have a physics teacher and that was what he often said when somebody failed to answer one of his questions. Great word 'blithering', and it is years since I have seen it used. the colonel From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Tue Jul 12 14:21:01 2005 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:21:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050712153628.01ca7ec8@pop3.direcway.com> References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050712153628.01ca7ec8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, ron mosher wrote: > >I imagine that he's hoping the guy is _NOT_ the one who played ASL. If > >so, then it's a black mark against everyone who shares the hobby. > > Nope, only a black mark against him or those that agree with him in his > other "beliefs/hobby". We ASLers aren't a social fraternity, where all have > to agree to let someone in or keep them out. > I notice that the media frequently links the fact that Dylan & Klebold played video games to the fact that they murdered their fellow students at Columbine High School. If a newspaper were to mention that a used to play Advanced Squad Leader, do you think that your reputation in your community as an ASL player would not suffer? You and I may be smart enough to realize that there's no connection between playing wargames and being a sociopath, but that doesn't mean that everyone is. I have absolutely no desire to ever answer the question: "Isn't that the same game that that whacko in Missouri plays?" (no, I'm not taking a jab at Ron or any other player from the fine state of Missouri) :-) That's why I think this topic is relevant to the ASL community, and why I'm posting this to the ASLML. Most people see wargamers as just one step up the evolutionary ladder from RPG-ers, and I don't want to see us devolve. Marty Marty Snow marty.snow@lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From robertthepastor at juno.com Tue Jul 12 14:19:37 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:38:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <20050712.143624.11028.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Dave Reenstra agreed with Mattias Rvnnblom about understanding the VC. The VC were given to us as: "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." I disagree. I read it as the Germans win by clearing *both* areas. I will admit, the VC could have been clearer. Robert From robertthepastor at juno.com Tue Jul 12 14:36:16 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:38:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: <20050712.143624.11028.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Dr. Snow, IMHO, you are wrong in supporting Mr. Pitcavage. Mr. Pitcavage is/was wrong by _adding_ all of the additional stuff about Mr. Lindstedt. Tate was NOT "assuming it's the same guy." Tate never even said such. All Pitcavage had to ask was, "Does anyone know this Mr. Lindstedt from MO who used to write for OAF?". That would have been appropriate! Pitman, things were very nice and quite around these parts --- just ASL stuff being discussed. Then you reappear with your question adding stuff that (for now) was wholly unnecessary. Dude, go away with these posts! Tate calls you on the carpet and holds the flame to your feet for _your_ insensitive post ---- and you start calling him names. Is that standard practice with the ADL --- to start name calling when your mistakes are brought to light? Mark, you owe Mr. Tate Rogers an apology. NOW! Dr. Snow, as one of the moderators, why don't you ask Mr. Pitcavage for that apology? I will close here. Oh, btw, Mark --- as per the California Constitution, I am a member of the California Militia. I have no choice in the matter. So, what does that make me? Robert From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 14:51:44 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:53:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <071220052151.7250.42D43B700002F24400001C5222007601800E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> How is what I wrote incorrect? The VCs state that the Germans win if the Allied player doesn't have GO MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to two different hexes (as listed separated by an "and" not an "or" nor an "and/or") at game end (just going by what the original poster wrote, NSCH). So the Allied player denies the German player from fulfilling the VC only if Allied units are adjacent to *both* hexes. A26.3 just says that if the scenario only lists VC for one side, the other side wins if that side doesn't fulfill the VC. So there is no "draw" if the side with VC listed fails to fulfill them and the scenario doesn't have to list VC for both sides explicitly. HtH, Dave Reenstra > At 02:03 PM 7/12/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: > > the Allied player needs to have GO MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to both > > hexes to deny the Germans from fulfilling the VC. Just having units on > > or adjacent to one of the hexes won't cut it. > > Buzz..wrong!! > > A26.3 AVOIDANCE: Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario lists the > Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by avoiding > those Victory Conditions. > > > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL > From ktasl at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 14:54:47 2005 From: ktasl at comcast.net (Keith Todd) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:54:51 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net><6.2.1.2.0.20050712153628.01ca7ec8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <002901c5872c$526fb310$6401a8c0@MOOSE> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Snow" To: "ron mosher" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Marty Snow wrote: > Most people see wargamers as just one step > up the evolutionary ladder from RPG-ers, and I don't want to see us > devolve. > That is a whale of an assumption. Keith From gd891 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 12 14:59:37 2005 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd) Date: Tue Jul 12 14:59:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ML and lost lost ASLers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > You and I may be smart enough to realize that there's no > connection between playing war games and being a sociopath, > but that doesn't mean that everyone is. Have you seen the rulebook? Come on, every single ASLer should be considered..... Oh wait, I'm thinking of masochist not sociopath. Never mind. > Marty Snow Are you the same Dr. Marty Snow that owes me $25? Greg Adding nothing of value (even if you consider DVP) since 1997. From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 15:07:35 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 12 15:07:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <071220052207.26628.42D43F27000BBD940000680422007613940E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi Robert, Actually, I agree with you. Sorry to reverse positions on you in mid-stream, Mattias. It's the negative in the VC that threw me. It actually puts the onus of clearing both hexes back on the Germans. Anytime you have two conditions separated by an "and", both conditions have to be true in order for the entire statement to be true. So you can break the VC into two separate questions: "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5?" and "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I9?" If the answer to either question is "No" or "False", then the entire statement "The German player wins" is False. Sorry for my confusion. Dave Reenstra > Listers, > > Dave Reenstra agreed with Mattias Rvnnblom about understanding the VC. > The VC were given to us as: > "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on > or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." > > I disagree. > > I read it as the Germans win by clearing *both* areas. > > I will admit, the VC could have been clearer. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From pferraro at greenepa.net Tue Jul 12 18:25:47 2005 From: pferraro at greenepa.net (Paul Ferraro) Date: Tue Jul 12 18:25:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Admin Alert: Militias, Commisars, Beserk SMCs, etc.. Message-ID: Alrighty then, I think we've had a good enough go at the latest episode of nearly-almost-but-not-quite off-topic discussion on the ASLML. I don't think I even need to mention the subject material. Please take any further discussion private. It'd be a shame to moderate the list for a while, msotly because I'll be away for the next 4 days and won't have any access to email or the ASML admin interface. Paul Ferraro From danielzucker at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 18:33:06 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Tue Jul 12 18:33:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASLOK XX - October 2nd thru 9th References: <001401c57ddb$e7037340$6401a8c0@MOOSE> <6.2.1.2.0.20050701145329.01dba728@mail.alltel.net> Message-ID: <00e401c5874a$d3f6e570$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I'm looking to room with someone I plan on being there the whole week. Please contact me off list Daniel ASLOK XX is October 2nd thru 9th this year. ASL World Cup action opens the "official" tourney action, followed by "Mark Nixon Minis" kicking off on Wednesday the 5th and the "Grofaz" main tourney on Thursday the 6th. Don't miss out on the perfect way to celebrate the 20th anniversary of ASL - ASLOK XX in Greater Cleveland, OH. You can find pre-reg info, including paying via Paypal (allowing credit card payment) at: http://www.aslok.org/prereg.html Currently we're running at 30 pre-registrations so far, which compared to last year when we had zero at this time, means our attendance should be ~infinite this year (if my math is right). Don't be the only one in the ASL Universe to miss ASLOK XX! Flyers for those that have yet to pre-reg will be mailed out in July. I'm in the middle of transcribing the ASLOK mailing list addresses so if you have moved, or don't believe you're on the list and want a flyer/reminder, drop me an email with an updated address. Or better yet go ahead and pre-register either via mail or on-line and save ASLOK a stamp... Hope to see everyone in October for a celebration of ASL & ASLOK's 20th anniverseries... Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org [Hotel & pre-reg info follows - more details online at www.aslok.org] ASLOK HOTEL INFO AND PREREGISTRATION PROCEDURE QUALITY INN & SUITES 7230 ENGLE ROAD MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS, OHIO 44130 440-243-4040 . Make your hotel reservations with the Quality Inn. Rooms are $69.00 per night. Mention OKTOBERFEST for reduced rate (standard room rates are $40-$60 higher). Make your reservations with the hotel early as reduced rates end Sep. 19th. Free airport shuttle! Same hotel since 1996! . Before September 15th, 2005 send $25.00 to Bret Hildebran to preregister for ASLOK. It is $30.00 after that date and at the door. All figures are in US dollars. Check the web site's "Pre-Reg" for PayPal payment options, including payment via Credit Card. Do make sure to email your mini choices if paying via PayPal. . Specify T-shirt size and quantity if you want these: Medium, Large and EXTRA Large are $10.00 each. Double-X-Large are $13.00 each, Triple- X-Large are $15.00 each. Quad-X-Large-Tall are $18.00 each. T-shirts are available in numbers based on pre-reg sales; order now to make sure you get what you want! . Be sure to request Mini-Tournaments you would like to enter. You will be able to preregister for only one per day, but give a rank in priority each day; which will put you in your topmost pick which is still available for each day. Some Mini's will run more than once; where ASL fans demand it, we give it to them! . Include your full name, address, phone number and email. If you would like to receive a mailed confirmation, please also include a SASE, or include a note with your email for an electronic confirmation. _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From danielzucker at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 18:37:43 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Tue Jul 12 18:37:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Admin Alert: Militias, Commisars, Beserk SMCs, etc.. References: Message-ID: <00e901c5874b$78ab33f0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> WOW!!!! Paul is still doing the admin-mod thing, I'm impressed. I thought you gave it up years ago and retired to just playing and let the list go to hell in a bucket, (I use the last 50 or so posts as the reason for my thought) its a dirty jog but you are the man for the job!!! ;-) Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Ferraro" To: "ASLML" Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Aslml] Admin Alert: Militias, Commisars, Beserk SMCs, etc.. > > Alrighty then, I think we've had a good enough go at the latest episode of > nearly-almost-but-not-quite off-topic discussion on the ASLML. > > I don't think I even need to mention the subject material. > > Please take any further discussion private. > > It'd be a shame to moderate the list for a while, msotly because I'll be > away for the next 4 days and won't have any access to email or the ASML > admin interface. > > Paul Ferraro > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From jmmcleod at mts.net Tue Jul 12 19:00:31 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Tue Jul 12 19:11:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt References: <20050712.143624.11028.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <000201c58750$1ef6ee80$2027c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Gentlemen, Robert wrote, > Listers, > > Dr. Snow, IMHO, you are wrong in supporting Mr. Pitcavage. Mr. Pitcavage > is/was wrong by _adding_ all of the additional stuff about Mr. Lindstedt. > Tate was NOT "assuming it's the same guy." Tate never even said such. > All Pitcavage had to ask was, "Does anyone know this Mr. Lindstedt from > MO who used to write for OAF?". That would have been appropriate! I agree with Tate, Robert and all the others who support their POV. Mark's asking about an old ASLer is one thing, implying he may be the things Mark said is quite another and should not be allowed to be posted to this list. Mark then calls Tate an a##hole because Tate disagrees with him and also for not agreeing with Mark in the past. So Tate disagrees with Mark, a lot of people do and a lot of people do not. Mark owes a few apologies to Tate and to this list. > Pitman, things were very nice and quite around these parts --- just ASL > stuff being discussed. Then you reappear with your question adding stuff > that (for now) was wholly unnecessary. Dude, go away with these posts! > > Tate calls you on the carpet and holds the flame to your feet for _your_ > insensitive post ---- and you start calling him names. Is that standard > practice with the ADL --- to start name calling when your mistakes are > brought to light? Mark, you owe Mr. Tate Rogers an apology. NOW! > > Dr. Snow, as one of the moderators, why don't you ask Mr. Pitcavage for > that apology? I agree. > I will close here. Oh, btw, Mark --- as per the California Constitution, > I am a member of the California Militia. I have no choice in the matter. > So, what does that make me? It makes you Robert M Hammond. :) Some time back, we talked about the ASLML policing its members for their behavior. This is one of those times that we should do some policing. =Jim= From nugteren at aanet.com.au Tue Jul 12 19:58:41 2005 From: nugteren at aanet.com.au (Andrew Nugteren) Date: Tue Jul 12 19:59:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] New Online Rating System Message-ID: StrategyZone Online is proud to announce some exciting changes that have just taken place to our online WARS ladder! For the first time, WARS now incorporates a rating system similar to that used in the past by AREA and OARS. In short, players gain and lose rating points based on the strength of their opponents. We have converted our entire WARS database across to the new ladder system, so any game reports you have submitted to WARS in the past have helped build up our initial ratings data. To help understand how the ratings system works, every player begins with a rating of 5000 and gains/loses points based on each game report that is submitted. For example, a very good player who defeats a very weak player will hardly gain any points at all. But if the very weak player should beat the very good player, a significant number of points will be gained by the weaker player (and lost by the stronger player). This means the top of the ladder will no longer be populated just by players who have played a large number of gains? to get to the top and stay at the top, you will need to play consistently well and against good players. No more playing newbies to "pad" your score! If you are not yet registered for WARS, visit the Ladder Control Centre to sign up and start playing, as the more game reports we have in the system the more accurate and useful a tool the ratings will be. In time, we hope WARS will become for the wider ASL community the tool for one-stop reporting that combines and tracks both player rating (AREA/OARS) and scenario results and balance (ROAR). From domorich at sprintmail.com Tue Jul 12 20:31:10 2005 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (Rich Domovic) Date: Tue Jul 12 20:29:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt Message-ID: Well you could go to one of the free tracking services on the internet and find that there is one Martin Lindstedt in Missouri, that he was born in December 1957 and lives at 338 Rabbit Track Road, Granby, MO. But more importantly, since ASLers use prisoner interrogation, do they still beat their wives? Rich From denis at teachlinux.com Tue Jul 12 20:45:04 2005 From: denis at teachlinux.com (Denis Dimick) Date: Tue Jul 12 20:45:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] G-Mail invite(s) needed Message-ID: <1156.192.168.100.1.1121226304.squirrel@192.168.100.1> I know this is WAY off topic, at least I'm not asking about Martin Lindstedt. (ducks) Does anyone have one or two G-mail invites they would like to give me? Thanks, Denis From danielzucker at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 20:53:51 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Tue Jul 12 20:54:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt References: Message-ID: <002901c5875e$82b56a10$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> WHAT!! Where's the F*&!ing zip code and phone # Just kidding, its amazing what is on line out there. So chances are that this is the same guy. Years ago I used to do reenacting (Rev.War, Civ. War and W2) I meat a lot of ....interesting people. and over the years I've seen a few of them on that TV show , you know the one where the guest star gets to where the silver bracelets after driving a 100 MPH, or on flyers in the post office. But never a one of them ever played ASL. And that's why I play ASL and don't dress up in funny cloths any more. Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Domovic" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:31 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Aslml] Martin Lindstedt > Well you could go to one of the free tracking services on the internet and > find that there is one Martin Lindstedt in Missouri, that he was born in > December 1957 and lives at 338 Rabbit Track Road, Granby, MO. > > But more importantly, since ASLers use prisoner interrogation, do they > still > beat their wives? > > Rich > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 13 00:40:38 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 13 00:40:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Evolutionary gaming In-Reply-To: References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050712153628.01ca7ec8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:21:01 -0600 (MDT), Marty Snow wrote: >Most people see wargamers as just one step >up the evolutionary ladder from RPG-ers, and I don't want to see us >devolve. Hey! As someone who usually spends more time per week playing RPGs than playing ASL (not that I wouldn't play more ASL if I could!), I object to this unhealthy characterisation of RPG gamers being "less-evolved" than wargamers. It's been firmly my experience that wargamers and roleplayers are *equally* distant from the human genetic norm! "Still waiting for that black monolith, I'm afraid." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From hofors at lysator.liu.se Wed Jul 13 00:55:02 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Wed Jul 13 00:55:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <071220052207.26628.42D43F27000BBD940000680422007613940E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> References: <071220052207.26628.42D43F27000BBD940000680422007613940E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: dreenstra@comcast.net writes: > Hi Robert, > > Actually, I agree with you. Sorry to reverse positions on you in > mid-stream, Mattias. It's the negative in the VC that threw me. It > actually puts the onus of clearing both hexes back on the Germans. > OK, no problem. > Anytime you have two conditions separated by an "and", both > conditions have to be true in order for the entire statement to be > true. So you can break the VC into two separate questions: > > "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5?" > and > "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I9?" > So what you are saying is that NOT (A AND B) <-> NOT A AND NOT B? That's a little confusing, since De Morgan's law of logic says that NOT (A AND B) <-> (NOT A) OR (NOT B). Notice the 'OR'. What you can do to remove the negative (NOT) in the VC is to rewrite it to say when the Allied wins, I believe. "The Allied wins if there are Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." I think you can do that, since the Allied VC are (NOT German-VC), per A26.3. And NOT (NOT A) <-> A. Regards, Mattias From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 13 01:47:20 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 13 01:46:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 In-Reply-To: <004301c58712$51949420$8150020a@JZTHOMPS> References: <004301c58712$51949420$8150020a@JZTHOMPS> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:48:34 -0500, "Jeff Thompson" wrote: >What's the playing time on Hill 621? I've played over 400 scenarios over >the last 10 years and still haven't played this one. For its size, it plays reasonably quickly. I know Neal Andrews and I got through it at a fair clip, which considering we're both slow as tortoises is something to note. And yes, you should play it. *Everybody* should play Hill 621. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From swfancher at mindspring.com Tue Jul 12 16:31:48 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 13 02:14:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt In-Reply-To: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <44akag$117hoq0@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050712193023.01d0c2b0@mindspring.com> My money says that a thread has recently started on the Forums about the ASLML and he decided that he needed to come here and spice things up a little bit so anyone looking at the ASLML for the first time would get the impression that it is like this all the time. Just like the last time. At 01:15 PM 7/12/2005, Tate Rogers wrote: > > From: Marty Snow > > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue AM 11:03:41 CDT > > To: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > Subject: Re: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > > > > It seems entirely on-topic for someone to ask if anybody knows the > > whereabouts of a former ASL player. > >That wasn't the question being asked and you know it. It ain't like >"Pitman" was looking for a match with the guy. > >Asking about the criminal status of an ASL player doesn't seem very >relavent for the ASLML...at least not to me. It would be the same as >someone coming on the list and asking if... >"Hey, does anybody know if John Doe still beats his wife?" >"Anybody know the whereabout of that drug addict John Doe?" > > > For all we know, one of his opponents > > could chime in that the ASL-playing Lindstedt moved to Florida in 1997 and > > is not at all the guy in the papers. Or maybe it is the same guy. Does > > anybody have an answer to the question about the whereabouts of the > > ASL-playing Martin Lindstedt? > >The "Pitman" should have simply asked about the where abouts of the >guy. Adding all the other stuff about being a militia member and >sexual behavior was totally inappropriate especially since "Pitman" >had no earthly idea whether it was the same person. Now the poor >guys name, on the ASLML anway, is forever going to be associated >with crime and right wing militias. > >It is just another example of his rude, inconsiderate, and >insensitive nature. > > > > > Pitcavage's question is not political at all. Politics won't come into > > play until we find out the answer. > >"Pitman" is Director of Fact-Finding for the Anti-Defamation >League...there is only one reason he would be seeking info on this >guy...unless you think he was looking for a game with a right wing >nut and/or sex offender. The ASLML is not here to help him do his job. > > >Later- > >Tater (One Mean Spud!) >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From kingbilly at actewagl.net.au Wed Jul 13 02:24:26 2005 From: kingbilly at actewagl.net.au (King Billy) Date: Wed Jul 13 02:24:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] AAR, AP8 A bloody harvest Message-ID: <42D4DDCA.5030903@actewagl.net.au> The bravest Polish squad in the World (or the saga of AP8) This Tuesday evening saw me facing John in our weekly group meeting. John had contacted me earlier to tell me he would be running a little late. I told him that I would pick something short and would set up as the defender prior to his arrival. I then went to my scenario bank and started searching. This one looked good, but a bit big. That one has to many overlays, hmm, what about this one?. AP8, A Bloody Harvest. I was yet to play a scenario out of Action Pack 2, and this little one seemed to fit the mark. It pits nine Polish 1^st line squads with two leaders, an mmg and 2 lmgs against twelve 468 German squads, three leaders, a mmg and 3 lmgs, representing the SS Regiment Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, although and SSR declared that they were not to be treated as SS. The Germans have to enter from the south (GG hexrow) of board 43, and clear all good order Polish mmc from within two hexes of N8, basically capturing all of the buildings in the area. A simple little scenario that offered a range of options to both sides. I was not aware of the errata, and had set up with the two lmgs. John graciously allowed this to continue, although we did agree to give the Germans the balance, an extra turn. The errata, I am informed, removed the two lmgs from the Polish, but grants the squads spaying fire. I forewent that change. I set up with some squads forward, including one in X9 and another with an lmg in a trench in Y7. Another trench was in W9 as a fallback position for the squad in X9. These troops were the ?tripwire? designed to keep the Germans honest, by limiting their ability to rush up the middle. The 8-1 leader, a squad and the mmg were set up in the 1^st floor location of O7 as an over-watch. Other troops were spread in the wheat field and on the left. John entered with the bulk moving down the west side, with a squad and a half moving down the east , and a firepower force, including the mmg and the 9-2 leader, coming down the centre. This put a bit of pressure on the squad at X9, which was presented with ?a target rich environment?. Despite breaking a half squad and pinning a squad, they were left facing a large force. Sure enough, in the advance fire phase the Germans formed a multi-hex fire-group, causing a 1MC. The Polish squad rolled a 2, HOB ! They then went berserk. Wow, the first time I have used my 4-5-10 red counters (thanks Eddie). The next Polish turn saw these brave lads rush forward into a storm of fire. The brave lads, of course, died. Well, the fall back trench was not going to get much use, but I was happy to see my brave lads mount such a counterattack against the nasty invaders. The second German turn saw the Germans move up to the AA and Z hex-row ready to blast away the defenders. They included two squads, an mmg, an lmg, and a 9-2 leader in AA7, and another large force in Z8. It was time to make decisions for the guys in Y7. Do I skulk away, or do I stay another turn to slow him down a little longer. I chose to stick it out. I figured that if my squad broke I could run back through the grain, towards the victory area. Any damage I did in my fire phase would slow him down a little. Also, his kill stack had to make a decision. Blast away at the squad in the trench at Y7 with 16 flat, or take the long shot at the mmg in the window at O7 at 8+1. Normally I would not stay in the upper level location, having skulked away, but because I wanted to divide John?s fire, I stayed. John chose to blast the troops in the trench with his kill stack, but rolled boxcars, breaking the lmg. I felt lucky, and caused some casualties as his Western troops tried to cross the road, but also rolled a 12, breaking my lmg. John moved a squad into Z5, and another into X8. They fired in the advance fire, resulting in the squad in Y7 to be encircled. My third turn also saw me considering my options. I could try to get the squad out of Y7, but it would take a fair bit more to do, and expose them to a huge amount of fire. Being encircled their moral was reduced by one, and with forces on either side it would be impossible to rout away. The brave lads decided to stick to their hard dug trench. Surprisingly, both John and I repaired our lmgs. After maneuver and fire, John let rip with the kill stack on the entrenched troops, only to roll an 11. They had lived again. Encircled, sucking up fire like a sponge, the troops finally took a 1MC. Oh well, they had done a sterling job. But it was not over yet. Another two on the MC saw HOB and the squad go beserk!! Two in one game, how good is that! John is no fool, and during his advance phase moved all of his troops, except the kill stack, further away than the machine gun armed, 9-2 leader led, stack. I had no choice but to move into either Z6 or Z7 at the beginning of my next movement phase, facing no less than a 30 ?4 shot, and certain oblivion. Certain, well, perhaps not. I still had a squad with mmg, lead by an 8-1 in first level of O7. In the prep fire I shot at the kill stack at 2 flat. Yes, you guessed it, the leader and both squads broke as to the 1MC result. Of course, when John had moved his other forces further way, he moved them to positions where the could not get a clear shot at the beserkers as they raced across the road, although he did get a 4+1 shot at them, and to prove that the dice gods have no favorites, caused them to casualty reduce. The remaining half squad jumped onto the broken troops in AA7. They fired in the advance fire, causing an MC, wounding the leader and casualty reducing a squad. The Germans limped away in the rout phase to Z8, leaving the battle crazed Poles looking for more kills. We were barely aware of Steve giving Newbie Paul a sound trashing, and the laughter of Andrew and Simon as the Japanese and Philipinos battled it out. All was focused on the brave little half squad. The next turn saw the five brave Poles race towards the mixed force in Z8. They finally died in AA8. Poor John made a brave face of his continued attack, but it was obvious the fight had gone out of the parade ground Germans, who obviously spent more time polishing the boots than at the machine gun firing range. The game petered out when John moved two squads and a hero into CC against a half squad in R8. He smile as he rolled a 4 soon changed to a frown as I rolled?, you guessed it, another 2, creating a leader and killing a squad and hero. A great game, with a considerable amount of luck for both sides, but more so for me than John. Regardless of the outcome, the game will live on in ASL legend as the game that saw the bravest Polish squad ever! Bill Brodie Canberra, Australia. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - Release Date: 7/12/2005 From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 05:53:45 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Wed Jul 13 05:54:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ML and lost lost ASLers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <332a4d0305071305536ca91e1e@mail.gmail.com> not to mention high-functioning geeks :-D -CT On 7/12/05, gd wrote: > > You and I may be smart enough to realize that there's no > > connection between playing war games and being a sociopath, > > but that doesn't mean that everyone is. > > Have you seen the rulebook? Come on, every single ASLer should be > considered..... > > Oh wait, I'm thinking of masochist not sociopath. > > Never mind. > > > Marty Snow > > Are you the same Dr. Marty Snow that owes me $25? > > Greg > Adding nothing of value (even if you consider DVP) since 1997. > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 13 06:02:28 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 13 06:02:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The "Pitman" and the ASLML Message-ID: <440397$eci3i7@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Seth W Fancher > Date: 2005/07/12 Tue PM 06:31:48 CDT > To: Tate Rogers , Marty Snow , > "Pitcavage, Mark" > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: Re: Re: [Aslml] RE: Martin Lindstedt > > My money says that a thread has recently started on the Forums about > the ASLML and he decided that he needed to come here and spice things > up a little bit so anyone looking at the ASLML for the first time > would get the impression that it is like this all the time. Just > like the last time. Naaa...the "Pitman" does this same kind of crap on the forums. Why just recently on the forums, he insulted other scenario designers by calling them "lazy" if they don't measure up to his expectations for historical research. He has yet to admit that calling other designers "lazy" was wrong...just as he will never admit that the "Martin Lindstedt" post was wrong. Instead it is all just a "personal vendetta". Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From victor.hedwig at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 06:46:30 2005 From: victor.hedwig at gmail.com (Victor Hedwig) Date: Wed Jul 13 06:46:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Need playtesters for new scen pack! Message-ID: <62047fa6050713064675b8e612@mail.gmail.com> Desert pack one! WCE Gladiator! From MPitcavage at adl.org Wed Jul 13 06:53:45 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Wed Jul 13 06:54:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB7129F@nymail.adl.org> "Naaa...the "Pitman" does this same kind of crap on the forums. Why just recently on the forums, he insulted other scenario designers by calling them 'lazy' if they don't measure up to his expectations for historical research." Tate, you are an incredible liar. How dare you twist what I said in such a fashion. I said those people who don't do *any* research when they design a scenario and instead simply label a generic scenario "representative" are being lazy. You know exactly what I said, because I repeated it many times in response to your repeated attacks, and it is incredibly dishonest of you to once again twist my words, this time in a forum where there will be people who would not have had a chance to see what I *actually* wrote. From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 13 07:13:37 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 13 07:14:14 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML Message-ID: <4403b0$16oarjc@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > Seth W Fancher , > Marty Snow > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > Seth W Fancher , > Marty Snow > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > Tate, you are an incredible liar. How dare you twist what I said in such a > fashion. I said those people who don't do *any* research when they design a > scenario and instead simply label a generic scenario "representative" are > being lazy. You know exactly what I said, because I repeated it many times > in response to your repeated attacks, and it is incredibly dishonest of you > to once again twist my words, this time in a forum where there will be > people who would not have had a chance to see what I *actually* wrote. > ...sigh...some designers are "lazy" and anyone who call's you on it are liars. You (the "Pitman") expect (i.e., "the _Pitman's_ expectation") some research to be done...if not (i.e., "not meeting the _Pitman's_ expectation") you say the designer is "lazy". Now, please tell me how I lied. Again, publicly calling people "lazy" simply becuase they don't hold research as sacred as you is _WRONG_. You can equivacate what you said all you want...it was still an unfair, untrue, and wrong thing to say about people. From MPitcavage at adl.org Wed Jul 13 07:21:00 2005 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Wed Jul 13 07:21:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB712A1@nymail.adl.org> "Now, please tell me how I lied." Anybody who can read can see how you twisted what I actually said to make it seem like I said something quite different. And what is more, you did it on purpose, and you have repeatedly done that in the last week or two on this subject. You, sir, are a liar. From victor.hedwig at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 07:25:42 2005 From: victor.hedwig at gmail.com (Victor Hedwig) Date: Wed Jul 13 07:25:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB712A1@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576E0BB712A1@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <62047fa6050713072571180b2f@mail.gmail.com> I told you and all others what I'm busy whit! If you don't like it,Fuck off!Pitman!:) Everyone has the right to do things in his free time, You won't decide??Do you? Or are you from the Bush -clan? Vic On 7/13/05, Pitcavage, Mark wrote: > "Now, please tell me how I lied." > > Anybody who can read can see how you twisted what I actually said to make it > seem like I said something quite different. And what is more, you did it on > purpose, and you have repeatedly done that in the last week or two on this > subject. You, sir, are a liar. > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From victor.hedwig at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 07:30:05 2005 From: victor.hedwig at gmail.com (Victor Hedwig) Date: Wed Jul 13 07:30:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <4403b0$16oarjc@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <4403b0$16oarjc@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <62047fa605071307301c500e29@mail.gmail.com> Pitbull Calm or on the chain!!!! vic!!!:) On 7/13/05, Tate Rogers wrote: > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > > Seth W Fancher , > > Marty Snow > > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > > Seth W Fancher , > > Marty Snow > > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > > > Tate, you are an incredible liar. How dare you twist what I said in such a > > fashion. I said those people who don't do *any* research when they design a > > scenario and instead simply label a generic scenario "representative" are > > being lazy. You know exactly what I said, because I repeated it many times > > in response to your repeated attacks, and it is incredibly dishonest of you > > to once again twist my words, this time in a forum where there will be > > people who would not have had a chance to see what I *actually* wrote. > > > > ...sigh...some designers are "lazy" and anyone who call's you on it are liars. > > You (the "Pitman") expect (i.e., "the _Pitman's_ expectation") some research to be done...if not (i.e., "not meeting the _Pitman's_ expectation") you say the designer is "lazy". Now, please tell me how I lied. > > Again, publicly calling people "lazy" simply becuase they don't hold research as sacred as you is _WRONG_. You can equivacate what you said all you want...it was still an unfair, untrue, and wrong thing to say about people. > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From victor.hedwig at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 07:31:26 2005 From: victor.hedwig at gmail.com (Victor Hedwig) Date: Wed Jul 13 07:31:30 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <4403b0$16oarjc@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <4403b0$16oarjc@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <62047fa6050713073125b206e2@mail.gmail.com> Pitbull,easy:)) Or the chains on ya:) Victor! On 7/13/05, Tate Rogers wrote: > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > > Seth W Fancher , > > Marty Snow > > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > > > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 08:53:45 CDT > > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > > Seth W Fancher , > > Marty Snow > > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > > Subject: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > > > Tate, you are an incredible liar. How dare you twist what I said in such a > > fashion. I said those people who don't do *any* research when they design a > > scenario and instead simply label a generic scenario "representative" are > > being lazy. You know exactly what I said, because I repeated it many times > > in response to your repeated attacks, and it is incredibly dishonest of you > > to once again twist my words, this time in a forum where there will be > > people who would not have had a chance to see what I *actually* wrote. > > > > ...sigh...some designers are "lazy" and anyone who call's you on it are liars. > > You (the "Pitman") expect (i.e., "the _Pitman's_ expectation") some research to be done...if not (i.e., "not meeting the _Pitman's_ expectation") you say the designer is "lazy". Now, please tell me how I lied. > > Again, publicly calling people "lazy" simply becuase they don't hold research as sacred as you is _WRONG_. You can equivacate what you said all you want...it was still an unfair, untrue, and wrong thing to say about people. > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From rln22 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 08:57:59 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Wed Jul 13 08:58:03 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050712193023.01d0c2b0@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20050713155759.98549.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> Folks, thought I'd throw in a couple rules questions while you're all now finally reading the aslml... a) Is D5.33 the only rule discussing WHEN exactly one goes CE or BU? I ask this because I vaguely recall a rule that said one 'combines' changing this status with an MP during the MPh. But that is not stated here. My opponent's Panther has just begun its MPh CE. As his very first action, he wants to BU. Then start for one and roll away. My infantry want to shoot at his CE...am I allowed? b) Perry has STILL not answered my rather fundamental question about control in Pegasus Bridge, and neither the list nor the forums seemed interested in trying to help...so I'll try again. In the last RtPh of Day One, a broken British hs routs to a German controlled foxhole. RePh: broken mmc are rallied, then setup areas are drawn. Control rules state that control is only gained 'during play'. RePh rules state both that the RePh begins 'after' the end of the scenario, yet states that the first three steps of the RePh bring about 'scenario end'. Alas, does the suddenly rallied hs gain control of the foxhole during the RePh? Rob ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 13 09:01:34 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:02:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML Message-ID: <43vthu$11fu0am@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Pitcavage, Mark" > Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 09:21:00 CDT > To: "'Tate Rogers'" , > Seth W Fancher , > Marty Snow > CC: "'aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net'" > Subject: RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML > > "Now, please tell me how I lied." > > Anybody who can read can see how you twisted what I actually said to make it > seem like I said something quite different. And what is more, you did it on > purpose, and you have repeatedly done that in the last week or two on this > subject. You, sir, are a liar. Ah, but the real meat of the question is... Am I "lazy" if I don't do research. Being a "liar" is one thing...but being a "lazy" "liar" is something all togther different. Sorry for wasting everyone's (EXC: the "Pitman") time on this...just wanted to point out that it wasn't just the ASLML, the "Pitman" is always like this... Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From rln22 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 09:10:56 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:11:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <43vthu$11fu0am@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> > Sorry for wasting everyone's (EXC: the "Pitman") > time on this...just wanted to point out that it > wasn't just the ASLML, the "Pitman" is always like > this... > Later- > > Tater (One Mean Spud!) and hopefully most everyone on this list also knows fully well what 'Tate' "is always like"... favorite moment of this exchange: Tate mincing about Pitman being 'rude' and 'inconsiderate'....harharharhahrahrharharharhraharh!! Irony at its sweetest. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Jul 13 09:20:47 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:22:46 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control Message-ID: Hi, Robert Nelson wrote: > a) Is D5.33 the only rule discussing WHEN exactly one > goes CE or BU? I ask this because I vaguely recall a > rule that said one 'combines' changing this status > with an MP during the MPh. But that is not stated > here. An AFV can generally go CE/BU at any time, either simultaneously with an MP expenditure, or before/between/after MP expenditures. > My opponent's Panther has just begun its MPh CE. > As his very first action, he wants to BU. Then start > for one and roll away. My infantry want to shoot at > his CE...am I allowed? > It depends. If he declared going BU before, or simultaneously with, the Start MP, then you don't get to shoot at him while CE, since you only get to shoot after the Start MP. However, if he first declared the Start MP as a separate action, then you have a chance to declare a shot before he can go BU. > b) Perry has STILL not answered my rather fundamental > question about control in Pegasus Bridge, and neither > the list nor the forums seemed interested in trying to > help...so I'll try again. In the last RtPh of Day One, > a broken British hs routs to a German controlled > foxhole. RePh: broken mmc are rallied, then setup > areas are drawn. Control rules state that control is > only gained 'during play'. RePh rules state both that > the RePh begins 'after' the end of the scenario, yet > states that the first three steps of the RePh bring > about 'scenario end'. Alas, does the suddenly rallied > hs gain control of the foxhole during the RePh? > I've said before that I think not, because the general control rules only applies during the normal game. I see that it is ambigious though... From dreenstra at comcast.net Wed Jul 13 09:26:54 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:26:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control Message-ID: <071320051626.5568.42D540CE000465A7000015C022073000330E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi Rob, > > Folks, > > thought I'd throw in a couple rules questions while > you're all now finally reading the aslml... > > a) Is D5.33 the only rule discussing WHEN exactly one > goes CE or BU? I ask this because I vaguely recall a > rule that said one 'combines' changing this status > with an MP during the MPh. But that is not stated > here. My opponent's Panther has just begun its MPh CE. > As his very first action, he wants to BU. Then start > for one and roll away. My infantry want to shoot at > his CE...am I allowed? Short answer is no. Long answer is . . . NRBH. :) I asked a similar question long ago and the consensus on this forum was that the CE/BU status change was essentially independent of MP expenditure. Actually, now that I think more about it, my original question involved an AFV using BFF, going CE, expending a Stop MP and firing. As the defender, I wanted to fire on the BU to CE status change, before the Stop MP. The consensus was that this wasn't allowed, though I don't recall specific rules I can cite. > > b) Perry has STILL not answered my rather fundamental > question about control in Pegasus Bridge, and neither > the list nor the forums seemed interested in trying to > help...so I'll try again. In the last RtPh of Day One, > a broken British hs routs to a German controlled > foxhole. RePh: broken mmc are rallied, then setup > areas are drawn. Control rules state that control is > only gained 'during play'. RePh rules state both that > the RePh begins 'after' the end of the scenario, yet > states that the first three steps of the RePh bring > about 'scenario end'. Alas, does the suddenly rallied > hs gain control of the foxhole during the RePh? I could pretty much flip a coin on this one. As you state, the first steps of the RePh are kind of hazy as to whether or not they occur during play or after scenario end. I'd probably lean toward considering that part of the RePh as "during play", since a step of the RePh specifically ends the scenario. If you're willing to accept that there are only two states, "play" and "after play", then I think you have to accept that the RePh step that brings about scenario end separates them. So anything that is done before that point is "play". In short, the MMC is rallied and gains control of the Foxhole. > > Rob HtH, Dave Reenstra P.S. Things have settled down now job-wise for me. Where do we stand on "Debacle"? My move or yours? Or do you want to scratch it and start something else? From john at winhaven.net Wed Jul 13 09:29:59 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:30:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <43vthu$11fu0am@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <200507131630.j6DGU7ef019088@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Oh, the joy of it all... From jbarber at meic.org Wed Jul 13 09:39:14 2005 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:39:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <200507131630.j6DGU7ef019088@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> References: <200507131630.j6DGU7ef019088@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: It's official: We now know the sound of one hand clapping. -- Jeff Barber From dreenstra at comcast.net Wed Jul 13 09:39:17 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jul 13 09:39:20 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <071320051639.13137.42D543B5000017640000335122058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi Mattias, > dreenstra@comcast.net writes: > > > Hi Robert, > > > > Actually, I agree with you. Sorry to reverse positions on you in > > mid-stream, Mattias. It's the negative in the VC that threw me. It > > actually puts the onus of clearing both hexes back on the Germans. > > > > OK, no problem. > > > Anytime you have two conditions separated by an "and", both > > conditions have to be true in order for the entire statement to be > > true. So you can break the VC into two separate questions: > > > > "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5?" > > and > > "Are there no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I9?" > > > > So what you are saying is that NOT (A AND B) <-> NOT A AND NOT B? I guess. > > That's a little confusing, since De Morgan's law of logic says that > NOT (A AND B) <-> (NOT A) OR (NOT B). Notice the 'OR'. I don't know about De Morgan. I usually fall back on boolean logic, which I admit tends to get me in trouble in interpreting ASL VC. ;) > > What you can do to remove the negative (NOT) in the VC is to rewrite > it to say when the Allied wins, I believe. As I said earlier, I believe the negative is the root cause of the confusion so that seems like a good idea to me. > > "The Allied wins if there are Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or > adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." I think you can do that, since the > Allied VC are (NOT German-VC), per A26.3. And NOT (NOT A) <-> A. > I'd still argue that the Germans have to clear both hexes, so your re-written VC should be "The Allied wins if there are Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and/or 8I9." > Regards, > Mattias > HtH, Dave Reenstra From homercles11 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 13 10:03:04 2005 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Wed Jul 13 10:03:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See the problem is that Paul F said he was going on vacation for 4 days, thus the wolves come out!! BACK!!! BACK!!! Paul Kenny Owner of Fanatic Enterprises makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids Check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jeff Barber To: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: RE: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:39:14 -0600 It's official: We now know the sound of one hand clapping. -- Jeff Barber _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From rjmosher at direcway.com Wed Jul 13 10:17:09 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Wed Jul 13 10:18:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713120248.01cb7ee8@pop3.direcway.com> At 04:51 PM 7/12/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: >How is what I wrote incorrect? Because it is wrong. Not right. In error. >The VCs state that the Germans win if the Allied player doesn't have GO >MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to two different hexes Yep. And that is ALL it says, it does NOT list/write-out/give/tell ya ANY Allied VCs, none/nada/zip. So there is a lack of ALLIED VCs, there are no Allied VCs, squat ALLIED VCs -- Can I say it?..there is an ABSENCE of Allied VCs. >So the Allied player denies the German player from fulfilling the VC only >if Allied units are adjacent to *both* hexes. And this is written where? in the scenario card? in a tome on boolean logic, or an old school book on debates? >A26.3 just says that if the scenario only lists VC for one side, the other >side wins if that side doesn't fulfill the VC. Well, do'h! "Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario lists the Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by avoiding those Victory Conditions." >So there is no "draw" if the side with VC listed fails to fulfill them And this interpretation is from where? A note in the rule book, back of a cereal box, in a cracker-jack box? > the scenario doesn't have to list VC for both sides explicitly. Yep. And if it doesn't: "Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario lists the Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by avoiding those Victory Conditions." The only VCs listed are for the Germans, therefore by the Rules in the ASLRB(not some tormented logic), the Allies win by avoiding those German VCs. Or to simplify: if the German doesn't fulfill his VCs, the Allies win. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From rjmosher at direcway.com Wed Jul 13 10:18:33 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Wed Jul 13 10:18:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713121818.01cd0e98@pop3.direcway.com> At 12:03 PM 7/13/2005, Paul Kenny wrote: >Paul F said he was going on vacation for 4 days, thus the wolves come out!! Well, at least one. :) For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From dreenstra at comcast.net Wed Jul 13 13:12:35 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jul 13 13:12:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <071320052012.1305.42D575B3000B979B0000051922073000330E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi Ron, > At 04:51 PM 7/12/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: > >How is what I wrote incorrect? > > Because it is wrong. Not right. In error. > > >The VCs state that the Germans win if the Allied player doesn't have GO > >MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to two different hexes > > Yep. And that is ALL it says, it does NOT list/write-out/give/tell ya ANY > Allied VCs, none/nada/zip. > > So there is a lack of ALLIED VCs, there are no Allied VCs, squat ALLIED VCs -- > > Can I say it?..there is an ABSENCE of Allied VCs. Yeah, you can say it if all you want to do is point out the obvious. I don't think anyone was saying they had issue with the VCs for the Allied player or lack thereof. If you were paying attention, you would realize that the original question had to do with how the VCs for the Axis player were phrased. Specifically, whether the Germans needed to clear just one of the listed hexes or both hexes of Allied units. Since I'm scanning the rest of your post and just see a bunch of smarmy, high-handed crap, I'll go ahead and cut it here. If you want to contribute an answer to the actual question, feel free to post again. Dave Reenstra > At 04:51 PM 7/12/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: > >How is what I wrote incorrect? > > Because it is wrong. Not right. In error. > > >The VCs state that the Germans win if the Allied player doesn't have GO > >MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to two different hexes > > Yep. And that is ALL it says, it does NOT list/write-out/give/tell ya ANY > Allied VCs, none/nada/zip. > > So there is a lack of ALLIED VCs, there are no Allied VCs, squat ALLIED VCs -- > > Can I say it?..there is an ABSENCE of Allied VCs. > > >So the Allied player denies the German player from fulfilling the VC only > >if Allied units are adjacent to *both* hexes. > > And this is written where? in the scenario card? in a tome on boolean > logic, or an old school book on debates? > > >A26.3 just says that if the scenario only lists VC for one side, the other > >side wins if that side doesn't fulfill the VC. > > Well, do'h! "Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario lists the > Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by avoiding > those Victory Conditions." > > >So there is no "draw" if the side with VC listed fails to fulfill them > > And this interpretation is from where? A note in the rule book, back of a > cereal box, in a cracker-jack box? > > > the scenario doesn't have to list VC for both sides explicitly. > > Yep. And if it doesn't: "Whenever the Victory Conditions of a scenario > lists the Victory requirements for only one side, the other side wins by > avoiding those Victory Conditions." > > The only VCs listed are for the Germans, therefore by the Rules in the > ASLRB(not some tormented logic), the Allies win by avoiding those German VCs. > > Or to simplify: if the German doesn't fulfill his VCs, the Allies win. > > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL > From rjmosher at direcway.com Wed Jul 13 14:14:57 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Wed Jul 13 14:15:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713161010.01c20e28@pop3.direcway.com> At 03:12 PM 7/13/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: >If you were paying attention, you would realize that the original question >had to do with how the VCs for the Axis player were >phrased. Specifically, whether the Germans needed to clear just one of >the listed hexes or both hexes of Allied units. Someone needs to pay attention..yep. Here's the original poster's post: "My interpretation would be that the Allied need GO MMC/AFV on/adjacent to both 8I5 and 8I9 to win. Otherwise, there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 _and_ 8I9." A26.3 resolves the issue, unless you need to torture the ASLRB via the debating society/logic stuff. ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From hofors at lysator.liu.se Wed Jul 13 15:43:55 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Wed Jul 13 15:44:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713161010.01c20e28@pop3.direcway.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713161010.01c20e28@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: ron mosher writes: > At 03:12 PM 7/13/2005, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: > > If you were paying attention, you would realize that the original > > question had to do with how the VCs for the Axis player were > > phrased. Specifically, whether the Germans needed to clear just one > > of the listed hexes or both hexes of Allied units. > > Someone needs to pay attention..yep. > > Here's the original poster's post: > > "My interpretation would be that the Allied need GO MMC/AFV on/adjacent > to both 8I5 and 8I9 to win. Otherwise, there are no Good Order Allied > MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 _and_ 8I9." > > A26.3 resolves the issue, unless you need to torture the ASLRB via the > debating society/logic stuff. > > Could you please explain what you mean by "A26.3 resolves the issue"? Regards, Mattias From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Wed Jul 13 18:01:33 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Wed Jul 13 17:03:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Robert Nelson wrote: > and hopefully most everyone on this list also knows > fully well what 'Tate' "is always like"... > > favorite moment of this exchange: Tate mincing about > Pitman being 'rude' and > 'inconsiderate'....harharharhahrahrharharharhraharh!! > > Irony at its sweetest. I'll take you at your word Robert, since I have almost no idea what you (or anyone else involved in this 'discussion') is on about right now. But I did think it might be enlightening for the rest of you, including the list moderator, to hear something of the impression you are giving to a relative outsider right now - well perhaps :) BTW I'm an outsider two ways, being both a relatively recent ASL-er and female. fwiw: I killfiled M. Pitcavage (without knowing of his long history within the hobby, I have to admit) within 1 week of joining the list, because most of the posts I received from him were 0 to do with ASL and everything to do with slagging off listmembers. I'm just not interested in his (or anybody else's) ego trips; I joined for the ASL, and that's it. He's not the only one though; I confess that I have killfiled one other listmember for sheer obnoxiousness (my personal opinion of course) and was quite embarrassed to do so, since in a previous incarnation I successfully sold the guy stuff on eBay! Well never mind. So although the Perry Sez rules stuff and the questions and answers re: various points subject to potential different interpretations are very useful, and I've already benefited in terms of my play from various discussions on list, the continued public ego tripping does not give the new-ish member of the hobby the best impression. Nor does it give the best possible impression of some of the longest serving and best known grognards. War games already have a dodgy public image in some areas, this isn't helping! So : I would *quite* appreciate it if ASL discussion came to be the predominant feature of this list. And however light your touch, I would really really REALLY be glad if whoever moderates this list would step in and bring things back on topic. am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From daveolie at eastlink.ca Wed Jul 13 17:30:49 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Wed Jul 13 17:56:01 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <002801c5880e$9648cbc0$a64d8918@klis.com> Anna wrote: > So : I would *quite* appreciate it if ASL discussion came to be the > predominant feature of this list. And however light your touch, I would > really really REALLY be glad if whoever moderates this list would step > in and bring things back on topic. In fact, Paul stepped in nearly 24 hours ago to kill this thread, and yet it drags on. Enough, already. I have no regard for the Pitcavage, but I refrained from comment (until now, admittedly) our of respect for the moderator. There wasn't even anything Spudworthy in any of it. Meh. David "reads every frickin' post" Olie From garciagd at velocity.net Wed Jul 13 17:58:53 2005 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Wed Jul 13 17:57:55 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: Anna, Welcome to ASL. Do not worry about all the BS, these flame wars creep up from time to time. Its just something we have to deal with every now and then. Try to tone it out (I have been better at that lately). The list is a great place for picking up ASL info. If interested, check out the ASL section of consim world. www.consimworld.com and the ASL section of the War Forums: http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 There are also great information/discussions on these boards. I also find them easier to sift through. Peace Roger "All I want from tomorrow is to be better than today" -Bruce Hornsby, "Jacob's Ladder" From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Wed Jul 13 19:21:03 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Wed Jul 13 18:22:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <002801c5880e$9648cbc0$a64d8918@klis.com> References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> <002801c5880e$9648cbc0$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: <42D5CC0F.6010205@dial.pipex.com> David Olie wrote: > > In fact, Paul stepped in nearly 24 hours ago to kill this thread, and yet it > drags on. Oh duh, I just saw that post! many apologies to the list and moderator, I can't get to go on line every day and somehow I just missed it. Many thanks to all concerned. am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From swfancher at mindspring.com Wed Jul 13 18:36:37 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 13 18:40:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Looking for PBEM Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050713213024.01d04b50@mindspring.com> Listers I have room for another PBEM game on my card. I'll play either side. IFT preferred for the following scenarios: 8 The Fugitives AP3 A Breezeless Day AP11 Swamp Cats AP16 Danger Forward (ROAR 11:24 US so give the Italian the balance) Please reply directly. Thanks! Seth From robertthepastor at juno.com Wed Jul 13 22:55:06 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Wed Jul 13 23:22:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem Message-ID: <20050713.232113.2036.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Howdy! I was checking LOS on VASL board 39. The LOS string is stating hex BB8 is only level 1, when it is level 2. What is going on? Moreover, when checking LOS from 39CC8 (level 2) unto 39BB9, the LOS string states the LOS is blocked along the BB8 hexside. The problem is --- it is a *cliff* hexside! Okay, what gives?!? Who do I report this stuff to?? Finally, the LOS string states the LOS is good from 39CC8 to 47F9 when half-hex 39BB10 joins half-hex 47F10, and there are only *two* Orchard symbols, both in the 47F10 half. NOTE: To all of the VASL guys ----- THANK YOU for all of your hard work with VASL. I just thought you guys should know of these errors. Take care, Robert From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 14 00:56:03 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 14 00:56:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair In-Reply-To: <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 02:01:33 +0100, Anna Mancini wrote: >He's not the only one though; I confess that I have killfiled one other >listmember for sheer obnoxiousness (my personal opinion of course) and >was quite embarrassed to do so, since in a previous incarnation I >successfully sold the guy stuff on eBay! Well never mind. Ulp, I hope that wasn't me! Because I have a question to ask of you .... Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is not a hobby known for its attraction to females, I for one would be very interested in your perspective; what is it about the game that you enjoy, how long you've been playing, what got you started, that kind of stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 14 01:07:39 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 14 01:08:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem In-Reply-To: <20050713.232113.2036.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20050713.232113.2036.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:55:06 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >Howdy! I was checking LOS on VASL board 39. The LOS string is stating >hex BB8 is only level 1, when it is level 2. What is going on? I don't know. Mine says it's L2. This is with VASL 5.0, VASSAL 2.0.4. I don't know what version the board is, but VASL complains if you're using an out-of-date version, so I assume that it's whatever the current version is. Have you tried downloading that board again (by itself, not as part of a bundled file)? >Moreover, when checking LOS from 39CC8 (level 2) unto 39BB9, the LOS >string states the LOS is blocked along the BB8 hexside. The problem is >--- it is a *cliff* hexside! Okay, what gives?!? Who do I report this >stuff to?? LOS comes up clear (correctly) here. >Finally, the LOS string states the LOS is good from 39CC8 to 47F9 when >half-hex 39BB10 joins half-hex 47F10, and there are only *two* Orchard >symbols, both in the 47F10 half. LOS correctly shows as blocked here, due to the blind hex caused by the orchard hex in 47F10. >NOTE: To all of the VASL guys ----- THANK YOU for all of your hard work >with VASL. Amen to that. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 14 05:46:06 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 14 05:46:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713161010.01c20e28@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> At 05:43 PM 7/13/2005, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: >Could you please explain what you mean by "A26.3 resolves the issue"? The VC says "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." There are no Allied VCs in your scenario VCs. Only two German VCs(no Allied unit next to/on I5 is one of VCs, no Allied unit next to/on I9 is another of the VCs). So per A26.3(ASLRBv2), the Allied side "wins by avoiding those Victory Conditions". So the Allies win by having a unit next to/on either (or both) of the VC hexes. Don't really understand the need for the "argument", but would these VCs seem as confusing(in the same style): "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hex 8I5 and exit 1 MMC off Allied edge." "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs on or adjacent to hex 8I5 and not lose 10 CVPs." All three are identical VC structures, identifying 2 VCs that need to be met by the German, avoidance of either or both giving an Allied win. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From john at winhaven.net Thu Jul 14 07:06:32 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu Jul 14 07:06:53 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200507141406.j6EE6eoQ413656@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Just in case she has you blocked already... ;o) Bruce wrote: On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 02:01:33 +0100, Anna Mancini wrote: >He's not the only one though; I confess that I have killfiled one other >listmember for sheer obnoxiousness (my personal opinion of course) and >was quite embarrassed to do so, since in a previous incarnation I >successfully sold the guy stuff on eBay! Well never mind. Ulp, I hope that wasn't me! Because I have a question to ask of you .... Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is not a hobby known for its attraction to females, I for one would be very interested in your perspective; what is it about the game that you enjoy, how long you've been playing, what got you started, that kind of stuff. From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Thu Jul 14 07:55:13 2005 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Thu Jul 14 07:55:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Anna Mancini wrote: > So : I would *quite* appreciate it if ASL discussion came to be the > predominant feature of this list. And however light your touch, I would > really really REALLY be glad if whoever moderates this list would step > in and bring things back on topic. > The ASLML is so moderated with so light a touch that most folks don't even feel it. A poster has to be pretty bad to be whisked away in the dark of night by the Koala hit squad, but it does happen. However, there is _another_ ASL list that _is_ moderated for those who want it that way: ASLX Mailing List The ASLX list includes all the messages from the ASLML that pass through the moderator's filter, which means pretty much anything actually related to ASL. :-) Anyone is free to join either list. The subscribers to the ASLML have indicated they don't want to be moderated, so they're not. People who wanted a moderated list have migrated elsewhere. Marty Marty Snow marty.snow@lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Jul 14 09:38:14 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Thu Jul 14 09:39:01 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <20050714163837.2EC061BA9C@che.dreamhost.com> Ron writes: > > At 05:43 PM 7/13/2005, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: > >Could you please explain what you mean by "A26.3 resolves the issue"? > > The VC says > > "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs > on or adjacent to hexes 8I5 and 8I9." > > There are no Allied VCs in your scenario VCs. Only two German VCs(no > Allied > unit next to/on I5 is one of VCs, no Allied unit next to/on I9 is another > of the VCs). So per A26.3(ASLRBv2), the Allied side "wins by avoiding > those > Victory Conditions". > > So the Allies win by having a unit next to/on either (or both) of the VC > hexes. Again, I don't think Mattias (or anyone else who responded to this thread) ever brought up any questions about the lack of VC for the Allied side. Why you continue to do so is beyond me. The question is "how do you interpret the German VC?". Specifically, do they have to clear just one of the two hexes, or do they have to clear both of the hexes? > > Don't really understand the need for the "argument", but would these VCs > seem as confusing(in the same style): > > "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs > on or adjacent to hex 8I5 and exit 1 MMC off Allied edge." Yes that would be just as confusing. Which side has to exit the 1 MMC? > > "The German player wins if there are no Good Order Allied MMCs or AFVs > on or adjacent to hex 8I5 and not lose 10 CVPs." Which side has to avoid losing 10 CVPs? > > All three are identical VC structures, identifying 2 VCs that need to be > met by the German, avoidance of either or both giving an Allied win. I don't think the way you phrased those VCs make it clear in any way that both VC conditions are on the German player. I think all you've proven is that you can't write a coherent VC. Thanks for playing. Dave Reenstra From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 14 09:56:31 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 14 09:56:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <0IJM00FD1M46QL@a34-mta04.direcway.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> <0IJM00FD1M46QL@a34-mta04.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714115343.01c68978@pop3.direcway.com> At 11:38 AM 7/14/2005, David Reenstra wrote: >I don't think the way you phrased those VCs make it clear in any way that >both VC conditions are on the German player. Chuckle, good try at a dodge....but instead of checking the boolean stuff, better check your 4th thru 6th grade English papers..check out "subject" and "predicate". Thanks for playing, but the VCs are written in english... ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 14 10:13:14 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:13:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC Message-ID: <44akag$11jfacn@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Sheesh, you two, just get a room, will ya?? -Chas > > From: ron mosher > Date: 2005/07/14 Thu PM 12:56:31 EDT > To: dreenstra@comcast.net, "'ron mosher'" > CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: RE: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC > > At 11:38 AM 7/14/2005, David Reenstra wrote: > >I don't think the way you phrased those VCs make it clear in any way that > >both VC conditions are on the German player. > > Chuckle, good try at a dodge....but instead of checking the boolean stuff, > better check your 4th thru 6th grade English papers..check out "subject" > and "predicate". Thanks for playing, but the VCs are written in english... > > > ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 14 10:27:29 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:27:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher Message-ID: <43vthu$11kki7v@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Seth, please contact me off list at sidirezegh@charter.net when you get the chance... Regards, Chas From rdf at kelaroo.com Thu Jul 14 10:36:47 2005 From: rdf at kelaroo.com (Robert D. Feinstein) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:29:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 Message-ID: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46A@mail.kelaroo.com> Hi Guys - Been lurking along, dodging the latest flame wars and such - then someone asked about Hill 621! IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE GREATEST SCENARIOS EVERY MADE??? It plays quickly enough, especially if you follow this advice: If you are Russian, go for the earliest, most massive Human Wave(s) you can, and drive into an area that provides rally locations for the routing bloodied masses. Then, as the tanks come into play and the mayhem factor escalates, rally the survivors (if any) and do another Human Wave up the hill if possible. Firelanes be damned! (Well, take them out if you can...) It's a solid strategy and keeps the game moving. The earlier you put the hurt on the German defenders and observer, the better. Save your ASL-genius for the tank fight. You can play this scenario face-to-face in maybe 4 or 5 hours. I've done it in <6, and I am a seriously slow player! Just my 2 cents... - Robert > > Message: 27 > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:47:20 +1000 > From: Bruce Probst > Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 > To: "Jeff Thompson" > Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:48:34 -0500, "Jeff Thompson" > wrote: > > >What's the playing time on Hill 621? I've played over 400 scenarios over > >the last 10 years and still haven't played this one. > > For its size, it plays reasonably quickly. I know Neal Andrews and I got > through it at a fair clip, which considering we're both slow as tortoises is > something to note. > > And yes, you should play it. *Everybody* should play Hill 621. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 14 10:14:24 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:41:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher Message-ID: <43vth7$tqals0@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> Seth, can you email me off list at sidirezegh@charter.net please. -Chas From rdf at kelaroo.com Thu Jul 14 10:53:26 2005 From: rdf at kelaroo.com (Robert D. Feinstein) Date: Thu Jul 14 10:45:46 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Looking for Bruce Kirkaldy Message-ID: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46C@mail.kelaroo.com> Hello - Bruce, are you out there? Does anyone have Bruce's current email address? If so, would you please email me directly? Thank you - - Robert From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 11:28:35 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Thu Jul 14 11:29:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Looking for Bruce Kirkaldy In-Reply-To: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46C@mail.kelaroo.com> References: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46C@mail.kelaroo.com> Message-ID: <332a4d03050714112832dd8cf8@mail.gmail.com> Does he live in MO? (damn i couldn't resist) replies to this post are not required nor warranted ;) -Chuck On 7/14/05, Robert D. Feinstein wrote: > Hello - > > Bruce, are you out there? > > Does anyone have Bruce's current email address? > If so, would you please email me directly? > > Thank you - > > - Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 14 12:13:39 2005 From: ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk (Binyamin Jones) Date: Thu Jul 14 12:13:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Kiddy fiddlers on the list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050714191339.9415.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> does anybody know any one else who should be outed and shamed? i for one once smoked p*t..... b e n p.s. this is the best thread i've seen in ages, watching mr e-anal retentive blow himself up p.p.s. get out more, meet a girl, drink some beer, it's sunny. well, it is in the uk ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com From SteveGertsch at t-online.de Thu Jul 14 12:21:22 2005 From: SteveGertsch at t-online.de (SteveGertsch@t-online.de) Date: Thu Jul 14 12:21:51 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Kiddy fiddlers on the list? In-Reply-To: <20050714191339.9415.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601c588a9$3cdf12b0$0201a8c0@NEWYORK2003> << p.s. this is the best thread i've seen in ages >> Yes, it is. I guess the summer doldrums are over. << i for one once smoked p*t.....>> And I smoked a cigarette once in a no-smoking area at Kennedy airport. Is there a Bob MacIntyre out there? Maybe in VA or FLA, not MO. Steve From ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 14 12:25:11 2005 From: ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk (Binyamin Jones) Date: Thu Jul 14 12:25:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Kiddy fiddlers on the list? In-Reply-To: <003601c588a9$3cdf12b0$0201a8c0@NEWYORK2003> Message-ID: <20050714192512.58845.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Is there a Bob MacIntyre out there? Maybe in VA or > FLA, not MO. y, i share a cell with him, pervert b e n (sorry if i missed some u.s. humour with the bob macintyre thing) ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Jul 14 13:50:14 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Jul 14 13:51:55 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher Message-ID: <4404qh$16jj147@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Chas Argent > Date: 2005/07/14 Thu PM 12:14:24 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher > > Seth, can you email me off list at sidirezegh@charter.net please. > > -Chas Now you see...Chas was looking for Seth and he never once mentions Seth's extensive criminal record!!! ;-) Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Jul 14 13:56:46 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Jul 14 13:57:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Looking for Bruce Kirkaldy Message-ID: <43vthu$11lcv57@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> > > From: "Robert D. Feinstein" > Date: 2005/07/14 Thu PM 12:53:26 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] Looking for Bruce Kirkaldy > > Hello - > > Bruce, are you out there? Robert, How can you possibly expect to locate Bruce without including embarrassing, private, and/or personal information about him?!?! How could anyone possibly recognize who he is unless you include such info. ;-) Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Jul 14 14:00:56 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Jul 14 14:04:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 Message-ID: <4532ph$12kdfqk@mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Robert D. Feinstein" > Date: 2005/07/14 Thu PM 12:36:47 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 > > Hi Guys - > > Been lurking along, dodging the latest flame wars and such - > then someone asked about Hill 621! > > IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE GREATEST SCENARIOS EVERY MADE??? Not according to the "Pitman". According to him the designer was "lazy". As for me, I agree. It has been years since I played so it is a little foggy. However, I recall that it was nip and tuck all the way. It may be time to drag it out and give it another go. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From garciagd at velocity.net Thu Jul 14 15:13:55 2005 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Thu Jul 14 15:12:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 In-Reply-To: <4532ph$12kdfqk@mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: "Not according to the "Pitman". According to him the designer was "lazy"." Jeeze, give it a freaking rest. I know that I, for one, am sick of reading this crap. Take is private or just get together and beat the crap out of each other and spare us:>) At least you added ASL content. Roger "sick of the Spud/Pitman feud" From S.Eckhart at cox.net Thu Jul 14 15:32:10 2005 From: S.Eckhart at cox.net (Steve Eckhart) Date: Thu Jul 14 15:32:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Anybody up for ASL on July 23rd? In-Reply-To: <001101c585b0$9f40f5a0$040dbb46@CarlLori> Message-ID: <016301c588c3$e24e9c10$0200a8c0@NBN1266> All, The next meeting of the Omaha Beach ASL Club will be Saturday, July 23 at Carl Nardin's house. I plan to be there. Who wants to play what? The Omaha Beach ASL Club is an informal group of players in the Omaha, Nebraska area. We meet monthly at members' homes for ASL action. I hope we'll see you there! Steve Eckhart -----Original Message----- From: loricarl1 [mailto:loricarl1@cox.net] Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 7:37 PM To: David Hansen; Doug Leach; Jon Carper; Lee Conner-ASL; Len Hillhouse; Steve Eckhart; 'Dan Vail' Cc: Bruce Rinehart; Burnie Hegdahl Subject: Anybody up for ASL on July 23rd? Date: Saturday, 23 July 2005 Time: 11:30 AM to 8:00 PM Place: Carl's Place (7211 N. 76th Street, Omaha, NE) (Directions provided upon request.) Anybody up for some gaming? Please RSVP by e-mail or call me (Carl) @ (402) 571-6838 by Wednesday, July 20th. -Carl Nardin From swfancher at mindspring.com Thu Jul 14 16:20:24 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Thu Jul 14 16:26:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 In-Reply-To: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46A@mail.kelaroo.com> References: <682A50BD683CAE4AB44307B537FF4B0ACFD46A@mail.kelaroo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050714191407.01d006f0@mindspring.com> I agree with Robert. I last played as the German and I tell you my biggest concern for the first few turns was trying to avoid allowing the Russian to HW. I think this, and a reverse-slope defense is the way to go for Jerry. You have to show enough to make Ivan move slowly (i.e. no HW and minimal movement of leader accompanied stacks). But I think you need a concentrated, GO force to push Ivan back down the hill once he starts moving up it. Maybe throw a couple of guys out on his flank to keep him honest, but this game is won or lost on the couple of turns - not in the first two. OTOH, as the German it can be lost in the first two turns of you allow the HW or try to slow the Red Horde coming through the middle board. There are just too many of them spread over too wide an area. You have to bunch them up and then pound them. Be well. Seth At 01:36 PM 7/14/2005, Robert D. Feinstein wrote: >Hi Guys - > >Been lurking along, dodging the latest flame wars and such - >then someone asked about Hill 621! > >IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE GREATEST SCENARIOS EVERY MADE??? > >It plays quickly enough, especially if you follow this advice: > >If you are Russian, go for the earliest, most massive Human Wave(s) >you can, and drive into an area that provides rally locations >for the routing bloodied masses. Then, as the tanks come >into play and the mayhem factor escalates, rally the survivors >(if any) and do another Human Wave up the hill if possible. >Firelanes be damned! (Well, take them out if you can...) >It's a solid strategy and keeps the game moving. The earlier you >put the hurt on the German defenders and observer, the better. >Save your ASL-genius for the tank fight. > >You can play this scenario face-to-face in maybe 4 or 5 hours. >I've done it in <6, and I am a seriously slow player! >Just my 2 cents... > >- Robert > > > > > Message: 27 > > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:47:20 +1000 > > From: Bruce Probst > > Subject: [Aslml] Hill 621 > > To: "Jeff Thompson" > > Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:48:34 -0500, "Jeff Thompson" > > wrote: > > > > >What's the playing time on Hill 621? I've played over 400 scenarios over > > >the last 10 years and still haven't played this one. > > > > For its size, it plays reasonably quickly. I know Neal Andrews and I got > > through it at a fair clip, which considering we're both slow as > tortoises is > > something to note. > > > > And yes, you should play it. *Everybody* should play Hill 621. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > > "It's so embarressing to have to report your own death." > > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From swfancher at mindspring.com Thu Jul 14 16:25:56 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Thu Jul 14 16:26:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher In-Reply-To: <4404qh$16jj147@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <4404qh$16jj147@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050714192034.01d01d10@mindspring.com> Thanks Tate, I thought that was just between us. (Sigh). Even after I copped to the rap all by myself to save your butt! I figured that since I had internet access here from the state pen that I was going to be able to fool everybody. Now they all know why I only PBEM. Man...do you owe me twice now! Just wait until I get out in 15-20 years!!!! I'm going to make you play FTF ASL for week...and only scenarios that are historically accurate in every minute detail! You lazy.....:-) At 04:50 PM 7/14/2005, Tate Rogers wrote: > > From: Chas Argent > > Date: 2005/07/14 Thu PM 12:14:24 CDT > > To: > > Subject: [Aslml] OT: Paging Seth Fancher > > > > Seth, can you email me off list at sidirezegh@charter.net please. > > > > -Chas > >Now you see...Chas was looking for Seth and he never once mentions >Seth's extensive criminal record!!! > >;-) > > >Later- > >Tater (One Mean Spud!) >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Thu Jul 14 18:12:01 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Thu Jul 14 17:13:46 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: <332a4d030507140556296809b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> <002801c5880e$9648cbc0$a64d8918@klis.com> <42D5CC0F.6010205@dial.pipex.com> <332a4d030507140556296809b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42D70D61.20206@dial.pipex.com> Chuck T wrote: > if I may - are you the same Anna that bought from me on ebay? my ebay > id = ctewks > > Someone named Anna recently bought a bunch of older games - europa > series and othe rGDW titles > > -Chuck > No this wasn't me (my eBay ID doesn't feature the word 'anna'). OMG you mean there's another one :) am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From malm at gol.com Thu Jul 14 19:54:22 2005 From: malm at gol.com (Malcolm Rutledge) Date: Thu Jul 14 19:54:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714115343.01c68978@pop3.direcway.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> <0IJM00FD1M46QL@a34-mta04.direcway.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050714115343.01c68978@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050715115116.0265db90@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 01:56 a.m. 15/07/2005, ron mosher wrote: >At 11:38 AM 7/14/2005, David Reenstra wrote: >>I don't think the way you phrased those VCs make it clear in any way that >>both VC conditions are on the German player. > >Chuckle, good try at a dodge....but instead of checking the boolean stuff, >better check your 4th thru 6th grade English papers..check out "subject" >and "predicate". Thanks for playing, but the VCs are written in english... Actually Ron, you need to check out how conjunctions work. As the VCs are written the Germans need to clear both hexes. >ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From e4spm at hotmail.com Thu Jul 14 21:27:16 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Thu Jul 14 21:27:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: ASL map size Message-ID: Can someone please tell me what the dimensions of a standard ASL map is. Metric units of measurement please. David _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail From toga at chariot.net.au Fri Jul 15 03:22:44 2005 From: toga at chariot.net.au (Toga) Date: Fri Jul 15 03:24:20 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: ASL map size References: Message-ID: <000e01c58927$27fbf240$ce7d57cb@Wendel> 556mm long by 202mm wide. A hex is exactly 20mm across This is using a standard ruler and not some fancy laser measuring device Wendel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Marvanek" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:57 PM Subject: [Aslml] Q: ASL map size > Can someone please tell me what the dimensions of a standard ASL map is. > Metric units of measurement please. > > David > > _________________________________________________________________ > SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job site. > http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > From rjmosher at direcway.com Fri Jul 15 06:09:15 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Fri Jul 15 06:09:43 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050715115116.0265db90@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> <0IJM00FD1M46QL@a34-mta04.direcway.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050714115343.01c68978@pop3.direcway.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050715115116.0265db90@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050715080821.01c729d8@pop3.direcway.com> At 09:54 PM 7/14/2005, Malcolm Rutledge wrote: >As the VCs are written the Germans need to clear both hexes. Err...Malcolm that's what I've been saying.... :) For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Fri Jul 15 08:58:58 2005 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Fri Jul 15 08:59:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: ASL map size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, David Marvanek wrote: > Can someone please tell me what the dimensions of a standard ASL map is. > Metric units of measurement please. > 10.5 x 33 hexes. Aren't hexes an SI unit? Marty Marty Snow marty.snow@lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From malm at gol.com Fri Jul 15 09:23:54 2005 From: malm at gol.com (Malcolm Rutledge) Date: Fri Jul 15 09:23:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] The Glory Road VC In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050715080821.01c729d8@pop3.direcway.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050714072641.01c45f98@pop3.direcway.com> <0IJM00FD1M46QL@a34-mta04.direcway.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050714115343.01c68978@pop3.direcway.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050715115116.0265db90@pop3.norton.antivirus> <6.2.1.2.0.20050715080821.01c729d8@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050716012214.026d20f8@pop3.norton.antivirus> I think that that is what everyone has been saying the whole time. You just seemed to be disagreeing. At 10:09 p.m. 15/07/2005, ron mosher wrote: >At 09:54 PM 7/14/2005, Malcolm Rutledge wrote: >>As the VCs are written the Germans need to clear both hexes. > >Err...Malcolm that's what I've been saying.... :) > > >For the nonce, >ron >acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From gd891 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 10:50:08 2005 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd) Date: Fri Jul 15 10:51:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS In-Reply-To: <062920051303.2248.42C29C2B00026274000008C82200751090970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Message-ID: A single woods road hex separates two other hexes. If a unit is in a hex on one side of a woods-road hex, can it trace a LOS through the woods road hex to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as the LOS does not cross any woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot down the road as long as your LOS does not cross the woods)? Thanks Greg From jim.white at dol.net Fri Jul 15 11:01:31 2005 From: jim.white at dol.net (James S. White Jr.) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:10:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RB Refit Phase question Message-ID: <005b01c58967$3e6c9f30$6401a8c0@workstation1> According to O11.602(g), "All still hidden/Cloaked units and Equipment are placed on-map concealed in their setup Location [EXC: hidden Set DC (11.621) may remain Hidden until step 11.6073]. Still-hidden Fortifications need not be revealed at this time;". What happens if there is a Hidden Gun in an upper-level building Location? I ask because if I were to reveal the gun...then obviously this reveals there is a Fortified Location there (which I don't have to reveal at this time). What takes precedence within this rule? It's not that big a deal...but if you pay the FPP cost to get a gun in an upper-level...and the gun does not fire during the current CG-Day...why should a player lose the advantage of that position by being forced to reveal it? Just wondering. Thanks From damavs at alltel.net Fri Jul 15 11:19:14 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:19:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS Message-ID: <20050715181914.JLJH5700.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Greg "gd" writes: > A single woods road hex separates two other hexes. If a unit is in a hex on > one side of a woods-road hex, can it trace a LOS through the woods road hex > to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as the LOS does not cross any > woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot down the road as long as your > LOS does not cross the woods)? Yes, shooting down the road where you don't trace through any woods depiction in the intervening hex is allowed. [NOTE: were it a PTO path in the jungle, it's a different answer] Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From steven.dennis at autodesk.com Fri Jul 15 11:18:43 2005 From: steven.dennis at autodesk.com (Steven Dennis) Date: Fri Jul 15 11:19:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RB Refit Phase question Message-ID: Everyone I have ever played RB against (or any CG for that matter) was OK with not revealing HIP guys unless they affected the perimeter. Ask if they are OK with that. Steve -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of James S. White Jr. Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:02 PM To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [Aslml] RB Refit Phase question According to O11.602(g), "All still hidden/Cloaked units and Equipment are placed on-map concealed in their setup Location [EXC: hidden Set DC (11.621) may remain Hidden until step 11.6073]. Still-hidden Fortifications need not be revealed at this time;". What happens if there is a Hidden Gun in an upper-level building Location? I ask because if I were to reveal the gun...then obviously this reveals there is a Fortified Location there (which I don't have to reveal at this time). What takes precedence within this rule? It's not that big a deal...but if you pay the FPP cost to get a gun in an upper-level...and the gun does not fire during the current CG-Day...why should a player lose the advantage of that position by being forced to reveal it? Just wondering. Thanks _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From dreenstra at comcast.net Fri Jul 15 12:25:50 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Fri Jul 15 12:25:53 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050715192550.1BC8D1BA83@che.dreamhost.com> Greg writes: > > A single woods road hex separates two other hexes. If a unit is in a hex > on > one side of a woods-road hex, can it trace a LOS through the woods road > hex > to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as the LOS does not cross any > woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot down the road as long as > your > LOS does not cross the woods)? > > Thanks > Greg LOS exists only as long as the only woods depiction crossed is in either the firer's or the target's hex. If the LOS crosses woods depiction in an intervening hex, it is blocked. So, with your typical woods-road hex, LOS is going to be blocked as it crosses the hex, since by its definition the woods-road hex contains woods depiction. If you had included some example hexes it might clarify things a bit. I'm imagining your situation would be similar to LOS from 5O3 to 5O5. LOS is blocked by the woods depiction that is part of woods-road hex 5O4. Even LOS from 5O4 down the road to 5Q5 is blocked due to the woods in 5P4 as the LOS leaves the road. HtH, Dave Reenstra From rln22 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 12:31:19 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Fri Jul 15 12:31:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Getting under an AT ditch counter In-Reply-To: <20050715192550.1BC8D1BA83@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <20050715193119.80832.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> this rule has caused some confusion in a game I was watching on vasl: 27.56 ANTI-TANK (A-T) DITCH: A SSR may specify placement of trench counters as an A-T Ditch or obstacle in order to simulate extensive anti-armor defenses. An A-T Ditch is treated the same as a trench except that no vehicle may enter an unbridged A-T Ditch and Infantry must pay two MF plus COT to enter/exit the counter of an A-T Trench. The ditch is in OG. Does it cost 1mf for entry to move into the hex, and on top of the counter. then, another 2 or 3mf to get under the counter? ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From gd891 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 12:57:57 2005 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd) Date: Fri Jul 15 12:57:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an example. I'm looking at something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to 5R6 through the intervening 5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, since the LOS never leaves the road, is this LOS allowed? Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: David Reenstra [mailto:dreenstra@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:26 PM > To: 'gd'; aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > > > Greg writes: > > > > > A single woods road hex separates two other hexes. If a > unit is in a > > hex on one side of a woods-road hex, can it trace a LOS through the > > woods road hex > > to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as the LOS > does not cross any > > woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot down the road > as long as > > your > > LOS does not cross the woods)? > > > > Thanks > > Greg > > LOS exists only as long as the only woods depiction crossed > is in either the firer's or the target's hex. If the LOS > crosses woods depiction in an intervening hex, it is blocked. > So, with your typical woods-road hex, LOS is going to be > blocked as it crosses the hex, since by its definition the > woods-road hex contains woods depiction. If you had included > some example hexes it might clarify things a bit. I'm > imagining your situation would be similar to LOS from 5O3 to > 5O5. LOS is blocked by the woods depiction that is part of > woods-road hex 5O4. Even LOS from 5O4 down the road to 5Q5 > is blocked due to the woods in 5P4 as the LOS leaves the road. > > HtH, > Dave Reenstra > > From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 14:02:16 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 15 14:02:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an example. I'm looking at >something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to 5R6 through the intervening >5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, since the LOS never leaves >the road, is this LOS allowed? Yes, since it doesn't cross any woods depiction in the intervening hex. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 14:09:38 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 15 14:09:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Getting under an AT ditch counter In-Reply-To: <20050715193119.80832.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >27.56 ANTI-TANK (A-T) DITCH: A SSR may specify >placement of trench counters as an A-T Ditch or >obstacle in order to simulate extensive anti-armor >defenses. An A-T Ditch is treated the same as a trench >except that no vehicle may enter an unbridged A-T >Ditch and Infantry must pay two MF plus COT to >enter/exit the counter of an A-T Trench. > >The ditch is in OG. Does it cost 1mf for entry to move >into the hex, and on top of the counter. then, another >2 or 3mf to get under the counter? Yes, though the INF don't *have* to go under the counter...they can simply move into the hex and ignore the AT Ditch (remaining above it)...and then move out to another hex without ever paying the 2 MF to enter/exit the AT Ditch. Note that some people play that the use of the word "must" in the rule means INF *have* to pay the 2 MF entry/exit cost to enter/exit the hex itself; however, 'must' is used only in conjunction with actually entering the AT Ditch itself (i.e., going under the counter). Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 18:19:00 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Fri Jul 15 18:19:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] gear for sale Message-ID: <332a4d03050715181951498330@mail.gmail.com> still in the market for some gear? I'd like to sell the following as a SET only please i came across a complete set -- i mean almost everything -- all core modules including BVv2, WoA, CoB, GH, DB, Partisan, TLH, CdG, FKaC, Paratroop, OVHS, OWT, J1,2,3,5,and 6, Annuals (4 of them I think in an old fashioned red AH binder), extra boards, BRT, ABTF, KGP 1 and 2, PB, Hollow Legions, SASL v2, Streets of Fire, Hedgerow Hell, OotA, GI Dozen rules in sheet protectors and several binders (will also sell a medium sized bin that the rules are all in currently) bunch of old generals with ASL content (classic replay with "Fish" and Gureyev's HQ on DASL), also Dispatches from the Bunker issues 1-13, couple of Schwerpunkt modules as well 90%+ unpunched/unplayed - scenarios and countersheets and map are all out of the boxes and sorted out - punched counters are in ziplock baggies - very clean - hardly played set I'd rather not eat the eBay fee on this set - make me an offer I cannot refuse! (privately) -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Fri Jul 15 19:36:29 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Fri Jul 15 18:38:11 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML In-Reply-To: References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <42D872AD.5070400@dial.pipex.com> Marty Snow wrote: > > However, there is _another_ ASL list that _is_ moderated for those who > want it that way: > ASLX Mailing List > The ASLX list includes all the messages from the ASLML that pass through > the moderator's filter, which means pretty much anything actually related > to ASL. :-) I think I missed this when I joined up (par for the course, I miss loads of stuff, especially when playing ASL :) ). Thanks for the heads up. am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From bifrost at dial.pipex.com Fri Jul 15 19:46:14 2005 From: bifrost at dial.pipex.com (Anna Mancini) Date: Fri Jul 15 18:47:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair In-Reply-To: References: <20050713161056.9234.qmail@web52609.mail.yahoo.com> <42D5B96D.7090802@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <42D874F6.6000901@dial.pipex.com> Bruce Probst wrote: > > Ulp, I hope that wasn't me! No sir. > Because I have a question to ask of you .... > > Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is not a hobby known for its > attraction to females, I for one would be very interested in your perspective; > what is it about the game that you enjoy, how long you've been playing, what > got you started, that kind of stuff. Duh, I'm sure someone else asked me a similar question a couple days back, but I'm darned if I can find the post right now, apologies if I appear to ignore anyone. Just wanted to say anyway that although this question intrigues me too, since I've just whinged for England about off topic posts it wouldn't be very cool of me (or perhaps that should be, 'it would be even more uncool of me') to go further down this road right now on list. So I'll PM you if that's OK - but it won't be tonight. 3am is a tad late even for me... regards am -- Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness. From sullivans at visi.com Fri Jul 15 18:57:32 2005 From: sullivans at visi.com (David and Amy Sullivan) Date: Fri Jul 15 18:57:41 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem In-Reply-To: <20050714190758.BB3301BA85@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <000601c589a9$baee60b0$0300a8c0@Office> I did find that BB8 is check LOS from level 1 (need verbose mode on to see; used VASL 5, VASSAL 2.0.4). The other LOSs look good as Bruce indicates. I've fixed the map LOS data and sent it to Rodney. Thanks, David From: Bruce Probst Subject: Re: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem To: Robert M Hammond Cc: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:55:06 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >Howdy! I was checking LOS on VASL board 39. The LOS string is stating >hex BB8 is only level 1, when it is level 2. What is going on? I don't know. Mine says it's L2. This is with VASL 5.0, VASSAL 2.0.4. I don't know what version the board is, but VASL complains if you're using an out-of-date version, so I assume that it's whatever the current version is. Have you tried downloading that board again (by itself, not as part of a bundled file)? >Moreover, when checking LOS from 39CC8 (level 2) unto 39BB9, the LOS >string states the LOS is blocked along the BB8 hexside. The problem is >--- it is a *cliff* hexside! Okay, what gives?!? Who do I report this >stuff to?? LOS comes up clear (correctly) here. >Finally, the LOS string states the LOS is good from 39CC8 to 47F9 when >half-hex 39BB10 joins half-hex 47F10, and there are only *two* Orchard >symbols, both in the 47F10 half. LOS correctly shows as blocked here, due to the blind hex caused by the orchard hex in 47F10. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Jul 16 01:46:33 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Jul 16 01:46:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair In-Reply-To: <42D874F6.6000901@dial.pipex.com> References: <42D874F6.6000901@dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <98ihd1hdmgnlg2feuckjk7cm4q8dfmmati@4ax.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:46:14 +0100, Anna Mancini wrote: >> Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is not a hobby known for its >> attraction to females, I for one would be very interested in your perspective; >> what is it about the game that you enjoy, how long you've been playing, what >> got you started, that kind of stuff. > >Just wanted to say anyway that although this question intrigues me too, >since I've just whinged for England about off topic posts it wouldn't be >very cool of me (or perhaps that should be, 'it would be even more >uncool of me') to go further down this road right now on list. So I'll >PM you if that's OK - but it won't be tonight. 3am is a tad late even >for me... Well, as you please, but I don't think anyone here would consider a discussion on the above as being remotely "off-topic". ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From hofors at lysator.liu.se Sat Jul 16 02:15:59 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Sat Jul 16 02:16:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] limbered and hooked up Message-ID: Hi, if you have a gun and a primemover in your OB, may they set up limbered and hooked up (at scenario start)? Regards, Mattias From rjmosher at direcway.com Sat Jul 16 04:25:42 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Sat Jul 16 04:25:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] limbered and hooked up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050716062432.01c64918@pop3.direcway.com> At 04:15 AM 7/16/2005, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: >if you have a gun and a primemover in your OB, may they set up >limbered and hooked up (at scenario start)? As long as T capacity of mover is OK, don't see why not. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From dreenstra at comcast.net Sat Jul 16 07:01:41 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Sat Jul 16 07:01:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050716140139.BF7C91BA82@che.dreamhost.com> Greg writes: > > Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an example. I'm looking at > something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to 5R6 through the > intervening > 5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, since the LOS never leaves > the road, is this LOS allowed? > > Greg Yep, that one looks good, right down the road and crossing no woods depiction. Dave Reenstra From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 11:52:08 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Sat Jul 16 11:53:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ Message-ID: <332a4d03050716115226311bc4@mail.gmail.com> can someone please provide? thanks -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Sat Jul 16 12:00:11 2005 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Sat Jul 16 12:00:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ References: <332a4d03050716115226311bc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000501c58a38$97d02750$0200000a@posh3> The Forum: http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 The Zone: http://asl.strategyzoneonline.com/ The ladder: http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/ladder_rating.php?ld=4 Regards Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck T" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:52 PM Subject: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ can someone please provide? thanks -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From fatgretaebay at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 14:17:23 2005 From: fatgretaebay at yahoo.com (Chris Buhl) Date: Sat Jul 16 14:17:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: Aslml-aslml.net Digest, Vol 355, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <20050716190502.37F2C1BAA6@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <20050716211723.93276.qmail@web60225.mail.yahoo.com> ASL Rules for sale on eBay cheap - Check it out! http://my.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyeBay&ssPageName=STRK%3AME%3ALNLK&CurrentPage=MyeBaySelling&LogUID=fatgreta --- aslml-aslml.net-request@lists.aslml.net wrote: > Send Aslml-aslml.net mailing list submissions to > aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > aslml-aslml.net-request@lists.aslml.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > aslml-aslml.net-owner@lists.aslml.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aslml-aslml.net digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Woods-Road hex LOS (David Reenstra) > 2. Getting under an AT ditch counter (Robert > Nelson) > 3. RE: Woods-Road hex LOS (gd) > 4. RE: Woods-Road hex LOS (Scott Jackson) > 5. RE: Getting under an AT ditch counter (Scott > Jackson) > 6. gear for sale (Chuck T) > 7. Re: RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the ASLML (Anna > Mancini) > 8. Re: ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair > (Anna Mancini) > 9. Re: VASL LOS problem (David and Amy Sullivan) > 10. Re: ASL, as seen by the other chromosomal pair > (Bruce Probst) > 11. limbered and hooked up (Mattias R?nnblom) > 12. Re: limbered and hooked up (ron mosher) > 13. RE: Woods-Road hex LOS (David Reenstra) > 14. URL for the WarfareHQ (Chuck T) > 15. Re: URL for the WarfareHQ (Kenneth Knudsen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:25:50 -0400 > From: "David Reenstra" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > To: "'gd'" , > > Message-ID: > <20050715192550.1BC8D1BA83@che.dreamhost.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greg writes: > > > > > A single woods road hex separates two other hexes. > If a unit is in a hex > > on > > one side of a woods-road hex, can it trace a LOS > through the woods road > > hex > > to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as > the LOS does not cross any > > woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot down > the road as long as > > your > > LOS does not cross the woods)? > > > > Thanks > > Greg > > LOS exists only as long as the only woods depiction > crossed is in either the > firer's or the target's hex. If the LOS crosses > woods depiction in an > intervening hex, it is blocked. So, with your > typical woods-road hex, LOS > is going to be blocked as it crosses the hex, since > by its definition the > woods-road hex contains woods depiction. If you had > included some example > hexes it might clarify things a bit. I'm imagining > your situation would be > similar to LOS from 5O3 to 5O5. LOS is blocked by > the woods depiction that > is part of woods-road hex 5O4. Even LOS from 5O4 > down the road to 5Q5 is > blocked due to the woods in 5P4 as the LOS leaves > the road. > > HtH, > Dave Reenstra > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:31:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robert Nelson > Subject: [Aslml] Getting under an AT ditch counter > To: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > <20050715193119.80832.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > this rule has caused some confusion in a game I was > watching on vasl: > > 27.56 ANTI-TANK (A-T) DITCH: A SSR may specify > placement of trench counters as an A-T Ditch or > obstacle in order to simulate extensive anti-armor > defenses. An A-T Ditch is treated the same as a > trench > except that no vehicle may enter an unbridged A-T > Ditch and Infantry must pay two MF plus COT to > enter/exit the counter of an A-T Trench. > > The ditch is in OG. Does it cost 1mf for entry to > move > into the hex, and on top of the counter. then, > another > 2 or 3mf to get under the counter? > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:57:57 -0500 > From: "gd" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > To: , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an > example. I'm looking at > something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to 5R6 > through the intervening > 5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, since > the LOS never leaves > the road, is this LOS allowed? > > Greg > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Reenstra > [mailto:dreenstra@comcast.net] > > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:26 PM > > To: 'gd'; aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > > > > > > Greg writes: > > > > > > > > A single woods road hex separates two other > hexes. If a > > unit is in a > > > hex on one side of a woods-road hex, can it > trace a LOS through the > > > woods road hex > > > to a unit in a hex on the other side as long as > the LOS > > does not cross any > > > woods depiction? (Essentially, can you shoot > down the road > > as long as > > > your > > > LOS does not cross the woods)? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Greg > > > > LOS exists only as long as the only woods > depiction crossed > > is in either the firer's or the target's hex. If > the LOS > > crosses woods depiction in an intervening hex, it > is blocked. > > So, with your typical woods-road hex, LOS is > going to be > > blocked as it crosses the hex, since by its > definition the > > woods-road hex contains woods depiction. If you > had included > > some example hexes it might clarify things a bit. > I'm > > imagining your situation would be similar to LOS > from 5O3 to > > 5O5. LOS is blocked by the woods depiction that > is part of > > woods-road hex 5O4. Even LOS from 5O4 down the > road to 5Q5 > > is blocked due to the woods in 5P4 as the LOS > leaves the road. > > > > HtH, > > Dave Reenstra > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:02:16 -0700 > From: "Scott Jackson" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > To: gd891@hotmail.com, dreenstra@comcast.net, > aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an > example. I'm looking at > >something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to 5R6 > through the intervening > >5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, > since the LOS never leaves > >the road, is this LOS allowed? > > > Yes, since it doesn't cross any woods depiction in > the intervening hex. > > Scott Jackson > aka Stonewall > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:09:38 -0700 > From: "Scott Jackson" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Getting under an AT ditch > counter > To: rln22@yahoo.com, aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >27.56 ANTI-TANK (A-T) DITCH: A SSR may specify > >placement of trench counters as an A-T Ditch or > >obstacle in order to simulate extensive anti-armor > >defenses. An A-T Ditch is treated the same as a > trench > >except that no vehicle may enter an unbridged A-T > >Ditch and Infantry must pay two MF plus COT to > >enter/exit the counter of an A-T Trench. > > > >The ditch is in OG. Does it cost 1mf for entry to > move > >into the hex, and on top of the counter. then, > another > >2 or 3mf to get under the counter? > > > Yes, though the INF don't *have* to go under the > counter...they can simply > move into the hex and ignore the AT Ditch (remaining > above it)...and then > move out to another hex without ever paying the 2 MF > to enter/exit the AT > Ditch. > > Note that some people play that the use of the word > "must" in the rule means > INF *have* to pay the 2 MF entry/exit cost to > enter/exit the hex itself; > however, 'must' is used only in conjunction with > actually entering the AT > Ditch itself (i.e., going under the counter). > > Scott Jackson > aka Stonewall > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:19:00 -0400 > From: Chuck T > Subject: [Aslml] gear for sale > To: "aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net" > > Message-ID: > <332a4d03050715181951498330@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > still in the market for some gear? I'd like to sell > the following as > a SET only please > > i came across a complete set -- i mean almost > everything -- all core > modules including BVv2, WoA, CoB, GH, DB, Partisan, > TLH, CdG, FKaC, > Paratroop, OVHS, OWT, J1,2,3,5,and 6, Annuals (4 of > them I think in > an old fashioned red AH binder), extra boards, BRT, > ABTF, KGP 1 and > 2, PB, Hollow Legions, SASL v2, Streets of Fire, > Hedgerow Hell, OotA, > GI Dozen > > rules in sheet protectors and several binders (will > also sell a > medium sized bin that the rules are all in > currently) > > bunch of old generals with ASL content (classic > replay with "Fish" and > Gureyev's HQ on DASL), also Dispatches from the > Bunker issues 1-13, > couple of Schwerpunkt modules as well > > 90%+ unpunched/unplayed - > > scenarios and countersheets and map are all out of > the boxes and > sorted out - punched counters are in ziplock baggies > - very clean - > hardly played set > > I'd rather not eat the eBay fee on this set - make > me an offer I > cannot refuse! (privately) > > -- > Chuck T > chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:36:29 +0100 > From: Anna Mancini > Subject: Re: [Aslml] RE: RE: The "Pitman" and the > ASLML > To: Marty Snow > Cc: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: <42D872AD.5070400@dial.pipex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; > format=flowed > > Marty Snow wrote: > > > > However, there is _another_ ASL list that _is_ > moderated for those who > > want it that way: > > ASLX Mailing List > > The ASLX list includes all the messages from the > ASLML that pass through > > the moderator's filter, which means pretty much > anything actually related > > to ASL. :-) > > I think I missed this when I joined up (par for the > course, I miss loads > of stuff, especially when playing ASL :) ). Thanks > for the heads up. > > am > > -- > Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I > regain consciousness. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:46:14 +0100 > From: Anna Mancini > Subject: [Aslml] Re: ASL, as seen by the other > chromosomal pair > To: bprobst@netspace.net.au > Cc: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: <42D874F6.6000901@dial.pipex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; > format=flowed > > Bruce Probst wrote: > > > > > Ulp, I hope that wasn't me! > > No sir. > > > > Because I have a question to ask of you .... > > > > Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is > not a hobby known for its > > attraction to females, I for one would be very > interested in your perspective; > > what is it about the game that you enjoy, how long > you've been playing, what > > got you started, that kind of stuff. > > Duh, I'm sure someone else asked me a similar > question a couple days > back, but I'm darned if I can find the post right > now, apologies if I > appear to ignore anyone. > > Just wanted to say anyway that although this > question intrigues me too, > since I've just whinged for England about off topic > posts it wouldn't be > very cool of me (or perhaps that should be, 'it > would be even more > uncool of me') to go further down this road right > now on list. So I'll > PM you if that's OK - but it won't be tonight. 3am > is a tad late even > for me... > > regards > > am > > > -- > Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I > regain consciousness. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:57:32 -0500 > From: "David and Amy Sullivan" > Subject: Re: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem > To: > Message-ID: <000601c589a9$baee60b0$0300a8c0@Office> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I did find that BB8 is check LOS from level 1 (need > verbose mode on to > see; used VASL 5, VASSAL 2.0.4). The other LOSs look > good as Bruce > indicates. I've fixed the map LOS data and sent it > to Rodney. > > Thanks, David > > > > From: Bruce Probst > Subject: Re: [Aslml] VASL LOS problem > To: Robert M Hammond > Cc: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:55:06 -0700, Robert M Hammond > wrote: > > >Howdy! I was checking LOS on VASL board 39. The > LOS string is stating > >hex BB8 is only level 1, when it is level 2. What > is going on? > > I don't know. Mine says it's L2. This is with VASL > 5.0, VASSAL 2.0.4. > I > don't know what version the board is, but VASL > complains if you're using > an > out-of-date version, so I assume that it's whatever > the current version > is. > Have you tried downloading that board again (by > itself, not as part of a > bundled file)? > > >Moreover, when checking LOS from 39CC8 (level 2) > unto 39BB9, the LOS > >string states the LOS is blocked along the BB8 > hexside. The problem is > >--- it is a *cliff* hexside! Okay, what gives?!? > Who do I report this > >stuff to?? > > LOS comes up clear (correctly) here. > > >Finally, the LOS string states the LOS is good from > 39CC8 to 47F9 when > >half-hex 39BB10 joins half-hex 47F10, and there are > only *two* Orchard > >symbols, both in the 47F10 half. > > LOS correctly shows as blocked here, due to the > blind hex caused by the > orchard hex in 47F10. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:46:33 +1000 > From: Bruce Probst > Subject: [Aslml] Re: ASL, as seen by the other > chromosomal pair > To: Anna Mancini > Cc: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > <98ihd1hdmgnlg2feuckjk7cm4q8dfmmati@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:46:14 +0100, Anna Mancini > > wrote: > > >> Given that ASL (indeed, wargaming in general) is > not a hobby known for its > >> attraction to females, I for one would be very > interested in your perspective; > >> what is it about the game that you enjoy, how > long you've been playing, what > >> got you started, that kind of stuff. > > > >Just wanted to say anyway that although this > question intrigues me too, > >since I've just whinged for England about off topic > posts it wouldn't be > >very cool of me (or perhaps that should be, 'it > would be even more > >uncool of me') to go further down this road right > now on list. So I'll > >PM you if that's OK - but it won't be tonight. 3am > is a tad late even > >for me... > > Well, as you please, but I don't think anyone here > would consider a discussion > on the above as being remotely "off-topic". > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of > yours?" > ASL FAQ > http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: 16 Jul 2005 11:15:59 +0200 > From: Mattias R?nnblom > Subject: [Aslml] limbered and hooked up > To: Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi, > > if you have a gun and a primemover in your OB, may > they set up > limbered and hooked up (at scenario start)? > > Regards, > Mattias > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:25:42 -0500 > From: ron mosher > Subject: Re: [Aslml] limbered and hooked up > To: Mattias R?nnblom , > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: > <6.2.1.2.0.20050716062432.01c64918@pop3.direcway.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; > format=flowed > > At 04:15 AM 7/16/2005, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: > >if you have a gun and a primemover in your OB, may > they set up > >limbered and hooked up (at scenario start)? > > As long as T capacity of mover is OK, don't see why > not. > > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy > Church of ASL > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:01:41 -0400 > From: "David Reenstra" > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Woods-Road hex LOS > To: "'gd'" , > > Message-ID: > <20050716140139.BF7C91BA82@che.dreamhost.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greg writes: > > > > > Sorry, didn't think of using VASL to find an > example. I'm looking at > > something more like trying to shoot from 5P5 to > 5R6 through the > > intervening > > 5Q6. Ignore moving units for simplicity sake, > since the LOS never leaves > > the road, is this LOS allowed? > > > > Greg > > Yep, that one looks good, right down the road and > crossing no woods > depiction. > > Dave Reenstra > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:52:08 -0400 > From: Chuck T > Subject: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ > To: "aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net" > > Message-ID: > <332a4d03050716115226311bc4@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > can someone please provide? thanks > -- > Chuck T > chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:00:11 +0200 > From: "Kenneth Knudsen" > > Subject: Re: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ > To: "Chuck T" > Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Message-ID: <000501c58a38$97d02750$0200000a@posh3> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The Forum: > http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 > The Zone: http://asl.strategyzoneonline.com/ > The ladder: > http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/ladder_rating.php?ld=4 > > Regards > Kenneth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck T" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:52 PM > Subject: [Aslml] URL for the WarfareHQ > > > can someone please provide? thanks > -- > Chuck T > chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster@aslml.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > > End of Aslml-aslml.net Digest, Vol 355, Issue 1 > *********************************************** > Get your free eBay buyer's guide when you visit my eBay About Me page! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Jul 16 15:30:06 2005 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sat Jul 16 15:30:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] paging Chris Olden Message-ID: Anyone know how to contact this scenario-designer? Janusz From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Jul 16 15:32:43 2005 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sat Jul 16 15:32:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] sticky ABtF pdf Message-ID: Where can I get hold of the sticky errata for ABtF and Tarawa, that was included with journal 1 I think. TIA Janusz From arobin at scccinternet.com Sun Jul 17 05:34:41 2005 From: arobin at scccinternet.com (Andrew Robin) Date: Sun Jul 17 05:35:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Piats in Carriers Message-ID: Can A PIAT be placed in a carrier at setup pocessed by the inherent crew? Unpocessed and yet in the PP of the carrier? If either situation is possible can the crew abandon and then take the PIAT out in the same manner that a crew in the 251/smg can remove the DM HMG? Thanks Andrew Robin From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 06:06:09 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Sun Jul 17 06:06:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Re: gear for sale In-Reply-To: <332a4d03050715181951498330@mail.gmail.com> References: <332a4d03050715181951498330@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <332a4d03050717060663cfd7f4@mail.gmail.com> forgot - Yanks is also in there -Chuck On 7/15/05, Chuck T wrote: > still in the market for some gear? I'd like to sell the following as > a SET only please > > i came across a complete set -- i mean almost everything -- all core > modules including BVv2, WoA, CoB, GH, DB, Partisan, TLH, CdG, FKaC, > Paratroop, OVHS, OWT, J1,2,3,5,and 6, Annuals (4 of them I think in > an old fashioned red AH binder), extra boards, BRT, ABTF, KGP 1 and > 2, PB, Hollow Legions, SASL v2, Streets of Fire, Hedgerow Hell, OotA, > GI Dozen > > rules in sheet protectors and several binders (will also sell a > medium sized bin that the rules are all in currently) > > bunch of old generals with ASL content (classic replay with "Fish" and > Gureyev's HQ on DASL), also Dispatches from the Bunker issues 1-13, > couple of Schwerpunkt modules as well > > 90%+ unpunched/unplayed - > > scenarios and countersheets and map are all out of the boxes and > sorted out - punched counters are in ziplock baggies - very clean - > hardly played set > > I'd rather not eat the eBay fee on this set - make me an offer I > cannot refuse! (privately) > > -- > Chuck T > chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From rjmosher at direcway.com Sun Jul 17 07:16:49 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Sun Jul 17 07:17:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Piats in Carriers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717091410.01cc7598@pop3.direcway.com> At 07:34 AM 7/17/2005, Andrew Robin wrote: >Can A PIAT be placed in a carrier at setup pocessed by the inherent crew? No. >Unpocessed and yet in the PP of the carrier? If it is the right kind of Carrier. >If either situation is possible can >the crew abandon and then take the PIAT out in the same manner that a crew in >the 251/smg can remove the DM HMG? No, the Crew "removable" stuff is listed in the Carrier section..and the PIAT would only be removable by a passenger. For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From albcann at warwick.net Sun Jul 17 08:23:50 2005 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Sun Jul 17 08:24:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Quick entrenchment question Message-ID: <000901c58ae3$8961e270$0b13c7d0@DGYPG541> Fellows, The rules are ambiguous (imagine that!) to me on this simple question: Can 5/8" counters other than MTR's be placed in trenches? Thanks, Al Cann From damavs at alltel.net Sun Jul 17 08:38:36 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Sun Jul 17 08:38:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Quick entrenchment question In-Reply-To: <000901c58ae3$8961e270$0b13c7d0@DGYPG541> References: <000901c58ae3$8961e270$0b13c7d0@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717113603.01dfec60@mail.alltel.net> al cann wrote: > The rules are ambiguous (imagine that!) to me on this simple > question: Can 5/8" counters other than MTR's be placed in trenches? They can, they just can't leave the hex except in the rare case where a non-Mortar can be dismantled (RCL is the only one I can think of offhand, but there are likely some other freaks about - it is ASL after all). So an AT gun that sets up in a trench cannot be pushed out during a scenario (see Zon With the Wind where the 88s have to setup in trenches). A tank can even setup in a trench, but may not leave - something I only realized relatively recently during a Budapest playtest... Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From ktasl at comcast.net Sun Jul 17 11:02:47 2005 From: ktasl at comcast.net (Keith Todd) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:02:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Critical Hit Message-ID: <002d01c58af9$bdbe9200$6401a8c0@MOOSE> Probably asked before but AFV needs 6 to hit, rolls snake eyes, AFV target is behind a hedge. Is it still a critical hit? Thanks, Keith From damavs at alltel.net Sun Jul 17 11:11:05 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:11:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Critical Hit In-Reply-To: <002d01c58af9$bdbe9200$6401a8c0@MOOSE> References: <002d01c58af9$bdbe9200$6401a8c0@MOOSE> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717140606.01dc2528@mail.alltel.net> Keith Todd wrote: >AFV needs 6 to hit, rolls snake eyes, AFV target is behind a hedge. > >Is it still a critical hit? Sure. 'Course behind a hedge, the AFV isn't hulldown either so any 3, 4, 5 or 6 is a hit as well, albeit not a crit. Behind a wall or bocage where the AFV is HD, eyes is still a crit. The only time snake eyes is not a critical vs. an AFV is if you needed an original 2 or less to obtain any kind of hit and thus a subsequent dr is needed to determine if a crit is obtained. Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From johnpeplow at yahoo.ca Sun Jul 17 11:25:54 2005 From: johnpeplow at yahoo.ca (John Peplow) Date: Sun Jul 17 11:25:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Piats in Carriers In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717091410.01cc7598@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <20050717182554.81445.qmail@web52207.mail.yahoo.com> There is a Carrier (NRBH) that has an inherent PIAT and it can be used by the crew if they forfeit the use of any other weapon on the vehicle (Carrier C?) Of course the PIAT is then subject to all the vehicular penalties for movement but it does make for some interesting possibilities, if the crew survives. John --- ron mosher wrote: > At 07:34 AM 7/17/2005, Andrew Robin wrote: > >Can A PIAT be placed in a carrier at setup pocessed > by the inherent crew? > > No. > > >Unpocessed and yet in the PP of the carrier? > > If it is the right kind of Carrier. > > >If either situation is possible can > >the crew abandon and then take the PIAT out in the > same manner that a crew in > >the 251/smg can remove the DM HMG? > > No, the Crew "removable" stuff is listed in the > Carrier section..and the > PIAT would only be removable by a passenger. > > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy > Church of ASL > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster@aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From danielzucker at comcast.net Sun Jul 17 13:08:31 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Sun Jul 17 13:08:39 2005 Subject: [Aslml] P2 slope hexsides Questions Message-ID: <000d01c58b0b$4ffa9310$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I'm playing BtB5 with the big hill overlay and I'm having the devil of a time trying to understand this rule and the whole hillside bocage thing also. The slope rule says that a unit Up-slope can trace LOS over obstacles '...........whose top most obstacle/Hindrance height is < the up-slope elevation of the viewing unit.....' Does this mean that if a viewing unit is on a level 2 hill and Up-slope (at level 2 & 3/4) that it could see over an orchard on a level 1 hill (a 2 level obstacle)? Is the viewing unit at level 2 or level 2 & 3/4? Daniel From rjmosher at direcway.com Sun Jul 17 15:52:21 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Sun Jul 17 15:52:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Piats in Carriers In-Reply-To: <20050717182554.81445.qmail@web52207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717091410.01cc7598@pop3.direcway.com> <20050717182554.81445.qmail@web52207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050717175025.01c27700@pop3.direcway.com> At 01:25 PM 7/17/2005, John Peplow wrote: >There is a Carrier (NRBH) that has an inherent PIAT >and it can be used by the crew if they forfeit the use >of any other weapon on the vehicle (Carrier C?) Yep, C after Jun '43, the PIAT starts out as Inherent..and can be used as you state. The crew can take it out...or a passenger. ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From bearlyonthehill at optonline.net Sun Jul 17 16:40:14 2005 From: bearlyonthehill at optonline.net (bearlyonthehill@optonline.net) Date: Sun Jul 17 16:40:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] J92 scenario & errata if any Message-ID: Listers - I have questions about the VP on the selected hexes that have a set DC. If the DC's are not defused and become rubble, do the Filipinos receive the VPs? If the answer is no, can the Filipinos defuse their own DC and gain the VPs? The reason for the questions are, it seems that if the Filipions cannot defuse their own DC for VPs or receive the rubble hexes for VPs, there is no reason for the Japanese to be the aggressors. They can hope to defuse two of the four DCs then sit back and wait for the counterattack. Your help is greatly appreciated. Gus From sidirezegh at charter.net Sun Jul 17 17:41:12 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Sun Jul 17 17:41:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] J92 scenario & errata if any In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42DAFAA8.9080807@charter.net> Gus- Yes, the was errata issued after J6 came out, which gives the Filipinos the VPs for the DCs if the Japanese fail to Clear them. Also, note that the Filipinos do not Disrupt, according to the same errata. Regards, Chas bearlyonthehill@optonline.net wrote: >Listers - > >I have questions about the VP on the selected hexes that have a set DC. If the DC's are not defused and become rubble, do the Filipinos receive the VPs? If the answer is no, can the Filipinos defuse their own DC and gain the VPs? > >The reason for the questions are, it seems that if the Filipions cannot defuse their own DC for VPs or receive the rubble hexes for VPs, there is no reason for the Japanese to be the aggressors. They can hope to defuse two of the four DCs then sit back and wait for the counterattack. > >Your help is greatly appreciated. > >Gus >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > From e4spm at hotmail.com Sun Jul 17 18:16:26 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Sun Jul 17 18:16:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Passengers and concealment Message-ID: A halftrack carrying a Gun crew as passengers enters (from off board) an open ground hex in LOS from a GO KEU < 16 away. Do the passengers lose concealment? David _________________________________________________________________ REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au From e4spm at hotmail.com Sun Jul 17 18:30:57 2005 From: e4spm at hotmail.com (David Marvanek) Date: Sun Jul 17 18:31:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: CC & CX Message-ID: 2 Russian squads are in CC with a German squad. One of the Russian squads is CX. If the German attacks only the non-CX Russian squad does the German get the -1 vs CX DRM? _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Jul 17 19:28:04 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Jul 17 19:28:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] sticky ABtF pdf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:32:43 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Where can I get hold of the sticky errata for ABtF and Tarawa, that was included with journal 1 I think. Journal 2. If you mean the physical, sticky pages, they only came with Journal 2. If you mean the errata *content* of those sticky pages, they were mostly printed on p.Z2, also supplied only with Journal 2. They've not been made available elsewhere, so far as I know, but they should be available in MMP's updated errata section as soon as that updated errata section is put on-line. Which will hopefully be quite soon. If you need them *right now*, I can send you a copy of my "Q&A compilations" for chapters R & T (MS Word format). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Jul 17 19:34:35 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Jul 17 19:34:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Passengers and concealment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005md11spprt5ucqk3ltnd09fufq0f3sf4@4ax.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:46:26 +0930, "David Marvanek" wrote: >A halftrack carrying a Gun crew as passengers enters (from off board) an >open ground hex in LOS from a GO KEU < 16 away. > >Do the passengers lose concealment? Yes. PRC share the same concealment status as the vehicle (A12.2, near the end). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Jul 17 19:45:52 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Jul 17 19:45:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: CC & CX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9a5md1l8reeefkdhuuvfp8e9aojo76lseb@4ax.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:00:57 +0930, "David Marvanek" wrote: >2 Russian squads are in CC with a German squad. >One of the Russian squads is CX. >If the German attacks only the non-CX Russian squad does the German get the >-1 vs CX DRM? No. DRM only apply if at least one of the units attacking or being attacked is susceptible to it. Since the Germans are ignoring the CX squad, the CX defensive penalty is NA. Of course, the rules for the actual application of CC DRM are, um, largely non-existent (A.5 is about as specific as it gets, believe it or not), but it can be easily inferred. In the case of CX specifically, A4.51 says "CX units must ... deduct one from any CC attack made against them." In your example, no CC attack is being made *against* the CX unit, so no CX DRM are applied to that attack. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Sun Jul 17 21:31:09 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Sun Jul 17 21:33:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Pillbox, Advance & Dummy Units Message-ID: David asked >Is a broken enemy unit in an open ground hex adjacent to a pillbox >containing a unit forced to rout because of the unit in the pillbox. And Scott answered Yes, if in CA of the PB and the PB-occupant is Known, armed, and unbroken. Old Q&A: B30.2 May a pillbox occupant use FPF against a moving enemy unit in an adjacent ground-level Location within the pillbox's CA even though those two units are not ADJACENT? A. Yes - and the attack would be considered PBF (as would an attack from that adjacent Location versus the pillbox occupant). In addition, if that enemy unit starts the RtPh broken in the same hex, it would also be subject to DM and forced to rout (assuming the pillbox occupant is Known, armed and unbroken). [An93a; An95w; An96; Mw] Is the reverse true? Does a broken unit IN a pill box have to rout if a known, armed enemy unit is in either the pillbox hex or in the adjacent hex in the pillbox CA (and hence ADJACENT). Or does B30.7 allow the broken unit to remain in the pillbox despite being adjacent to the enemy unit? TIA Cheers Jon This e-mail and files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Jul 17 22:46:05 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Jul 17 22:46:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Q: Pillbox, Advance & Dummy Units In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:31:09 +0800, "Cole, Jonathan" wrote: >Is the reverse true? Does a broken unit IN a pill box have to rout if a >known, armed enemy unit is in either the pillbox hex or in the adjacent hex >in the pillbox CA (and hence ADJACENT). Or does B30.7 allow the broken unit >to remain in the pillbox despite being adjacent to the enemy unit? A broken unit in a pillbox is never required to rout. B30.5. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From robertthepastor at juno.com Mon Jul 18 00:27:51 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Mon Jul 18 00:30:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Do I get a chance to mug? (A routing question) Message-ID: <20050718.002751.2272.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Howdy! My Russians and Partisans are holding the board 39 hill fending off the US Army. (It's a scenario set in Siberia, summer of 1919!) There is an SSR which states, "For purposes of MF expenditure _only_, all woods are treated as Pine woods (B13.82)." I have broken two American squads in 39BB1. I have two concealed squads at Y3 wanting to mug the broken Americans in the woods at Z2. It is now the RtPh. The brokies see KEU (my Bolsheviks) in CC5 & BB4. The closest woods / building to the brokies are hexes: Z0 (woods, level 0 -- 2 hexes away, 4.5 MF to reach); Z2 (woods, level 2 -- 2 hexes away, 5 MF to reach); Y1 (building, level 0 -- 3 hexes away, 5 MF to reach). According to rule A10.51 (1st Ed.), the brokies ". . . must move to the nearest (in *MF*) building or woods hex...". I have the 2nd Ed but am currently NRBH. According to the rules (COWTRA), it appears the Americans can rout to Z0 as that is the nearest in *MF*. But, in doing so, these brokies have to rout _around_ the pond in AA1. This forces the brokies to move towards and ADJACENT to the woods at Z2 by entering hex AA2. From there, to keep routing towards the Z0 woods, the brokies must move to Z1 which is also ADJACENT to the woods at Z2 _and_ the building at Y1. QUESTION: May the brokies ignore the woods at Z2 and rout to the woods at Z0? (I think yes for two reasons: 1. The Z2 woods are equal distance from the KEU while the Z0 woods are further away; and, 2. The MF expenditure to reach Z0 is less than the MF needed to reach the Z2 woods.) However, the brokies are routing *around* a Water Obstacle to reach the Z0 woods. Thus, the brokies are moving _closer_ to the Z2 woods and indeed are routing next to the Z2 woods for *two* hexes. So, do my Russians get to mug some Americans in the APh/CCPh in Z2?? :-) Thanks and take care, Robert "long winded even outside of the pulpit" Hammond From danielzucker at comcast.net Mon Jul 18 05:30:46 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Mon Jul 18 05:33:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] P2 slope hexside question Message-ID: <002e01c58b94$f4e50e80$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I'm playing BtB5 with the big hill overlay and I'm having the devil of a time trying to understand this rule and the whole hillside bocage thing also. The slope rule says that a unit Up-slope can trace LOS over obstacles '...........whose top most obstacle/Hindrance height is < the up-slope elevation of the viewing unit.....' Does this mean that if a viewing unit is on a level 2 hill and Up-slope (at level 2 & 3/4) that it could see over an orchard on a level 1 hill (a 2 level obstacle)? Is the viewing unit at level 2 or level 2 & 3/4? Daniel From morrisgj at mscd.edu Mon Jul 18 07:35:38 2005 From: morrisgj at mscd.edu (morrisgj@mscd.edu) Date: Mon Jul 18 07:35:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Observers and Target Selection Limits? Message-ID: <32d1bd332045.33204532d1bd@mscd.edu> Hello All: I have an observer in the Cellar of a building. Opponent drives a Panther into the ground level of the building. Can the Observer still function normally? I have an FFE:2 onboard at the moment. Thanks, Gerry From damavs at alltel.net Mon Jul 18 07:51:38 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Mon Jul 18 07:51:53 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Observers and Target Selection Limits? Message-ID: <20050718145138.ZFSC13979.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Gerry (morrisgj@mscd.edu) writes: > I have an observer in the Cellar of a building. Opponent drives a > Panther into the ground level of the building. > > Can the Observer still function normally? I have an FFE:2 onboard at > the moment. Sure. The tank isn't even the same location as the observer so it wouldn't affect fire out of the hex anyway, but regardless of that OBA is not restricted by TPBF opportunities. I do wonder a little about the utility of an observer in a cellar though. That can't be a great LOS I'd think. Although I have to admit your opponent is unlikely to recon the cellar looking for an OBA observer... Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From gr27134 at charter.net Mon Jul 18 08:45:08 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Mon Jul 18 08:45:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Observers and Target Selection Limits? Message-ID: <44abkh$11qncji@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bret & Julie Hildebran > Date: 2005/07/18 Mon AM 09:51:38 CDT > To: , ASLML > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Observers and Target Selection Limits? > > > I do wonder a little about the utility of an observer in > a cellar though. That can't be a great LOS I'd think. > Although I have to admit your opponent is unlikely to recon > the cellar looking for an OBA observer... For LOS purposes, a unit in a cellar is treated as being entrenched in that hex. IOW, it would be no more restrictive than being in a foxhole/trench. Just don't set them up immediatly behind a wall/hedge and your OK. BTW, I know of at least one case on the OVHS map where you have a cellar location on a crestline. This location has some pretty good LOS vs the entering Canucks. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 18 15:14:07 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Mon Jul 18 15:13:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Do I get a chance to mug? (A routing question) In-Reply-To: <20050718.002751.2272.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: Hi, Robert M Hammond wrote: > According to rule A10.51 (1st Ed.), the brokies ". . . must move to the > nearest (in *MF*) building or woods hex...". I have the 2nd Ed but am > currently NRBH. > ASLRBv2 says: a routing unit must move to the nearest (in MF calculated at the start of its RtPh) building or woods hex The "calculated at the start of its RtPh" part is new in the v2 rules, and help clarify your question. > QUESTION: May the brokies ignore the woods at Z2 and rout to the woods at > Z0? Yes. > (I think yes for two reasons: > 1. The Z2 woods are equal distance from the KEU ... Correct, this means that the Z2 woods can be ignored alltogether... > 2. The MF expenditure to reach Z0 is less than the MF needed to reach > the Z2 woods.) > However, the brokies are routing *around* a Water Obstacle to reach the > Z0 woods. Thus, the brokies are moving _closer_ to the Z2 woods and > indeed are routing next to the Z2 woods for *two* hexes. > As seen from the addition in the ASLRBv2, all that matters is which target hex that is closest in MP *at the start of its RtPh* - so the fact that the routing unit is ADJACENT to z2 during its RtPh is irrelevant. --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Jul 18 15:57:59 2005 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:00:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] sticky ABtF pdf Message-ID: Ah, I see. Thing is, I cannot find my page from journal 2. But I've found a printed page that looks very much like that sticky errata layout, though not printed on sticky paper. This lead me to think there is a sticky errata .pdf out there, and I've lost it somehow. Janusz ________________________________ From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst@netspace.net.au] Sent: Mon 2005-07-18 04:28 To: Janusz Maxe Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] sticky ABtF pdf On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:32:43 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Where can I get hold of the sticky errata for ABtF and Tarawa, that was included with journal 1 I think. Journal 2. If you mean the physical, sticky pages, they only came with Journal 2. If you mean the errata *content* of those sticky pages, they were mostly printed on p.Z2, also supplied only with Journal 2. They've not been made available elsewhere, so far as I know, but they should be available in MMP's updated errata section as soon as that updated errata section is put on-line. Which will hopefully be quite soon. If you need them *right now*, I can send you a copy of my "Q&A compilations" for chapters R & T (MS Word format). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 18 16:32:16 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Mon Jul 18 16:31:44 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I received those from Perry, For what its worth - I think the answers make perfect sense... > A7.351 (last sentence) says: "A Leader directing fire is treated as if he > were firing." > > In addition, the last A8 example shows that a leader directing fire, is > marked with the same fire counter as the unit he directs the fire of. > > > 1) Does the A7.351 sentence have any consequences besides marking the > leader with a fire counter, and treating it as it has fired, after > the attack? None spring to mind. > > 2) If yes to 1), does it mean that a leader directing fire, is making > a fire attack himself, thus participating in the FG he directs? No. > > 3) If yes to 2), does it mean that a leader cannot direct an MG that uses > its Bore Sight DRM (since C6.44 requres all elements of a FG to have Bore > Sighted a Location to use the DRM) > > 4) If yes to 2), does it mean that a leader is marked with First Fire > after having directed one shot (even an MMG that retains ROF) during > the MPh, and thereafter restricts any leader-directed fire to the > closest Known enemy unit? > NA to both 3 & 4. ....Perry MMP --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 19 01:03:03 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 19 01:03:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] sticky ABtF pdf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:57:59 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Thing is, I cannot find my page from journal 2. But I've found a printed page that looks very much like that sticky errata layout, though not printed on sticky paper. This lead me to think there is a sticky errata .pdf out there, and I've lost it somehow. Someone may well have created such a PDF by scanning in the original sticky page, but it's not something MMP has done. (Pity; it's a good idea.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 19 01:15:53 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 19 01:15:55 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:32:16 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >I received those from Perry, For what its worth - I think the answers make >perfect sense... Well, that would make one of you. >> A7.351 (last sentence) says: "A Leader directing fire is treated as if he >> were firing." >> 2) If yes to 1), does it mean that a leader directing fire, is making >> a fire attack himself, thus participating in the FG he directs? > >No. So, a leader, who *is* treated as firing (for some unspecified purposes), is actually *not* treated as firing (for other unspecified purposes). It's a very sad world indeed where that makes any sort of sense. Worse, it means we have to *guess* when he is, and when he isn't, treated as firing. No, thank you. I prefer the simpler explanation: a leader that is treated as firing is, well, treated as firing. For *any* purpose, unless specific exceptions are made. >> 3) If yes to 2), does it mean that a leader cannot direct an MG that uses >> its Bore Sight DRM (since C6.44 requres all elements of a FG to have Bore >> Sighted a Location to use the DRM) If Perry wants to make a specific EXC to the effect that leaders can direct a BS attack, despite not qualifying for the BS DRM, that's fine with me. If he wants to go the whole hog and make a specific EXC that a leader, even though he is treated as firing, is not participating in the FG that he is directing, well, I could live with that, although conceptually I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. In either case, bring on the errata to make it so. Until then, it's another one in the "to be ignored until errata makes it true" file. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 19 05:37:26 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 19 05:38:06 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") Message-ID: <4404pq$176e2lv@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bruce Probst > Date: 2005/07/19 Tue AM 03:15:53 CDT > To: Ole B?e > CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is > treated as if he were firing.") > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:32:16 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: > > >I received those from Perry, For what its worth - I think the answers make > >perfect sense... > > Well, that would make one of you. > > >> A7.351 (last sentence) says: "A Leader directing fire is treated as if he > >> were firing." > > >> 2) If yes to 1), does it mean that a leader directing fire, is making > >> a fire attack himself, thus participating in the FG he directs? > > > >No. > > So, a leader, who *is* treated as firing (for some unspecified purposes), is > actually *not* treated as firing (for other unspecified purposes). > > It's a very sad world indeed where that makes any sort of sense. Worse, it > means we have to *guess* when he is, and when he isn't, treated as firing. > > No, thank you. > > I prefer the simpler explanation: a leader that is treated as firing is, well, > treated as firing. For *any* purpose, unless specific exceptions are made. > > >> 3) If yes to 2), does it mean that a leader cannot direct an MG that uses > >> its Bore Sight DRM (since C6.44 requres all elements of a FG to have Bore > >> Sighted a Location to use the DRM) > > If Perry wants to make a specific EXC to the effect that leaders can direct a > BS attack, despite not qualifying for the BS DRM, that's fine with me. > > If he wants to go the whole hog and make a specific EXC that a leader, even > though he is treated as firing, is not participating in the FG that he is > directing, well, I could live with that, although conceptually I don't think > it makes a whole lot of sense. > > In either case, bring on the errata to make it so. > > Until then, it's another one in the "to be ignored until errata makes it true" > file. I wasn't going to post anything relative to this Perry Sez because frankly I am in a "hopeless" place relative to ASL Q&A. Perry's answers on this make no sense at all. Either that statement in A7.351 is true or it isn't. If it is a matter of being true for some and not for other cases then that needs to be spelled out becuase frankly, it is totally unclear to me where it does/doesn't apply. There have been 3 different areas where A7.351 have raised questions: 1) DFire 2) AFPh 3) FG's Perry's answers seem to indicate that (in Perry's opinion) leaders are treated as firing for only certain aspects of each of the above cases...IOW, "...A leader that directs fire is sort of treated as semi-firing, sometimes, maybe..." What compounds the problem is that Perry almost never backs up any of his Perry Sez with rules references. Anyway, this "Perry Sez" is just more of the same confusing crap... Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From damavs at alltel.net Tue Jul 19 06:51:37 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue Jul 19 06:52:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") Message-ID: <20050719135137.FZBZ20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Tate Rogers writes: > What compounds the problem is that Perry almost never backs up any of his Perry Sez with rules references. Is there a reason he should? Yes, it would be convenient, but the purpose of a "Perry Sez" is to answer "how should this be played?" Not necessarily to elucidate on why it should be played this way. And besides if you're correct that the rules don't support the answer that Perry wants today, he can't quote the rules to support it. In other words - Perry's answer may indicate "this is how you're supposed to play it, rules errata will be coming to make the rules fall in line to this answer." Would you really want a Perry Sez to include rules erratta? Strike the last line of Ax.xx or whatever? And I have no idea if Perry is considering a change in the wording of the rules or not - I'm just pointing out it's possible based on his answer. > Anyway, this "Perry Sez" is just more of the same confusing crap... Although to be honest, have you ever played it the other way? That leaders can't direct boresights or can only direct MG ROF once? I've played hundreds of tourney games and NEVER had either interpretation even broached once. And this isn't an esoteric part of the rules really, it happens relatively often. Perry's answer is perfectly in line with how everyone I've ever seen play the game, which is hundreds of players, plays. Perhaps a rule change is needed to align how folks play w/the exact letter of the rule, but doing it via a Perry Sez makes little sense to me. There hasn't been any confusion in the ASL world on how to interpret these rules. Perry's answered how you're supposed to play it. Give him some time to clean up the rules before complaining. If it's not in the next Journal then perhaps there's reason to complain, but not now IMO. Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 19 07:30:42 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 19 07:30:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") Message-ID: <4403a9$172dtsa@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bret & Julie Hildebran > Date: 2005/07/19 Tue AM 08:51:37 CDT > To: Tate Rogers , , > Ole > B?e > CC: > Subject: Re: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") > > Tate Rogers writes: > > What compounds the problem is that Perry almost never backs up any of his Perry Sez with rules references. > > Is there a reason he should? Yes, it would be convenient, > but the purpose of a "Perry Sez" is to answer "how should > this be played?" Not necessarily to elucidate on why > it should be played this way. No, Perry's job is not to decide how anything "should" be played...that implies a mere opinion. Perry's job is suppose to be to back-up the rules not re-write them. The rules say a leader is treated as firing...OK, great. Then questions arise, well, if I treat a leader as firing then this, that, and the other must apply...right? "Perry Sez" no it doesn't...that's it...just, "no it doesn't". Any unit that fires gets a FF marker and all the baggage that goes with it _EXCEPT_ a leader...OK, well where is that "exception" in the rules for leaders marked FF? No where. A "no it doesn't" simply isn't good enough. > And besides if you're correct that the rules don't support > the answer that Perry wants today, he can't quote the rules > to support it. In other words - Perry's answer may > indicate "this is how you're supposed to play it, rules > errata will be coming to make the rules fall in line to > this answer." Then he should say such. BTW, in a seperate e-mail to myself Perry is of the opinion that no errata is required for this rule. Now, he may change his mind at a later date, but right now I don't believe he intends to change anything becuase in his "opinion" none is needed. Even though several know ASLML rules gurus (I do not include myself as such) have raised significant questions regarding A7.351 and what it means. > Would you really want a Perry Sez to include rules > erratta? Strike the last line of Ax.xx or whatever? Sure...why not. What would the problem be with that? A "Perry Sez" isn't official till published anyway so it shouldn't be an issue. Currently the implication is that: 1) There isn't a problem 2) That it is just an opinion as opposed to being based on the rules. > Although to be honest, have you ever played it the other > way? That leaders can't direct boresights or can only > direct MG ROF once? I've played hundreds of tourney games > and NEVER had either interpretation even broached once. > And this isn't an esoteric part of the rules really, it > happens relatively often. I understand what your saying...OTOH, I am sure you (like 90% of all ASL players) have played many rules wrong for years before finding out you were doing it wrong. Did you keep doing it wrong or did you change how you played? > Perry's answered how you're supposed to play it. Give him > some time to clean up the rules before complaining. If > it's not in the next Journal then perhaps there's reason > to complain, but not now IMO. As noted above, I have a private e-mail from Perry that seems to indicate that he doesn't believe any change is required. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From damavs at alltel.net Tue Jul 19 07:59:18 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue Jul 19 07:59:22 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") Message-ID: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Tate Rogers writes: > No, Perry's job is not to decide how anything "should" be played...that implies a mere opinion. Perry's job is suppose to be to back-up the rules not re-write them. Well he has historically spent a lot of his time re-writing the rules. See ASLRB V2. I'm not certain how determing how anything "should be played" is in fact significantly different than attempting to "back-up the rules". > The rules say a leader is treated as firing...OK, great. Then questions arise, well, if I treat a leader as firing then this, that, and the other must apply...right? "Perry Sez" no it doesn't...that's it...just, "no it doesn't". Is it not clear his intent? Do you not understand how it works based on that answer? > Any unit that fires gets a FF marker and all the baggage that goes with it _EXCEPT_ a leader...OK, well where is that "exception" in the rules for leaders marked FF? No where. Seemingly a valid question, although IMO you're getting to caught up in exactly how to mark guys. The fire markers are a convenience, not an all powerful rule that changes how the game is played. Look at all the issues with PFs and first fire counters for example. > Then he should say such. BTW, in a seperate e-mail to myself Perry is of the opinion that no errata is required for this rule. Now, he may change his mind at a later date, but right now I don't believe he intends to change anything becuase in his "opinion" none is needed. OK - that's certainly possible. To be honest I haven't walked through the rules in question to interpret them myself. You and Bruce seem to believe there's an issue which tells me there's at least some smoke. > Sure...why not. What would the problem be with that? I'd guess you'd see folks complaining about rewriting the Rulebook in an unofficial Perry Sez w/o even publishing it. I try not to underestimate the ASL World's ability to whine at any turn of events :-) > A "Perry Sez" isn't official till published anyway so it shouldn't be an issue. Currently the implication is that: > 1) There isn't a problem And given I've never seen a question of this ever arise in a game, I'm not sure this is a fallacious argument. > 2) That it is just an opinion as opposed to being based on the rules. It's an opinion on how the rule is supposed to be played. And it's the opinion that counts in the ASL world. > I understand what your saying...OTOH, I am sure you (like 90% of all ASL players) have played many rules wrong for years before finding out you were doing it wrong. Did you keep doing it wrong or did you change how you played? IMO the number is 100% of all ASLers have messed up a rule at some point or another. My point is that 100% of all ASLers I've seen play, and I've seen a large number play over the years, interpret this rule in line with the Perry Sez. So what's the problem? And yes if I found out I was officially playing a rule wrong of course I change my play. > As noted above, I have a private e-mail from Perry that seems to indicate that he doesn't believe any change is required. Guess I'll have to take the time to parse through the rules argument myself to see if I agree w/Perry on that or not. Again given how I've seen folks play it very consistently over the years where I can't recall the question ever arising, I can't fault Perry for that interpretation as a default position. Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org From garciagd at velocity.net Tue Jul 19 08:21:10 2005 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Tue Jul 19 08:17:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directingfire is treated as if he were firing.") References: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Message-ID: <009101c58c75$7ebb6600$3903010a@gecac.org> I was really hoping the Perry Sez would clear up (and end) this argument. But , it seems to me that it has only lead to the same confusion. Bret writes, "Again given how I've seen folks play it very consistently over the years where I can't recall the question ever arising.....," I would have to agree. I also agree with those who think (wish) that Perry would include a rules refrence when answering. But with his schedule, this would probably add to the time it takes to answer a question. Peace Roger Peace Roger From domorich at sprintmail.com Tue Jul 19 09:32:59 2005 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (Rich Domovic) Date: Tue Jul 19 09:33:13 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: In my next tourney scenario, I have drawn you, O Tasmanian oddball, in A103 Mayhem in Manila. Player - My HMG/10-1 leader in C2, leader directed, fire at your moving Ami squad in my boresited hex K5 (+1 orchard, +2 building, -1 non-assault move, -2 boresite, -1 leader). Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't boresite, so no leader bonus. Player - But there is a Perry sez on this. Tasmanian oddball - Nope, that is in my ignored Perry Sez file Player - OK, then I'll use my leader and ignore the boresited hex bonus, hoping to get rate on the HMG. Great I got rate, fire again at your broken unit, leader directed. Another rate, great. Player - Now I'll fire at your second unit moving into K5, leader directed. Tasmanian oddball - Your leader can't direct your HMG a third time because he was marked with a First Fire counter the first shot and a Final Fire counter the second shot. Player - Well I thought that as long as the HMG kept rate, the leader can direct it, There is a Perry Sez on this. Tasmanian oddball - Nope, the leader doesn't keep rate he has no ROF, once again the Perry Sez is in my ignored Perry Sez file. Player - OK, I'll hold my fire with the HMG, but my HIP 238/DC in O4 will throw a DC onto your BU Sherman in O4 to leave residual before you can bypass my hex. Tasmanian oddball - No, you can't throw a DC onto a BU tank to leave residual because you haven't specified the tank as the target and if you specify the tank as the target, there is no residual. Player - There is a Perry Sez on this which states you can use inherent fire or SW to leave residual even if you can't affect the tank. Tasmanian oddball - Nope, once again in my ignored Perry Sez file. Player - Well, I'll concede, your troops are run by a first class rules lawyer and near impossible to defeat. Tasmanian oddball - Good, there are some twelve year olds I need to crush in Mech War. Player - Hopefully, you haven't learned the ATS rules yet. Rich From damavs at alltel.net Tue Jul 19 10:51:21 2005 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue Jul 19 10:51:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <20050719175121.EDOJ21886.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Just remember the TD (tournament director) is your friend in cases like this. I'd be shocked to see a TD rule against you. Of course at some point you might rather just concede and get on with playing an enjoyable opponent instead of beating your head against the rules wall... Bret Hildebran damavs@alltel.net www.aslok.org "Rich Domovic" writes: > In my next tourney scenario, I have drawn you, O Tasmanian oddball, in A103 > Mayhem in Manila. > > Player - My HMG/10-1 leader in C2, leader directed, fire at your moving Ami > squad in my boresited hex K5 (+1 orchard, +2 building, -1 non-assault > move, -2 boresite, -1 leader). > > Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't boresite, so > no leader bonus. > > Player - But there is a Perry sez on this. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, that is in my ignored Perry Sez file > > Player - OK, then I'll use my leader and ignore the boresited hex bonus, > hoping to get rate on the HMG. Great I got rate, fire again at your broken > unit, leader directed. Another rate, great. > > Player - Now I'll fire at your second unit moving into K5, leader directed. > > Tasmanian oddball - Your leader can't direct your HMG a third time because > he was marked with a First Fire counter the first shot and a Final Fire > counter the second shot. > > Player - Well I thought that as long as the HMG kept rate, the leader can > direct it, There is a Perry Sez on this. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, the leader doesn't keep rate he has no ROF, once > again the Perry Sez is in my ignored Perry Sez file. > > Player - OK, I'll hold my fire with the HMG, but my HIP 238/DC in O4 will > throw a DC onto your BU Sherman in O4 to leave residual before you can > bypass my hex. > > Tasmanian oddball - No, you can't throw a DC onto a BU tank to leave > residual because you haven't specified the tank as the target and if you > specify the tank as the target, there is no residual. > > Player - There is a Perry Sez on this which states you can use inherent fire > or SW to leave residual even if you can't affect the tank. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, once again in my ignored Perry Sez file. > > Player - Well, I'll concede, your troops are run by a first class rules > lawyer and near impossible to defeat. > > Tasmanian oddball - Good, there are some twelve year olds I need to crush in > Mech War. > > Player - Hopefully, you haven't learned the ATS rules yet. > > Rich From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 19 11:25:29 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 19 11:25:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <44039q$166atsm@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Hey, that was funny... OTOH, the choice is this... Do you want to play with a patch work of rules or do you want the rules and the way you play to match? Keep in mind that Perry may not be the ASL rules Guru forever...we have already had instances of Perry's "opinion" differing from previous rules gurus. So 5 years from now what do we do when Joe Schmoo "New ASL Rules Guru" has a different view of what "treated as firing" means? Actually, to be honest, I still don't understand what "treated as firing" means right now...do you (beyond just an opinion). As far as I can tell "treated as firing" means the fire directing leader has fired except when he hasn't?!?!?! Perry seems to believe that there is some osmotic way for a player to discern when a leader directing fire is to be treated as "firing" and when he is only to be treated as "semi-firing" and when he is not treated as "firing" at all...I certainly don't see it in the rules and no one as yet shown me where to find it. > From: "Rich Domovic" > Date: 2005/07/19 Tue AM 11:32:59 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers > > In my next tourney scenario, I have drawn you, O Tasmanian oddball, in A103 > Mayhem in Manila. > > Player - My HMG/10-1 leader in C2, leader directed, fire at your moving Ami > squad in my boresited hex K5 (+1 orchard, +2 building, -1 non-assault > move, -2 boresite, -1 leader). > > Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't boresite, so > no leader bonus. > > Player - But there is a Perry sez on this. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, that is in my ignored Perry Sez file > > Player - OK, then I'll use my leader and ignore the boresited hex bonus, > hoping to get rate on the HMG. Great I got rate, fire again at your broken > unit, leader directed. Another rate, great. > > Player - Now I'll fire at your second unit moving into K5, leader directed. > > Tasmanian oddball - Your leader can't direct your HMG a third time because > he was marked with a First Fire counter the first shot and a Final Fire > counter the second shot. > > Player - Well I thought that as long as the HMG kept rate, the leader can > direct it, There is a Perry Sez on this. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, the leader doesn't keep rate he has no ROF, once > again the Perry Sez is in my ignored Perry Sez file. > > Player - OK, I'll hold my fire with the HMG, but my HIP 238/DC in O4 will > throw a DC onto your BU Sherman in O4 to leave residual before you can > bypass my hex. > > Tasmanian oddball - No, you can't throw a DC onto a BU tank to leave > residual because you haven't specified the tank as the target and if you > specify the tank as the target, there is no residual. > > Player - There is a Perry Sez on this which states you can use inherent fire > or SW to leave residual even if you can't affect the tank. > > Tasmanian oddball - Nope, once again in my ignored Perry Sez file. > > Player - Well, I'll concede, your troops are run by a first class rules > lawyer and near impossible to defeat. > > Tasmanian oddball - Good, there are some twelve year olds I need to crush in > Mech War. > > Player - Hopefully, you haven't learned the ATS rules yet. > > Rich Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 12:42:10 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 19 12:42:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <071920051942.18239.42DD5792000CD3F00000473F22069984990E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Tate writes: > > Keep in mind that Perry may not be the ASL rules Guru forever...we have already > had instances of Perry's "opinion" differing from previous rules gurus. So 5 > years from now what do we do when Joe Schmoo "New ASL Rules Guru" has a > different view of what "treated as firing" means? We suck it up and go along with his opinion. What choice is there? Please tell me we aren't going to start having rules decisions made by committee. Really, I don't see why Perry's ruling hasn't put this thread to bed, especially in this instance where the "Perry Sez" is in line with how we all agree we have always played it and how we will all likely play it in the future. It's just not that contentious a subject. Maybe you feel like you've got something personally invested in this since you first brought it to light. It's okay, you can let it go. Dave Reenstra From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 19 13:10:58 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 19 13:11:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <4403cd$17c0k4p@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: dreenstra@comcast.net > Date: 2005/07/19 Tue PM 02:42:10 CDT > To: Tate Rogers , , > > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers > > Really, I don't see why Perry's ruling hasn't put this thread to bed, especially in this instance where the "Perry Sez" is in line with how we all agree we have always played it and how we will all likely play it in the future. It's just not that contentious a subject. Maybe you feel like you've got something personally invested in this since you first brought it to light. It's okay, you can let it go. > Why does it have to be personal? The the way we play should be supported by the rules...and vice versa. As it stands one can not get to Perry's answer using the rules. The rule needs to be changed to match how we play. That way, 2-3 years down the road we don't have to worry about the new guy coming up with a whole new interpratation. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From oleboe at broadpark.no Tue Jul 19 14:53:56 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Tue Jul 19 14:53:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Message-ID: Hi, I think the current discussion is a storm in a bottle. It would of course be better if Perry explained his answers, but in this case there is (IMHO) very little to explain - since the only thing he says is that a certain sentence is to be understood exactly as 99.9% of the ASL community have played it - including Bruce Probst and Tate Rogers. So if any Perry sez is safe, it should be this. Noone should be surprised - or worried because Bruce and Tate continue to disagree. They're not exactly the two *least* stubborn people on the ASLML. They both complain that the Perry sez. is hard to understand, but playing it the way they've always done before and that everyone else do cannot be *that* hard... None of them brings up any actual problematic consequences of the Perry sez though - probably because there are none. As for requiring errata: I'm first in the line of wishing for a rewrite of A7 and A8, since there is just too many vague parts there, and it would be arrogant to insist that the particular sentence is clear. However, until such errata exists, I see no reason (except for stubbornness) to oppose the Perry sez. Especially since Bruce and Tate (who both think the Perry sez. makes no sense) cannot agree on how to interprete the rule, but even more since both look away from the fact that if the leader really is making a fire attack, he is no longer allowed to direct SW ordnance (since ordnance must fire alone). Such weird consequences of their interpretation is (IMHO) a clear indication that Perry's answer is correct. --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 19 18:21:33 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (bprobst@netspace.net.au) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:21:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> I'm not from Tasmania, and while I may be many things I don't consider "oddball" to be a fair description, but let's play along for now .... >Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't boresite, so >no leader bonus. Yes, that's pretty much what I'd say. >Player - But there is a Perry sez on this. >Tasmanian oddball - Nope, that is in my ignored Perry Sez file No, what I actually say is that the Perry Sez is in clear conflict with the rules. It's not a complicated train of logic: the BS rules state that the entire FG must qualify for the BS DRM, and the leader is part of the FG. Now, if you want to dispute whether the leader is part of the FG or not, that's up to you, but it's a short argument; a FG consists of all units firing together, which includes the leader because A7.351 says that leaders directing fire are considered to be firing themselves. To argue otherwise requires some printed rule that no-one has yet discovered. >Player - OK, then I'll use my leader and ignore the boresited hex bonus, >hoping to get rate on the HMG. Great I got rate, fire again at your broken >unit, leader directed. Another rate, great. >Player - Now I'll fire at your second unit moving into K5, leader directed. >Tasmanian oddball - Your leader can't direct your HMG a third time because >he was marked with a First Fire counter the first shot and a Final Fire >counter the second shot. I of course say nothing of the sort. What I actually say is "OK", because we both know that the existing rules say this quite clearly already, and we don't need a "Perry Sez" to confirm it. >Player - OK, I'll hold my fire with the HMG, but my HIP 238/DC in O4 will >throw a DC onto your BU Sherman in O4 to leave residual before you can >bypass my hex. >Tasmanian oddball - No, you can't throw a DC onto a BU tank to leave >residual because you haven't specified the tank as the target and if you >specify the tank as the target, there is no residual. Darn tootin'. Although I may be wrong about the "target the tank and no residual" part. I don't think it's clear one way or the other. In a tournament I'd concede the point. (You do have to target the tank, though.) >Player - There is a Perry Sez on this which states you can use inherent fire >or SW to leave residual even if you can't affect the tank. >Tasmanian oddball - Nope, once again in my ignored Perry Sez file. Yes, again, because it clearly contradicts the printed rules. None of this is complicated. A "Perry Sez" can have one of several formats: 1. It can be a restating or confirmation of an existing rule. This is a "clarification". Helpful to people who are having trouble following (or believing) the printed rules text. 2. It can be a statement defining what the rules leave unsaid. This is an "expansion" of the printed rule (aka "plugging a hole"); i.e., it says something new. Since what it says is not covered by any other rule, it's unlikely to conflict with anything the rules already say, so there's usually no reason to disagree with it. 3. It can be a correction to what the rules currently say. This is "errata". To qualify as errata, it must supply alternate text. The old text is voided and the new text becomes true. Until it becomes official, though, it should be treated with care; sometimes errata has unintended consequences. Perry has (occasionally) issued unofficial errata that later was deliberately not made official, or was made official using different text, because of these unintended consequences. 4. It can be wrong. It says something that contradicts what the rule currently says, but doesn't claim to be errata. Perry's only human; he can make mistakes like any of us. If what he says isn't supported by the rules, and he isn't issuing errata, then he's simply wrong, and the Perry Sez should be ignored. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 19 18:30:22 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (bprobst@netspace.net.au) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:30:27 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <380-22005732013022580@M2W053.mail2web.com> >I of course say nothing of the sort. What I actually say is "OK", because >we both know that the existing rules say this quite clearly already, and we >don't need a "Perry Sez" to confirm it. Sorry -- to clarify -- I say "OK" because we both know that the leader may continue directing the MG for so long as the MG maintains ROF, which is the part already clearly in the rules. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From s.deller at charter.net Tue Jul 19 18:36:39 2005 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:36:56 2005 Subject: [Aslml] J92 scenario & errata if any References: <42DAFAA8.9080807@charter.net> Message-ID: <002001c58ccb$818d0680$6ebb7344@DHT8S631> Chas, Where was this issued? I can't find it. Cheers, Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chas Argent" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] J92 scenario & errata if any > Gus- > > Yes, the was errata issued after J6 came out, which gives the Filipinos > the VPs for the DCs if the Japanese fail to Clear them. > > Also, note that the Filipinos do not Disrupt, according to the same > errata. > > Regards, > Chas > > > bearlyonthehill@optonline.net wrote: > >>Listers - >> >>I have questions about the VP on the selected hexes that have a set DC. If >>the DC's are not defused and become rubble, do the Filipinos receive the >>VPs? If the answer is no, can the Filipinos defuse their own DC and gain >>the VPs? >> >>The reason for the questions are, it seems that if the Filipions cannot >>defuse their own DC for VPs or receive the rubble hexes for VPs, there is >>no reason for the Japanese to be the aggressors. They can hope to defuse >>two of the four DCs then sit back and wait for the counterattack. >> >>Your help is greatly appreciated. >> >>Gus >>_______________________________________________ >>Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >>Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >>http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >>To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 7/16/2005 > > From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Jul 19 18:40:11 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:40:17 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers In-Reply-To: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net > [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of > bprobst@netspace.net.au > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:22 PM > To: domorich@sprintmail.com; aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: RE: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers > > > Now, if you want to dispute whether the leader is part of the FG or not, > that's up to you, but it's a short argument; a FG consists of all units > firing together, which includes the leader because A7.351 says > that leaders > directing fire are considered to be firing themselves. To argue otherwise > requires some printed rule that no-one has yet discovered. > > I of course say nothing of the sort. What I actually say is "OK", because > we both know that the existing rules say this quite clearly > already, and we > don't need a "Perry Sez" to confirm it. Right, Bruce has decided to apply A7.351 selectively. In one instance, FG, Bruce says, yes...a leader is treated as firing when he directs. In the case of ROF weapons Bruce says, no...a leader is not treated as firing when directing. Of course he points to some rule or other that has absolutely no reference to an exception for the effects of fire markers. IOW, Bruce and I differ on this point which only brings to a greater highlight why that statement in A7.351 needs to be fixed. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au Tue Jul 19 18:52:25 2005 From: JPCole at agric.wa.gov.au (Cole, Jonathan) Date: Tue Jul 19 18:54:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 Message-ID: Hi D4.2 says "A HD target may not also claim a Case Q TH DRM but it may claim an in-hex Case Q TH DRM in lieu of HD status" When does the target make the decision as to whether to claim Case Q or HD status, before or after the TH DR is made? I.e. in the B9.36 EX on page B10, if the PzIVH declares a shot on the IS-2 in hex O8, when does the latter decide if it wants to have HD status or apply the Case Q building TH DRM? TIA Cheers Jon "Not a Tasmanian oddball, just married to one" This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for use of the addressee.The confidentiality and/or privilege is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you received this e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail to the sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. From domorich at sprintmail.com Tue Jul 19 19:28:48 2005 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (Rich Domovic) Date: Tue Jul 19 19:29:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] rules lawyer Message-ID: I agree, we should play with a set of rules that matches how we play. The devil is in the details, as the rulebook is very complex, omits some things and even contradicts itself (higher rule prevails). I don't know what other rules interpretation system would work. ASL's situation isn't unique, Major League Baseball defines a strike as a pitch crossing home plate between the knees and letters, rarely called that way. How about the phantom touch of second base in a double play or no fielder may impede a runner (other than the catcher blocking the plate?). Just look at how much effort MLB put into standardizing all umpire's strike zones. In ASL we are stuck with "Perry Sez" on issues like the concealed assault move bump, leader firing several times with a ROF weapon but not treated as firing... I think it is the best system we have, infinitely better than individuals with their own house rules which differ from the "Perry Sez" compendium. If Perry ceases to be rules guru, then long live the new king. Rich Hey, that was funny... OTOH, the choice is this... Do you want to play with a patch work of rules or do you want the rules and the way you play to match? Keep in mind that Perry may not be the ASL rules Guru forever...we have already had instances of Perry's "opinion" differing from previous rules gurus. So 5 years from now what do we do when Joe Schmoo "New ASL Rules Guru" has a different view of what "treated as firing" means? Actually, to be honest, I still don't understand what "treated as firing" means right now...do you (beyond just an opinion). As far as I can tell "treated as firing" means the fire directing leader has fired except when he hasn't?!?!?! Perry seems to believe that there is some osmotic way for a player to discern when a leader directing fire is to be treated as "firing" and when he is only to be treated as "semi-firing" and when he is not treated as "firing" at all...I certainly don't see it in the rules and no one as yet shown me where to find it. From robertthepastor at juno.com Tue Jul 19 22:48:02 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Tue Jul 19 22:49:57 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Asking for grace Message-ID: <20050719.224807.8196.1.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Please, excuse the wide bandwidth. To all who have a game with me right now, I ask for your indulgence. I will be down for about 2 weeks as my mother stepped into eternity today. Thank you for your understanding. Take care, Robert Hammond From thunderchief at ozemail.com.au Wed Jul 20 00:08:06 2005 From: thunderchief at ozemail.com.au (Adam Lunney) Date: Wed Jul 20 00:08:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT - German song query Message-ID: <01b501c58cf9$ca94ec70$0201010a@yourfulkl1oh2q> Hi all (esp those in Germany), I have been listening to Berlin Rundfunk 91.4 on the internet lately and there is a song in German which I quite like but have no idea of the name of the song. It has been played a few times, so perhaps it is a new song, I'm not sure and the little bit of German I understand is not helping me much. It sounds like a bit of US country/western song but in German, and I think the guy singing is saying something about trees in the chorus. I could be totally wrong - wouldn't be the first time! Can anyone help me out with the name of the song and artist? thanks in advance. Adam "Starting German lessons next week" Lunney Australia From peter.rogneholt at home.se Wed Jul 20 04:23:24 2005 From: peter.rogneholt at home.se (Peter Rogneholt) Date: Wed Jul 20 04:23:26 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 References: Message-ID: <002c01c58d1d$77efa810$d559413e@maskinen> Hi Guys May not claim TEM instead of HD if behind a Wall, see: 4.21 WALL/ROADBLOCK: A vehicular target fired on by Direct Fire through a wall/bocage/roadblock hexside that would affect that fire with a +2 or +1 TEM (see B9.3-.36 and B9.5) is instead considered HD to that fire. Peter "Commissar Piotr" Rogneholt peter.rogneholt@home.se ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cole, Jonathan" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 > Hi > > D4.2 says "A HD target may not also claim a Case Q TH DRM but it may claim > an in-hex Case Q TH DRM in lieu of HD status" > > When does the target make the decision as to whether to claim Case Q or HD > status, before or after the TH DR is made? I.e. in the B9.36 EX on page B10, > if the PzIVH declares a shot on the IS-2 in hex O8, when does the latter > decide if it wants to have HD status or apply the Case Q building TH DRM? > > TIA > > Cheers > Jon "Not a Tasmanian oddball, just married to one" > > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and > confidential information > intended for use of the addressee.The confidentiality and/or privilege is > not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If > you received this > e-mail in error you must (a) not dissemminate, copy or take any action in > reliance on it; > (b) please notify the Department of Agriculture immediately by return e-mail > to the sender; > (c) please delete the original e-mail. > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From steven.linton at bigpond.com Wed Jul 20 05:08:40 2005 From: steven.linton at bigpond.com (Steven Linton) Date: Wed Jul 20 05:10:34 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers In-Reply-To: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> References: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I'm not getting into the whole "when a leader fires in the forest" thing, but I do feel compelled to clear up one small thing. On 20/07/2005, at 11:21 AM, bprobst@netspace.net.au wrote: > I'm not from Tasmania, and while I may be many things I don't consider > "oddball" to be a fair description, but let's play along for now .... > >> Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't >> boresite, so >> no leader bonus. > > Yes, that's pretty much what I'd say. > But it isn't, as I know from personal experience, how he would 'play'. And stop picking on Tasmanians - that's our job. Steve From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Wed Jul 20 06:13:58 2005 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Wed Jul 20 05:12:58 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 In-Reply-To: <002c01c58d1d$77efa810$d559413e@maskinen> Message-ID: <000001c58d2c$e40a87e0$6401a8c0@NewDell> > > Hi Guys > May not claim TEM instead of HD if behind a Wall, see: > 4.21 WALL/ROADBLOCK: A vehicular target fired on by Direct > Fire through a wall/bocage/roadblock hexside that would > affect that fire with a +2 or +1 TEM (see B9.3-.36 and B9.5) > is instead considered HD to that fire. I think the question has to do with other TEM--e.g. a tank behind a wall in a building. My rule of thumb is: if the TH is 6 or less before application, take the TEM. I think the timing has to be before the dice are rolled, but the ASLRBv2 does not specify order. I do not think I would play someone who demanded that the decision be made after the TH DR had been made. From jmmcleod at mts.net Wed Jul 20 05:20:12 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Wed Jul 20 05:20:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers References: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <004801c58d25$61e45ef0$4927c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Listerz, Steve wrote, > And stop picking on Tasmanians - that's our job. > > Steve Steve, I believe our friend does have a Non-resident Permit for doing so and what with Bruces rather attractive plummage, he would be silly not to have a go at him. It is the season after all. =Jim= From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 20 05:26:11 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 20 05:28:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers Message-ID: <4404pq$17cjf9m@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> > > From: Steven Linton > Date: 2005/07/20 Wed AM 07:08:40 CDT > To: bprobst@netspace.net.au > CC: domorich@sprintmail.com, aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers > > I'm not getting into the whole "when a leader fires in the forest" > thing, but I do feel compelled to clear up one small thing. > On 20/07/2005, at 11:21 AM, bprobst@netspace.net.au wrote: > > > I'm not from Tasmania, and while I may be many things I don't consider > > "oddball" to be a fair description, but let's play along for now .... > > > >> Tasmanian oddball - Your leader is infantry and infantry can't > >> boresite, so > >> no leader bonus. > > > > Yes, that's pretty much what I'd say. > > > But it isn't, as I know from personal experience, how he would 'play'. > Which is why the rule needs to be changed. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From styson at fchoice.com Wed Jul 20 06:14:16 2005 From: styson at fchoice.com (Sam Tyson) Date: Wed Jul 20 06:14:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe Message-ID: unsubscribe From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Jul 20 07:08:21 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:09:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 In-Reply-To: <000001c58d2c$e40a87e0$6401a8c0@NewDell> Message-ID: Hi, Brian W wrote: > I think the question has to do with other TEM--e.g. a tank behind a wall > in a building. My rule of thumb is: if the TH is 6 or less before > application, take the TEM. The Gun's TK# compared to the AFV's different Armor Factors may also affect your decision. If the Gun can only harm your turret, then you will always choose TEM over HD - however if the hull is most vulnerable, or if the Gun declares a Deliberate Immobilization attempt, then you will always choose HD. > I think the timing has to be before the dice are rolled, but the ASLRBv2 > does not specify order. I do not think I would play someone who demanded > that the decision be made after the TH DR had been made. > I agree. --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From malm at gol.com Wed Jul 20 07:11:14 2005 From: malm at gol.com (Malcolm Rutledge) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:11:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050720230741.026e3cf0@pop3.norton.antivirus> No! It was a nice try Sam, but you won't get rid of me that easily! Malcolm "Not susceptible to liminal messages" Rutledge At 10:14 p.m. 20/07/2005, Sam Tyson wrote: >unsubscribe >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 07:24:14 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:23:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> References: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:59:18 -0400, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >You and Bruce seem to believe there's an issue >which tells me there's at least some smoke. Just to clarify ... I'm not sure what Tate's opinion about leadership direction of BS is, I can't recall him making a comment about it; but I very strongly disagree with Tate's interpretation of how First Fire affects leadership, and I for one am extremely comfortable with the printed rules so far as that goes. So it's not really true to say that "we" see "an issue". (Which, if nothing else, shows that these rules could do with some rewriting for clarity.) >I'd guess you'd see folks complaining about rewriting the >Rulebook in an unofficial Perry Sez w/o even publishing it. >I try not to underestimate the ASL World's ability to >whine at any turn of events :-) Hasn't happened so far, so far as I know. I believe every instance (that I can recall) of Perry issuing "unofficial" errata was followed by "official" publication soon after, so generally these aren't things that have been allowed to percolate for long periods. (It's also questionable just what sort of "market penetration" the unofficial errata gets. Heck, a lot of players seem blissfully ignorant about *official* errata.) >And it's the opinion that counts in the ASL world. Well, yes and no. When I'm sitting at a table opposite my opponent it's our combined opinions that count for the game currently being played. And if we both agree that Perry is wrong, then he's wrong. Where problems may occur is if one player strongly disagrees with what "Perry Sez" (because they don't appear to abide by the printed rules), and the other player disagrees with the disagreement . I'm not sure which would be worse: the other player agrees with Perry about what the rules allegedly say, or if the other player is just prepared to accept whatever "Perry Sez", no matter what. My stance is that I like to *think* about what the rules say, and what the answers to the questions are. If Perry's answers don't match what I expect, then one of us is wrong, and I don't agree with any position that claims Perry is allowed to be *automatically* right without some sort of explanation supported by the rules. I don't believe that sort of hand-waving helps anyone gain any sort of understanding about how the rules work. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 07:33:51 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:33:07 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: References: <20050719145918.IMNP20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:53:56 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >but even more >since both look away from the fact that if the leader really is making a >fire attack, he is no longer allowed to direct SW ordnance (since ordnance >must fire alone). Such weird consequences of their interpretation is (IMHO) >a clear indication that Perry's answer is correct. You don't help your position by inventing imaginary problems with other peoples' arguments. Leaders are *specifically permitted* to direct SW ordnance thanks to, guess what, A7.531 (second-last sentence). The issue of what is and what isn't a FG simply doesn't come into it. It's such failure to notice what's staring you in the face that is (IMHO) a clear indication that you've never had a very good grasp of what this argument is actually about. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 07:32:54 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:33:11 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: <20050719135137.FZBZ20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> References: <20050719135137.FZBZ20726.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 9:51:37 -0400, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >Would you really want a Perry Sez to include rules >erratta? Strike the last line of Ax.xx or whatever? Absolutely. You say this as though it would be something new; it's not, he's done it before. >Although to be honest, have you ever played it the other >way? That leaders can't direct boresights When I realised that the rules as printed do indeed prohibit leaders directing BS attacks, I stopped playing it that way. However, I only came to that realisation very recently, so it hasn't impacted on a great many games so far. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 07:49:19 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 20 07:50:32 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:52:25 +0800, "Cole, Jonathan" wrote: >D4.2 says "A HD target may not also claim a Case Q TH DRM but it may claim >an in-hex Case Q TH DRM in lieu of HD status" > >When does the target make the decision as to whether to claim Case Q or HD >status, before or after the TH DR is made? I.e. in the B9.36 EX on page B10, >if the PzIVH declares a shot on the IS-2 in hex O8, when does the latter >decide if it wants to have HD status or apply the Case Q building TH DRM? You know, it hadn't really occurred to me that it's the *target* who claims either HD or TEM. I had assumed that it's the *firer* who makes the choice (and that choice would naturally be declared before the TH DR is made). I think that it's a minor point either way. Simple rules of good gaming would require that the choice be made known before the TH DR is made, so that neither player could retroactively alter the situation in his favour. Generally speaking it would be fair to assume that the defender will always choose the option most favourable to him, but that requires calculating the actual odds, and it would not always be a straight-forward procedure. Not only do you need to compare the percentage chance of achieving an actual hit by either method, but for many vehicles you'd also need to factor in the armour values of hull and turret vs. the TK# of the ammunition involved .... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 08:04:02 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 20 08:04:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Lawyers In-Reply-To: References: <380-22005732012133215@M2W077.mail2web.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:08:40 +1000, Steven Linton wrote: >> Yes, that's pretty much what I'd say. >> >But it isn't, as I know from personal experience, how he would 'play'. Steve, since as best as I can recall I haven't played you anytime in the last two months or so, which is when I first realised that leaders can't direct a BS attack, I'm afraid that your personal experience is a tad out-of-date. Yeah, I was playing this wrong forever. There was a time when I believed that a squad could participate in a BS attack as well. ASL never stops being a learning experience .... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 20 11:09:27 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 20 11:09:30 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") Message-ID: <43vtj8$128q9vq@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bruce Probst > Date: 2005/07/20 Wed AM 09:24:14 CDT > To: damavs@alltel.net > CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing > fire is treated as if he were firing.") > > > Just to clarify ... I'm not sure what Tate's opinion about leadership > direction of BS is, I can't recall him making a comment about it; but I very > strongly disagree with Tate's interpretation of how First Fire affects > leadership, and I for one am extremely comfortable with the printed rules so > far as that goes. Yes, Bruce is comfortable with the fact that there isn't one single rule that explicitly gives an exception to leaders relative to the effect of being marked with a First/Final Fire counter. He references some rule about directing a ROF SW "more than once" as some how translating to "leaders are exempt from all effects of being marked First/Final Fire". As to BS, yes, I agree with Bruce. In general, I think where our opinions converge is that the statement in A7.351 ("treated as firing") regarding leader direction has a unintended effects. > So it's not really true to say that "we" see "an issue". Only part of it... > (Which, if nothing else, shows that these rules could do with some rewriting > for clarity.) Ditto... Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 20 11:17:18 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 20 11:17:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe Message-ID: <43vtj5$126uafk@mxip09a.cluster1.charter.net> NO! The ASLML is kind of like the Mafia...once your in, your in for life...capisca!!! > From: "Sam Tyson" > Date: 2005/07/20 Wed AM 08:14:16 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe > > unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:04:53 2005 From: chuck.tewksbury at gmail.com (Chuck T) Date: Wed Jul 20 14:05:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <332a4d03050720140446609257@mail.gmail.com> say it aint so On 7/20/05, Sam Tyson wrote: > unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- Chuck T chuck.tewksbury@gmail.com From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Jul 20 14:47:53 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Wed Jul 20 14:47:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531"A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Bruce wrote: > You don't help your position by inventing imaginary problems with other > peoples' arguments. Leaders are *specifically permitted* to direct SW > ordnance thanks to, guess what, A7.531 (second-last sentence). > The issue of what is and what isn't a FG simply doesn't come into it. Well, A7.51 says: "Ordnance-weapons/Canister/IFE may not form a FG with any other unit..." So in this case there are two possibilities. 1) Perry's answer, that a leader is not making an attack and therefore not part of a FG is correct, and both rules makes sense, or... 2) A7.51 and A7.351 is in conflict. I'm not in doubt about which option I choose. > It's such failure to notice what's staring you in the face that > is (IMHO) a clear indication that you've never had a very good > grasp of what this argument is actually about. > Having to shift the focus towards such personal attacks, is IMHO a good indication of the same... --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From daveolie at eastlink.ca Wed Jul 20 14:58:57 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Wed Jul 20 15:02:44 2005 Subject: [Aslml] OT: What if WWII had been a RTS? Message-ID: <00b301c58d76$3f23df20$a64d8918@klis.com> Hey, all. Well, this is marginally on-topic; at least it's about WWII and gaming. http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_20057151.asp Check it out. I was ROTFLMAO. David "1337" Olie From willette at gmpexpress.net Wed Jul 20 16:18:04 2005 From: willette at gmpexpress.net (joe willette) Date: Wed Jul 20 16:18:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook In-Reply-To: <00b301c58d76$3f23df20$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: Just got the new rulebopok. Somehow I was under the inpression that a comprehensive errata list would be included. DId I misunderstand? Joe From hofors at lysator.liu.se Wed Jul 20 16:21:22 2005 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: Wed Jul 20 16:21:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Friendly Fire proofers Message-ID: Hi, we're looking for native english-speaking proofers for the last two scenarios of the Friendly Fire 2005 pack (designed for the upcoming Friendly Fire ASL tournament). Any help is appreciated. Regards, Mattias From pferraro at greenepa.net Wed Jul 20 16:33:01 2005 From: pferraro at greenepa.net (Paul Ferraro) Date: Wed Jul 20 16:32:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Friendly Fire proofers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > we're looking for native english-speaking proofers for the last two > scenarios of the Friendly Fire 2005 pack (designed for the upcoming > Friendly Fire ASL tournament). Any help is appreciated. I can proof read... Paul Ferraro From sidirezegh at charter.net Wed Jul 20 16:54:58 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Wed Jul 20 16:55:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> You did misunderstand. The Chapter Dividers did have their errata corrected, however, so maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding... Regards, Chas joe willette wrote: >Just got the new rulebopok. Somehow I was under the inpression that a >comprehensive errata list would be included. DId I misunderstand? > >Joe > > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > From res07v0l at verizon.net Wed Jul 20 08:43:34 2005 From: res07v0l at verizon.net (res07v0l@verizon.net) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:12:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Question on D4.2 Message-ID: <28602474.1121874214421.JavaMail.root@vms063.mailsrvcs.net> >The Gun's TK# compared to the AFV's different Armor Factors >may also affect your decision. Yes, it is only a rule of thumb. Other factors affect the equation, but generally the rule of thumb is the starting point. From styson at fchoice.com Wed Jul 20 14:02:08 2005 From: styson at fchoice.com (Sam Tyson) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:12:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe Message-ID: Relax - just changing email addresses.... you think I can live without this drivel or something? Sam -----Original Message----- From: Tate Rogers [mailto:gr27134@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:17 PM To: Sam Tyson; aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] unsubscribe NO! The ASLML is kind of like the Mafia...once your in, your in for life...capisca!!! > From: "Sam Tyson" > Date: 2005/07/20 Wed AM 08:14:16 CDT > To: > Subject: [Aslml] unsubscribe > > unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From cjsloki at comcast.net Wed Jul 20 17:18:06 2005 From: cjsloki at comcast.net (cjs) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:18:02 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook In-Reply-To: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> Message-ID: <000201c58d89$ab502740$0b00a8c0@DC1R2241> Hi, This is what Keith Dalton said on the ASL forums: "This rulebook contains two errata sheets at the end of the index with a complete listing of all know rulebook errata." Charles -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Chas Argent Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:55 PM To: joe willette Cc: ASL Mailing List Subject: Re: [Aslml] ASL rulebook You did misunderstand. The Chapter Dividers did have their errata corrected, however, so maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding... Regards, Chas joe willette wrote: >Just got the new rulebopok. Somehow I was under the inpression that a >comprehensive errata list would be included. DId I misunderstand? > >Joe > > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From tsharp1948 at comcast.net Wed Jul 20 17:45:18 2005 From: tsharp1948 at comcast.net (Tom and Sandy Sharp) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:45:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ATG Message-ID: <001601c58d8d$784a2f40$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> According to C5.11 a ATG which maintains is ROF has a CA counter placed on it for it's retained ROF shot. C5.64 restricts the ATG from changing CA to another target if it has previously fired from within woods, buildings or rubble and cannot change CA for further fire. I have some questions. If the ATG is NOT in woods..etc. can it change CA if it retains ROF and fire on another target (using conditional ROF of course)? If it has no further targets, can if simply then change it's CA and NOT fire? If it IS in woods..etc. can it also change is CA after firing if it retains ROF (of course NO additionals shots are taken)? Thanks From aslbunker at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 17:48:22 2005 From: aslbunker at yahoo.com (Vic Provost) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:48:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Dispatches from the Bunker #21 July Update Message-ID: <20050721004822.59162.qmail@web32604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings from the Bunker and hello to all at the yasl Mailing List. Just wanted to give everyone a progress report on Issue #21 which is due out at the Bunker Bash September 17th. We are winding down playtesting by the beginning of August at which time we will be going into the proofreading/editing phase. Playtesting has seen very close results to this point on the usual 3 scenarios, 2 of which are excellent Steve Johns designs: Erstwhile Allies, set in 1942 Algeria portraying some of the initial fighting by the Big Red 1 Infantry Division as it tries to wrest control of Board 22 buildings from some tough French Legionnaires, and Wetlet, a nasty '45 fight between die hard Japanese and Commonwealth Indian units at Wetlet in Burma. Steve makes great use of overlays on board 49 giving it a different feel and showing how one can change the complexion of a board without going completely overboard with them. Both have had initial thumbs up rave reviews at the Bunker, are perfect tournament style actions in size and play length and will be sent out to the usual suspects for testing after the Memorial Day Holiday. Our 3rd scenario is the second in our Fabulous Thunderbirds series and first design by Bunker Crewman Joe Gochinski.It is a meaty action set in Sicily as the Thunderbirds assault the airfield at Biscari. What makes for extra excitement and intrigue with this one is the variable OB additions that BOTH sides choose to augment their at start OBs. This makes for initial Fog of War and added replayability for what could develop into a real Dispatches Classic. This one needs a little more work than the other two, I will be putting out a call for playtesters next month for it. Also on tap will be another Jim Torkelson article, Carl Nogueira's Tactical Tips and my look at HOBs Beyond the Beachhead. Looks like a fine follow up to our special 20th Dispatch. It being our 20th Issue, we felt that we would do something special for it, so it is in color, and received a nicely positive response at the Nor'Easter. As usual we have three action-packed scenarios, including analysis for each, including another Tourney style action from Steve Johns: Hill 731, this one portraying the Italian offensive into Greece during the Axis invasion of the Balkans in '41. An Italian Combined Arms Force is attacking a Greek border defense unit on Board 11. Quick playing and action packed with these Minor forces. Also seen in this Issue will be the Backhand Blow, a Kharkov '43 slug-fest, with the 1st SS trying to smash there way into the Factory District of the city through a mixed Russian defense. Last but not least, the first in our 45th 'Thunderbirds' Infantry Division series, this one in southern France in 1944 with the Americans defending key buildings with the help of the French Resistance against a nasty counterattack by the famed 11th Panzer, the 'Ghost' Division. We've had a ball testing these, and hope they will be fun for all. We'll also have another fine article co-authored by Jim Torkelson and Vince O'Connell, looking at the game from a novice perspective. Also on tap we have Carl Nogueira's tactical Tips, a look back at both the 2004 Bunker Bash and the New York State ASL Championship held last December in Albany, and a look at the Nor'Easter Tournament. This 12 page Amateur Newsletter comes to the greater ASL Community twice a year, sometime in March and September courtesy of the New England ASL Community, including the Bunker Crew and our yasl Brothers in Southern New England. IF this sounds like snake eyes in Close Combat vs that Tiger II Tank, Subscriptions and ALL Back-Issues are still available, and here is how to get yours (all prices include S & H, make all checks/money orders out to Vic Provost, Please, NOT Dispatches from the Bunker): 4 Issue Subscription (Starting with current Issue #20): In the USA: $13.00 (Check/Money Order/Cash) Outside the States: $15.00 (International Postal Money Order or USA Currency Only, Sorry, NO Credit Cards, Personal Checks not drawn on a USA Bank, NO Western Union, this is an Old School Amateur Effort and our Hobby, not a Full Time 'Business' :-) Payment Update: After listening quite attentively to the pleading of my foreign subscribers I have broke down and opened a PayPal account. So either domestic or foreign orders may now be paid to me by sending your remittance in USA Funds via PayPal to PinkFloydFan1954@aol.com If using Paypal please also notify me here at aslbunker@aol.com with your shipping address and just what you are ordering, Thanks. Back-Issues: Issue #01 is our FREE Preview Issue available with any New Subscription or upon request with a #10 SASE. All other Back-Issues (#02 - #19) are $3.50 Each in the USA or $4.00 Each outside the States. All 20 Issues in print (No subscription): $45.00 in the USA, $50.00 outside the states. The Works: All 20 Issues plus a 4 Issue Subscription, starting with current Issue #20 (23 Issues in total) $55.00 in the USA, $60.00 outside the states Make your remittance out to Vic Provost and send to: Vic Provost Dispatches from the Bunker P.O. Box 2024 Hinsdale MA 01235 USA Any other questions just reply to my e-mail at: aslbunker@aol.com and I'll do my best to answer your query. Thanks again to all my Contributors, Playtesters, and Subscribers, without whom the Newsletter would not be possible. Thanks for your time and consideration, your ASL Comrade, Vic Provost. 'SSR: All Occupants of the Bunker Location are considered Fanatic [A10.8]' ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From sidirezegh at charter.net Wed Jul 20 17:16:46 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Wed Jul 20 17:53:00 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook In-Reply-To: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> References: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> Message-ID: <42DEE96E.5010207@charter.net> Whoops, I am wrong; there is a list of errata at the back of the index. Sheesh... -Chas Chas Argent wrote: > You did misunderstand. > > The Chapter Dividers did have their errata corrected, however, so > maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding... > > Regards, > Chas > > joe willette wrote: > >> Just got the new rulebopok. Somehow I was under the inpression that a >> comprehensive errata list would be included. DId I misunderstand? >> >> Joe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >> Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 18:47:31 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (bprobst@netspace.net.au) Date: Wed Jul 20 18:47:52 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <380-2200574211473115@M2W058.mail2web.com> >Well, A7.51 says: "Ordnance-weapons/Canister/IFE may not form a FG with any >other unit..." So? >So in this case there are two possibilities. >1) Perry's answer, that a leader is not making an attack and therefore not >part of a FG is correct, and both rules makes sense, or... Certainly not true (as has alerady been demonstrated). >2) A7.51 and A7.351 is in conflict. Also not true. It's true that A7.51 says "no firegroups". It's also true that A7.351 says that leaders may direct the fire of SW ordnance. Both of these things are simultaneously true. Even though the leader *normally* forms a FG when directing fire, he doesn't in the case of SW ordnance; nevertheless, he's allowed to direct that fire. Hence, no conflict. That's the convenience of rules that specifically allow you to do something, even if another rule seems to imply that you can't. This principle is also known as "COWTRA". >Having to shift the focus towards such personal attacks What personal attack? I'm stating a fact: ever since this particular discussion started, you've been confused about it. I've pointed this out previously. Remember, after you accused me of deliberately lying? Hence, it's not surprising that you keep coming up with the wrong answer. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 20 18:54:12 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (bprobst@netspace.net.au) Date: Wed Jul 20 18:54:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <380-22005742115412662@M2W063.mail2web.com> >Yes, Bruce is comfortable with the fact that there isn't one single rule >that explicitly gives an exception to leaders I don't know why Tate doesn't understand that A10.7 is giving him exactly the "specific exception" he's looking for; perhaps it's the fact that it doesn't use the words "specific exception" that's confusing him. Nevertheless, it IS that "one single rule" that he so desperately wishes existed. But if it makes you feel happier to keep denying it, Tate, please, don't let anyone stop you. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From swfancher at mindspring.com Wed Jul 20 19:28:09 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Wed Jul 20 19:28:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Friendly Fire proofers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050720222727.01d0feb0@mindspring.com> Hey Mattias, Willing and able to do what I can. Where do I sign up? Seth At 07:21 PM 7/20/2005, Mattias R?nnblom wrote: >Hi, > >we're looking for native english-speaking proofers for the last two >scenarios of the Friendly Fire 2005 pack (designed for the upcoming >Friendly Fire ASL tournament). Any help is appreciated. > >Regards, > Mattias > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From gr27134 at charter.net Wed Jul 20 20:35:03 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Wed Jul 20 20:35:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: <380-22005742115412662@M2W063.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I am not denying anything. I don't have to since one can't prove a negative. I don't have to prove that A10.7 isn't an exception to all of A8...you have to prove that it is an exception to A8, which BTW, you haven't done. Simply saying it is (which is all you have done) doesn't prove it is. In short: 1) There is no noted standard exception statement in A10.7 (i.e., "EXC: Leaders ignore the effects of fire markers while directing ROF SW") 2) The ASLRB standard exception usually includes a reference to the rule being excepted. There is no reference to any part of A8 to be found in A10.7. 3) The term "more than once" does not fit the standard for an exception and is actually only a modification for the preceding leadership limitation "may attempt only one action per phase" (IOW, "may attempt only one action per phase"...EXC:"more than once...to direct Multiple ROF"). Beyond that it has no meaning. BTW, a leader directing for FF, SFF, and FPF is "more than once". 4) A10.7 is listed in the "MORALE" section and is dealing with the general usage leadership DRM as opposed to specifically leader direction. Which is why the part about ROF looks more like an after thought than an intent. Notice that it just says "multiple ROF", not "multiple ROF SW's". Based on A10.7 one could claim a leader can direct anything with a "multiple ROF". 4) Just claiming it is an exception is not itself proof. For example I can claim that A10.7"A leadership rating is treated as a DRM when used to influence another Personnel unit's performance" is an exception to the limitation that a leader can only direct units occupying the same location. Now, using your method I won't offer any support or validation, I will simply claim it as such repeatedly and challenge you to prove the negative...which you can't. IOW, the burden of proof is on you and so far, you haven't made the grade. 5) Even if there wasn't an ASLRB standard for exceptions how do you leap from "more than once" to "exception to 90% of A8". It just don't wash! It is obvious that the designers didn't understand what that statement at the end of A7.531 really did...you can't actually treat leader direction as firing because it simply carries way to much baggage. Which is why no one actually treats leader direction as firing with only one exception...movement after preping. Hey...I am willing to go at this as long as you want, mate! Of course I fully expect to see your well thought out reply of "It is too an exception!". You know, you have been debating more and more like the "Pitman"...you been taking lessons? Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) > -----Original Message----- > From: bprobst@netspace.net.au [mailto:bprobst@netspace.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:54 PM > To: gr27134@charter.net; aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire > is treated as if he were firing.) > > > >Yes, Bruce is comfortable with the fact that there isn't one single rule > >that explicitly gives an exception to leaders > > I don't know why Tate doesn't understand that A10.7 is giving him exactly > the "specific exception" he's looking for; perhaps it's the fact that it > doesn't use the words "specific exception" that's confusing him. > Nevertheless, it IS that "one single rule" that he so desperately wishes > existed. > > But if it makes you feel happier to keep denying it, Tate, please, don't > let anyone stop you. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 21 02:06:57 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 21 02:07:14 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: References: <380-22005742115412662@M2W063.mail2web.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:35:03 -0500, "Tate Rogers" wrote: >I don't have to prove that A10.7 isn't an exception to all of A8 Of course you don't, because I've never claimed that A10.7 is "an exception to all of A8". What I've claimed is that A10.7 allows a leader to direct fire of a SW for so long as that SW is capable of firing. Why do I claim that? Well, gee, it's because that's exactly what A10.7 says. What you're asking is that I prove that the rule says what it says. Well, look in your rulebook and there it is. It's not witchcraft, and it's not some convoluted logic game. It's just a few simple lines of text. >1) There is no noted standard exception statement in A10.7 (i.e., "EXC: >Leaders ignore the effects of fire markers while directing ROF SW") That is not the *only* way the rules provide exceptions to other rules. The rules are overflowing with examples of rules that, *by virtue of the fact that they are written*, are an EXC to some other, more general, rule, and most of them don't use the term "exception" anywhere to justify themselves. For just one example: A4.5 gives units the ability to gain extra MF. It does not label itself as an "exception" to A4.11, nor does A4.11 make any reference to the existence of A4.5. Does this mean that we should therefore *dismiss* what A4.5 says about granting extra MF? Is A4.11 *lying* to us? No, it's just two rules that work hand-in-hand to yield a picture of how many MF a MMC has available to it. Similarly, A7.351 and A10.7 combine to yeld a picture of how many times a leader may direct the fire of a SW that he is directing. Answer: for as many times as the SW may fire. >2) The ASLRB standard exception usually includes a reference to the rule >being excepted. There is no reference to any part of A8 to be found in >A10.7. While that might be convenient, it's hardly a requirement, and again, many rules provide inherent exceptions to other rules *by virtue of their existence* without ever specifically cross-referencing those other rules. See above. >3) The term "more than once" does not fit the standard for an exception and >is actually only a modification for the preceding leadership limitation "may >attempt only one action per phase" (IOW, "may attempt only one action per >phase"...EXC:"more than once...to direct Multiple ROF"). Well, since you're asserting something that isn't true (that all rules that provide EXC must abide by a specific format), this point is pretty meaningless. I assert a simpler explanation: "more than once" means "more than once", with no hidden agendas. >BTW, a leader directing for FF, SFF, and FPF is "more than once". Indeed it is. What's your point? I see no restriction in A10.7 that states or even implies that it is NOT talking about *all* the ways in which a leader may direct fire "more than once". >4) A10.7 is listed in the "MORALE" section and is dealing with the general >usage leadership DRM as opposed to specifically leader direction. Which is >why the part about ROF looks more like an after thought than an intent. >Notice that it just says "multiple ROF", not "multiple ROF SW's". Based on >A10.7 one could claim a leader can direct anything with a "multiple ROF". That's why we have *other* rules that define what types of weapon a leader can, and can't, direct. Those other rules don't need to be shoehorned into A10.7; they have more logical places to be. By the way, since A10.7 is talking about *all* the things that leadership is used for, and *one* of the things that leadership is used for is to direct the fire of SW, arguing that this rule is actually talking about something else is disingenuous, to say the least. >4) Just claiming it is an exception is not itself proof. Well, yes it is, actually. The rule says what it means and means what it says. >5) Even if there wasn't an ASLRB standard for exceptions how do you leap >from "more than once" to "exception to 90% of A8". It just don't wash! Since, as stated above, I never made any such claim, this is pretty much a moot point. >Which is why no one actually treats leader direction as firing with only one >exception...movement after preping. Who is this "no-one" that you refer to? I, and everyone I play on any sort of regular basis, *do* treat leader direction as firing for *all* conceivable purposes in which it might be so treated, and have yet to experience *any* sort of game difficulties as a consequence. I keep hearing about all the examples "proving" that the rule causes terrible problems, and yet every such example so far presented is easily shown to be in error, and cause no problems in actual play whatsoever. Colour me unimpressed. >Hey...I am willing to go at this as long as you want, mate! I'm sure you are, which is why I'm no longer interested. I don't think it's possible to explain how these rules work in any clearer fashion than I have done. If it's not good enough for you, I really don't care any more. I'll let you have the last word. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Mike, if I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 21 05:52:39 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 21 05:52:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL 5.01 Goes Live! Message-ID: <42DF9A97.4090708@charter.net> From Rodney Kinney... VASL version 5.0.1 is now active. It updates the Chinese, Italian and Japanese OBs with the latest available Troll handiwork and adds the following counters: - StuMr Tiger w/ integral 'MA Fired' marker (from OVHS) - NSDAP Leaders/Heroes in the ge & ss SMC trays (from B:RV) - new 360-degree 'Roundhouse' Pillboxes (from GStK & ABtF) - modified Pillbox & PTObox ctrs for better stacking w/ Gun ctrs that share the same CA - modified Wound Prototype & all SMC ctrs that use it - instead of placing the Wound marker (& placing another marker when the ctr is unWounded), a semi-transparent 'Red Cross' Layer is applied to the ctr, that toggles on/off on ctrl-W. The Wound marker remains in the Unit Info tray but is no longer 'linked' to the SMC ctrs by the Place Marker trait. There are also: Russian Stormovik FB (from B:RV) British Typhoon FB (from FC) Enjoy! http://www.vasl.org/download.htm rk From keith.dalton at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 06:00:35 2005 From: keith.dalton at gmail.com (keith dalton) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:01:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook In-Reply-To: <42DEE96E.5010207@charter.net> References: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> <42DEE96E.5010207@charter.net> Message-ID: <4e2cf5e00507210600654a73f2@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone: You should have two pages at the end of the index with a listing of all know errata up to this point. They are formatted *exactly* like the index in two columns with the index header art at the top. Happy gaming! Keith On 7/20/05, Chas Argent wrote: > Whoops, I am wrong; there is a list of errata at the back of the index. > Sheesh... > > -Chas > > Chas Argent wrote: > > > You did misunderstand. > > > > The Chapter Dividers did have their errata corrected, however, so > > maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding... > > > > Regards, > > Chas > > > > joe willette wrote: > > > >> Just got the new rulebopok. Somehow I was under the inpression that a > >> comprehensive errata list would be included. DId I misunderstand? > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > >> Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Jul 21 06:09:46 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:09:49 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <4404qh$17i4794@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bruce Probst > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 04:06:57 CDT > To: > CC: > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) > > What you're asking is that I prove that the rule says what it says. Well, > look in your rulebook and there it is. It's not witchcraft, and it's not some > convoluted logic game. It's just a few simple lines of text. > Wow...I was actually just joking...but your whole argument does boil down to... "It is because I say it is!" The classic "Pitman" methodology: 1) Claim it is obvious. 2) State position as unassailable fact because, everyone knows it is. 3) Never, ever offer any proof to support opinion. BTW, I agree that a leader can direct a ROF SW as many times as said SW can fire...as long as all the effects of said leaders current fire status are applied per the A8 rules set. The term "more than once" does not releive the fire effects of being marked First/Final for units that are firing. There is no contradiction/conflict/exception in A10.7 that voids the application of the A8 rules for firing units (leaders directing fire are "firing units"). Again, you just saying it over and over doesn't make it so...you have to present something from A10.7 that specifically says a leader may ignore the rules for firing units (and fire markers) present in A8 _OR_ that creates a conflict with A8 such that A10.7 would invoke the "higher number rule" convention...there is nothing in A10.7 that does either. ...serve and volley, serve and volley... Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 21 06:14:09 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:16:43 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook errata In-Reply-To: <4e2cf5e00507210600654a73f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> <42DEE96E.5010207@charter.net> <4e2cf5e00507210600654a73f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081332.01c7f240@pop3.direcway.com> At 08:00 AM 7/21/2005, keith dalton wrote: >You should have two pages at the end of the index with a listing of >all know errata up to this point. Just Rulebook errata, right? Not scenario etc? For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 21 06:15:28 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:16:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> Listoids, Anyone get any errata for scenario J92? For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From jmmcleod at mts.net Thu Jul 21 06:18:38 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:18:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (about A7.531A Leader directing fire istreated as if he were firing.) References: <4404qh$17i4794@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <001401c58df6$b62386e0$3527c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Listerz, Tate wrote, > Wow...I was actually just joking...but your whole argument does boil down > to... > "It is because I say it is!" > > The classic "Pitman" methodology: > 1) Claim it is obvious. > 2) State position as unassailable fact because, everyone knows it is. > 3) Never, ever offer any proof to support opinion. Tate, now that is unfair. It is not right comparing Bruce P. to Mark. When it comes to ASL, Bruce knows what he is talking about. And while he may be cantankerous, (... and pot, say hello to Mr. kettle ... :) ), look at his plummage man! Absolutely spectacular this time of year! =Jim= From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 21 06:21:01 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:21:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <42DFA13D.3040305@charter.net> J92 YOUR TURN NOW Both sides amass VP per the hexes listed in SSR 3; if the Japanese do not earn the listed VP by clearing the set DC, then the Filipinos do. Filipino units do not Disrupt. Regards, Chas ron mosher wrote: > Listoids, > > Anyone get any errata for scenario J92? > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 21 06:24:04 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 21 06:24:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <42DFA1F4.1070001@charter.net> An unusual scenario... I played as the Japanese a few weeks back and TOTALLY wiped out the Cebu Island force...but still might have lost the scenario had I not been able to Clear the last (Turn 7) DC, which is worth 7VP. Bizarre...but interesting! Regards, Chas ron mosher wrote: > Listoids, > > Anyone get any errata for scenario J92? > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > From keith.dalton at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 08:08:28 2005 From: keith.dalton at gmail.com (keith dalton) Date: Thu Jul 21 08:09:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ASL rulebook errata In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081332.01c7f240@pop3.direcway.com> References: <42DEE452.2050502@charter.net> <42DEE96E.5010207@charter.net> <4e2cf5e00507210600654a73f2@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081332.01c7f240@pop3.direcway.com> Message-ID: <4e2cf5e00507210808b472630@mail.gmail.com> Correct. Rulebook errata. On 7/21/05, ron mosher wrote: > At 08:00 AM 7/21/2005, keith dalton wrote: > >You should have two pages at the end of the index with a listing of > >all know errata up to this point. > > Just Rulebook errata, right? Not scenario etc? > > > For the nonce, > ron > acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL > > From rjmosher at direcway.com Thu Jul 21 10:44:21 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Thu Jul 21 10:44:33 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata In-Reply-To: <42DFA13D.3040305@charter.net> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050721081422.01cc2f60@pop3.direcway.com> <42DFA13D.3040305@charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050721124254.01c1a7c8@pop3.direcway.com> At 08:21 AM 7/21/2005, Chas Argent wrote: >J92 YOUR TURN NOW > >Both sides amass VP per the hexes listed in SSR 3; if the Japanese do not >earn the listed VP by clearing the set DC, then the Filipinos do. Filipino >units do not Disrupt. Hi Chas, Seen this posted elsewhere..what's the source? MMP/designer/playtester? ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Jul 21 10:54:10 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Jul 21 10:54:14 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata Message-ID: <440397$fieavm@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> Ron- Perry posted it in the ASL folder at ConsimWorld; here't the link: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@138.40fBbtoGiWu.934805@.ee6b46b/15965 Regards, Chas > > From: ron mosher > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu PM 01:44:21 EDT > To: Chas Argent , ron mosher > CC: "aslml-aslml.net@lists" > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Speaking of errata > > At 08:21 AM 7/21/2005, Chas Argent wrote: > >J92 YOUR TURN NOW > > > >Both sides amass VP per the hexes listed in SSR 3; if the Japanese do not > >earn the listed VP by clearing the set DC, then the Filipinos do. Filipino > >units do not Disrupt. > > Hi Chas, > > Seen this posted elsewhere..what's the source? MMP/designer/playtester? > > > ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. > From daveolie at eastlink.ca Thu Jul 21 12:30:29 2005 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Thu Jul 21 13:00:27 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Speaking of errata References: <440397$fieavm@mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <019801c58e2e$6dba68a0$a64d8918@klis.com> Chas wrote: > > Perry posted it in the ASL folder at ConsimWorld; here't the link: > > http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@138.40fBbtoGiWu.934805@.ee6b46b/15965 I got it on a half-sheet of orange paper that was inserted in the Journal, entitled: "ASL Journal Issue #6 Errata" David "but no deodorant samples, darnit" Olie From dingodog_262 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 21 13:18:02 2005 From: dingodog_262 at hotmail.com (Jim Rupp) Date: Thu Jul 21 13:18:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: Aslml-aslml.net Digest, Vol 360, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <20050721190717.000491BA83@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: Hi Mattias, I'm up for proofing if you still need help. Thanks! Jim Rupp Boise, ID P.S. Is there any way to get this pack without going to the tourney? It's a little far for me to travel. . >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: 21 Jul 2005 01:21:22 +0200 >From: Mattias R?nnblom >Subject: [Aslml] Friendly Fire proofers >To: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Hi, > >we're looking for native english-speaking proofers for the last two >scenarios of the Friendly Fire 2005 pack (designed for the upcoming >Friendly Fire ASL tournament). Any help is appreciated. > >Regards, > Mattias From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Jul 21 14:02:51 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jul 21 14:02:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ATG Message-ID: <072120052102.9345.42E00D7A000D66CC0000248122007503300E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Hi, > According to C5.11 a ATG which maintains is ROF has a CA counter placed on > it for it's retained ROF shot. C5.64 restricts the ATG from changing CA to > another target if it has previously fired from within woods, buildings or > rubble and cannot change CA for further fire. I have some questions. >If the ATG is NOT in woods..etc. can it change CA if it retains ROF and fire on > another target (using conditional ROF of course)? Correct. >If it has no further targets, can if simply then change it's CA and NOT fire? Correct. >If it IS in woods..etc. can it also change is CA after firing if it retains ROF (of > course NO additionals shots are taken)? No. As you stated, by C5.64 once a Gun has fired from woods/building/rubble, it's CA is fixed. This is regardless of whether or not it retained ROF and whether or not it would fire after the hypothetical CA change. HtH, Dave Reenstra From partisan_8-0 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 21 16:52:21 2005 From: partisan_8-0 at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Thu Jul 21 16:52:16 2005 Subject: [Aslml] "Flames of War" Miniature Rules References: <20050721190716.A3C961BA81@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <000401c58e4f$3d509920$0300a8c0@Father> I am not referring to the recent flames of war on this list but am curious if any ASL players have test driven these rules with minatures. Please respond in private as this is a bit off topic. I am most impressed with the rule books, research, etc. that has gone into this system. Looks a lot like "Warhammer". "Zadra" From davidridley at idx.com.au Fri Jul 22 00:03:57 2005 From: davidridley at idx.com.au (david wilson) Date: Fri Jul 22 00:03:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo Message-ID: <42E09A5D.2020409@idx.com.au> I have a question regarding Landing craft. If it is immobilized by Damage points what happens, does it just sit there for the remainder of the 40 turn CG, can another LC come along side and transfer the PRC, I have no idea on this one. BTW the CG is a classic IMO, better than BR:T, that is nearly unplayable, a CG to far perhaps. From swfancher at mindspring.com Fri Jul 22 02:16:55 2005 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Fri Jul 22 02:17:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo In-Reply-To: <42E09A5D.2020409@idx.com.au> References: <42E09A5D.2020409@idx.com.au> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050722051447.01d0de40@mindspring.com> Can't answer your LC question presently, but... Just from curiosity, what makes you say that BR:T is "nearly unplayable"? I played it a few years ago - I will admit that the rules were relatively difficult to get a grasp on, as they came from a number of sections of the RB. But once you got them down, the game itself was a blast, IMO! What messed it up for you? Seth At 03:03 AM 7/22/2005, david wilson wrote: >I have a question regarding Landing craft. If it is immobilized by >Damage points what happens, does it just sit there for the remainder >of the 40 turn CG, can another LC come along side and transfer the >PRC, I have no idea on this one. >BTW the CG is a classic IMO, better than BR:T, that is nearly >unplayable, a CG to far perhaps. > > >_______________________________________________ >Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From davidridley at idx.com.au Fri Jul 22 02:36:09 2005 From: davidridley at idx.com.au (david wilson) Date: Fri Jul 22 02:36:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050722051447.01d0de40@mindspring.com> References: <42E09A5D.2020409@idx.com.au> <6.2.3.4.2.20050722051447.01d0de40@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <42E0BE09.8000109@idx.com.au> Hi Seth, probably just the size of it and the enormous counter clutter, I'm playing GT via vasl which makes life a lot easier. It's not making the life of my boat crews any easier though!! Seth W Fancher wrote: > Can't answer your LC question presently, but... > > Just from curiosity, what makes you say that BR:T is "nearly > unplayable"? I played it a few years ago - I will admit that the > rules were relatively difficult to get a grasp on, as they came from a > number of sections of the RB. But once you got them down, the game > itself was a blast, IMO! What messed it up for you? > > Seth > > At 03:03 AM 7/22/2005, david wilson wrote: > >> I have a question regarding Landing craft. If it is immobilized by >> Damage points what happens, does it just sit there for the remainder >> of the 40 turn CG, can another LC come along side and transfer the >> PRC, I have no idea on this one. >> BTW the CG is a classic IMO, better than BR:T, that is nearly >> unplayable, a CG to far perhaps. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >> Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > > > > > From gr27134 at charter.net Fri Jul 22 05:37:23 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Fri Jul 22 05:37:27 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo Message-ID: <48vift$12cs4c6@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Seth W Fancher > Date: 2005/07/22 Fri AM 04:16:55 CDT > To: david wilson , > asl mmp mailing list > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo > > Can't answer your LC question presently, but... > > Just from curiosity, what makes you say that BR:T is "nearly > unplayable"? I played it a few years ago - I will admit that the > rules were relatively difficult to get a grasp on, as they came from > a number of sections of the RB. But once you got them down, the game > itself was a blast, IMO! What messed it up for you? I own a copy of the original TPP copy (back when I was a collector). The problem (for me) with BR:T is the size. It is just beyond the scope of ASL. I never purchased the MMP version becuase I knew that I would play it, at most, just once. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From gr27134 at charter.net Fri Jul 22 05:56:35 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Fri Jul 22 05:56:40 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo Message-ID: <48vje6$16kf0h3@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: david wilson > Date: 2005/07/22 Fri AM 02:03:57 CDT > To: asl mmp mailing list > Subject: [Aslml] Gavutu Tanabogo > > I have a question regarding Landing craft. If it is immobilized by > Damage points what happens, does it just sit there for the remainder of > the 40 turn CG, can another LC come along side and transfer the PRC, I > have no idea on this one. Other than drifting (only in heavy surf or on a river)...not much. Becoming immobilized in deep water is almost as good as a kill. Immobilized in shallow would allow the infantry to still unload (NA for vehicular passengers). I suppose the infantry could try and swim from an LC in deep water...which converts them to unarmed units, so not a lot of good there. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From robertthepastor at juno.com Sun Jul 24 23:19:02 2005 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Sun Jul 24 23:20:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Whose FBE is it? Message-ID: <20050724.231903.3020.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, The Germans set up on the north board. The Russians enter from the south board. (Thus, this makes the north edge a German FBE.) Later, Russians appear from the north edge. The next Turn, Germans appear *also* from the north edge. QUESTION #1: Do the Russians appearing from the north cancel the north edge as a German FBE? QUESTION #2: When the Russians do appear from the north edge, does this make the north edge a Russian FBE? QUESTION #3: When the Germans appear on the next Turn from the north edge, does this make (remake?) the north edge as a German FBE? I ask this because of an attempt to exit a Guard with prisoners. (BTW, this came up after my mother's funeral, while dinning with family and friends. Two friends kindly attempted to diminish my anguish with light talk and ASL came up --- and not by me! And no, I didn't mind the little bit of talk about ASL.) Take care, Robert "Always trying to guide others to my FBE" Hammond From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 25 00:46:11 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Mon Jul 25 00:48:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <23553c3b7df.42e4b4e3@broadpark.no> Hi, Bruce P wrote: > It's true that A7.51 says "no firegroups". It's also true that > A7.351 says that leaders may direct the fire of SW ordnance. > Both of these things are simultaneously true. Except that *you* argue that a leader directing fire is part of a FG... > Even though the leader *normally* forms a FG > whendirecting fire, he doesn't in the case of SW ordnance; > nevertheless, he's allowed to direct that fire. > Interesting that you totally skip any rule argument here. Could it be because the rules says something different than you? A7.5 says: "Two or more units/weapons joining together to make a combined fire attack are a FG.". So *if* the leader is making a fire attack when directing, it has to be as a FG - even if the weapon he is directing is an ordnance. That's what A7.5 says. And A7.51 says that ordnance cannot participate in a FG. *YOU* say that Perry speaks nonsense, and that a leader who directs is making a fire attack - WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION - but suddenly you're starting to make exceptions for the instances where your interpretation doesn't make sense. But let's not stop here. Let's look at some other consequences of your interpretation, aside from the one Tate argues for: Consider a crew manning an MMG and a Hero in a Location.During the enemy MPh. The following steps are then performed: 1) Enemy unit with DC moves ADJACENT for 2 MF. 2) MMG and Hero First Fires, and MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with First Fire. 3) MMG First Fires and Hero SFF. MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with Final Fire. 4) Enemy unit places DC for 2 MF. 5) MMG First Fires and Hero uses FPF. DR of 10+ wounds Hero. We all agree to this (I believe). But now change the Hero for a 9-1 leader who directs the MMG. According to Bruce P., the leader is making a Fire Attack when directing. And we all know (according to A8.3 and A8.31) that a unit who DFF three times (w/o ROF) must do it as FPF the third time. So according to Bruce's interpretation, the next time you direct a high-ROF MG during DFF - remember to treat the 3rd. attack as a Morale check on the leader. I will happily play as Perry sez though - without Bruce's contradictions and weird results. A less stubborn person would now probably say something like "It may be that my interpretation is not correct after all - at least I see that the other interpretation makes sense". It'll be interesting to see Bruce's reply though ;-) From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Jul 25 02:44:33 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Jul 25 02:44:45 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: <23553c3b7df.42e4b4e3@broadpark.no> References: <23553c3b7df.42e4b4e3@broadpark.no> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:46:11 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >Interesting that you totally skip any rule argument here. Could it be because the rules says something different than you? No, it's because you totally skipped the rules I quoted, and then claimed that I made no argument. If you don't want to read my messages then don't read them; there's no need to embarrass yourself by just making stuff up. >*YOU* say that Perry speaks nonsense, and that a leader who directs is making a fire attack - WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION Interesting, please quote where I said "without any exception", especially given that my last post (the one you replied to, remember?) specifically cited SW ordnance fire *as an exception*, as plainly stated in the rules (that I never, ever quote). Gosh, how do I play this game again? > but suddenly you're starting to make exceptions for the instances where your interpretation doesn't make sense. No, I'm making exceptions where the rules state them. I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense to you. >But let's not stop here. Let's look at some other consequences of your interpretation, aside from the one Tate argues for: Good, something useful at last .... >Consider a crew manning an MMG and a Hero in a Location.During the enemy MPh. The following steps are then performed: > >1) Enemy unit with DC moves ADJACENT for 2 MF. >2) MMG and Hero First Fires, and MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with First Fire. >3) MMG First Fires and Hero SFF. MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with Final Fire. >4) Enemy unit places DC for 2 MF. >5) MMG First Fires and Hero uses FPF. DR of 10+ wounds Hero. > >We all agree to this (I believe). Yes, seems OK to me. >But now change the Hero for a 9-1 leader who directs the MMG. According to Bruce P., the leader is making a Fire Attack when directing. And we all know (according to A8.3 and A8.31) that a unit who DFF three times (w/o ROF) must do it as FPF the third time. Oh. I retract the "something useful" comment. All you're doing is recycling Tate's argument that I already demonstrated (and demonstrated, and demonstrated ...) to be false ... not that Tate was listening, either. A10.7. Look it up. (After all, I never, ever quote rules.) So, what you've stated above is not *my* interpretation, and I strenuously deny any part of it. It's yet another example of how confused you remain about this entire topic if you believe that I *ever* advocated the above rules interpretation. (If it helps, at all: if it wasn't for A10.7, I would agree with Tate that the above would be the only way to legally play, and therefore I would agree that the whole "leader direction == leader firing" premise needs rethinking -- or deleting. Even so, the Perry Sez -- in the absence of errata -- would *still* be wrong. But since we *do* have A10.7, it's simply a non-issue.) >A less stubborn person would now probably say something like "It may be that my interpretation is not correct after all - at least I see that the other interpretation makes sense". It'll be interesting to see Bruce's reply though ;-) Since you're arguing from some point of weird fantasy, where what I *actually* say doesn't count for anything, frankly I couldn't give a shit any more what you believe. It's obvious that you're simply not paying attention to any point that I raise. I expect that kind of fingers-in-the-ears attitude from Tate -- heaven knows he's made an art form of it -- but it's shameful to see you practicing it also. I work from the rules, as printed, and my ability to understand and interpret them -- for whatever that's worth, which some people might think is "very little" but personally I'm pretty comfortable with it, thanks all the same. If that means that occasionally I disagree with other "noted experts" -- Perry, you, whoever -- then I disagree. I'll state my reasons for the disagreement as clearly as I'm able. That's all there is to it. Why other people feel the need to invent stuff just so they can "prove" me wrong is beyond me. Unless someone has something *new* to add, I'm done with this thread. Like Tate before you, you can have the last word if you want it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Jul 25 03:05:06 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Jul 25 03:05:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Whose FBE is it? In-Reply-To: <20050724.231903.3020.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20050724.231903.3020.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:19:02 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >The Germans set up on the north board. The Russians enter from the south >board. (Thus, this makes the north edge a German FBE.) Later, Russians >appear from the north edge. The next Turn, Germans appear *also* from >the north edge. A20.53 "Unless defined otherwise by SSR, a Friendly Board Edge is one from which that side's forces entered the game. If a side's forces set up on board and have received no reinforcements, its Friendly Board Edge is any side it was allowed to set up in front of with no enemy units between its forces and that board edge and through which no enemy units have entered." So, actually, the German FBE is the north edge, *and* the eastern and western edges. (Note that the "board" is the entire playing surface, not just the individual map sections -- A2.1.) >QUESTION #1: Do the Russians appearing from the north cancel the north >edge as a German FBE? Yes, but only after they have so appeared. >QUESTION #2: When the Russians do appear from the north edge, does this >make the north edge a Russian FBE? Yes. >QUESTION #3: When the Germans appear on the next Turn from the north >edge, does this make (remake?) the north edge as a German FBE? It actually makes the north edge a FBE for *both* sides, since they have both entered forces on that side. >I ask this because of an attempt to exit a Guard with prisoners. Regardless of what has or has not yet happened on the north edge, the Germans can still exit prisoners via either east or west edge. The Russians never enter from those edges. And, incidentally, for once the Index definition is, um, wrong, in that it implies that it's the A20.53 definition, when actually it's the Chapter S definition. The west edge is *not* the "default" FBE for all non-SASL scenarios! (And the Index definition doesn't even reference Chapter S!) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 25 03:23:37 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Mon Jul 25 03:25:25 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <27f479cb416c.42e4d9c9@broadpark.no> Hi, Bruce and me still disagree (that sort of rhymed :-) I wrote: > >Interesting that you totally skip any rule argument here. Could > >it be because the rules says something different than you? > and Bruce replied: > No, it's because you totally skipped the rules I quoted, and then > claimed that I made no argument. If you don't want to read my > messages then don't read them; there's no need to embarrass > yourself by just making stuff up. > I can repeat your argument again: > Even though the leader *normally* forms a FG > whendirecting fire, he doesn't in the case of SW ordnance; > nevertheless, he's allowed to direct that fire. I still see no rules quoted. Now I'm sure you've quoted some rules in previous posts, but none that is excepting a leader from making a fire attack when directing ordnance only. And you argue this, without any rule references. > >*YOU* say that Perry speaks nonsense, and that a leader who > directs is making a fire attack - WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION > > Interesting, please quote where I said "without any exception", I'm sorry that I misremembered what you wrote. You wrote "a leader that is treated as firing is, well, treated as firing. For *any* purpose, unless specific exceptions are made." So I'll therefore instead ask where the "specific exception" is made, saying that a leader directing ordnance is *not* treated as firing? > especiallygiven that my last post (the one you replied to, > remember?) specifically cited > SW ordnance fire *as an exception*, as plainly stated in the rules > (that I never, ever quote). So suddenly, all rules that contradict your interpretation is "specific exception". Now that's creative use of the rules - I'll give you that :-) > >But let's not stop here. Let's look at some other consequences of > your interpretation, aside from the one Tate argues for: > > Good, something useful at last .... > > >Consider a crew manning an MMG and a Hero in a Location.During > the enemy MPh. The following steps are then performed: > > > >1) Enemy unit with DC moves ADJACENT for 2 MF. > >2) MMG and Hero First Fires, and MMG maintains ROF. Hero is > marked with First Fire. > >3) MMG First Fires and Hero SFF. MMG maintains ROF. Hero is > marked with Final Fire. > >4) Enemy unit places DC for 2 MF. > >5) MMG First Fires and Hero uses FPF. DR of 10+ wounds Hero. > > > >We all agree to this (I believe). > > Yes, seems OK to me. > > >But now change the Hero for a 9-1 leader who directs the MMG. > According to Bruce P., the leader is making a Fire Attack when > directing. And we all know (according to A8.3 and A8.31) that a > unit who DFF three times (w/o ROF) must do it as FPF the third time. > No, you > A10.7. Look it up. (After all, I never, ever quote rules.) > Note that I've not argued (as Tate) that the leader cannot direct the attack. I only argue that A8.3 and A8.31 applies to any non-ROF DFF. Are you saying that the following from A10.7: "A leader may attempt only one action per phase, and may use his leadership modifier (even if 0 or +1) more than once in the same phase only to attempt to rally more than one unit in a RPh, to direct Multiple ROF" is a "specific exception" that says that the leader is not firing for the purposes of being marked by First/Final Fire and being subject to FPF? I'm amazed by the "specific exception" you find in the rules. > So, what you've stated above is not *my* interpretation, and I > strenuouslydeny any part of it. It's yet another example of how > confused you remain > about this entire topic if you believe that I *ever* advocated the > above rules interpretation. > Yes, I admit that I get more than a bit confused by you. On one hand you write that a leader that directs fire is considered firing for *any* purpose unless there is a "specific exception". And then you expect me to know that A8.3 and A8.31 doesn't apply *at all* - even though there is no exception, specific or not, and also that A7.5 doesn't apply - not because there is an exception, but because that would contradict A7.51. Yes, I'm getting confused by such "arguments". From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 25 03:33:10 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Mon Jul 25 03:34:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Whose FBE is it? Message-ID: <28415c094a61.42e4dc06@broadpark.no> Hi, I agree with most of Bruce's answer. I think he erred (probably only overlooked it) at the end though: > Regardless of what has or has not yet happened on the north edge, > the Germans can still exit prisoners via either east or west edge. The > Russians never enter from those edges. > This is incorrect. As soon as the German got reinforcements from the north edge, the east and west edges stopped being German FBEs. It is the second sentence of A20.53 which makes the east and west edges FBE at the start of the game, but that sentence applies only as long that side has received no reinforcements. So after Russians have entered from North and South, and Germans from North, the first sentence (only) applies: "a Friendly Board Edge is one from which that side's forces entered the game. " So now, the north edge is both Russian and German FBE and the south edge a Russian FBE while east and west edges are friendly to none. From gr27134 at charter.net Mon Jul 25 05:47:29 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Mon Jul 25 05:47:46 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) Message-ID: <48rlb4$fvm3l3@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> > From: Bruce Probst > Date: 2005/07/25 Mon AM 04:44:33 CDT > To: Ole B?e > CC: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated > as if he were firing.) > > > >But let's not stop here. Let's look at some other consequences of your interpretation, aside from the one Tate argues for: > > Good, something useful at last .... > > >Consider a crew manning an MMG and a Hero in a Location.During the enemy MPh. The following steps are then performed: > > > >1) Enemy unit with DC moves ADJACENT for 2 MF. > >2) MMG and Hero First Fires, and MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with First Fire. > >3) MMG First Fires and Hero SFF. MMG maintains ROF. Hero is marked with Final Fire. > >4) Enemy unit places DC for 2 MF. > >5) MMG First Fires and Hero uses FPF. DR of 10+ wounds Hero. > > > >We all agree to this (I believe). > > Yes, seems OK to me. > > >But now change the Hero for a 9-1 leader who directs the MMG. According to Bruce P., the leader is making a Fire Attack when directing. And we all know (according to A8.3 and A8.31) that a unit who DFF three times (w/o ROF) must do it as FPF the third time. > > Oh. I retract the "something useful" comment. All you're doing is recycling > Tate's argument that I already demonstrated (and demonstrated, and > demonstrated ...) to be false ... not that Tate was listening, either. > You never "demonstrated" anything. You simple continue to put forward the notion that A10.7 is an exception to A8 and A8.31 even though these rules a never referenced nor is there any conflict. Your whole premise is founded upon the statement "more than once" being taken as a specific exception to A8 & A8.31. Even though it fits not one of the ASLRB conventions for doing so. You so me one single other instance of such an all encompassing none specific exception anywhere else in the ASLRB which neither references the rules being excepted and/or is not in conflict with the rules being excepted. > A10.7. Look it up. (After all, I never, ever quote rules.) > I have read it over and over...there is no exception nor conflict between A8 and A10.7. A leader can direct "more than once" and fulfill the requirements of A8 without any conflict what-so-ever. Simply repeating A10.7, A10.7, A10.7...over and over is not a demonstration. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From oleboe at broadpark.no Mon Jul 25 15:25:20 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Mon Jul 25 15:25:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: <48rlb4$fvm3l3@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Hi, Tate wrote: > I have read it over and over...there is no exception nor conflict > between A8 and A10.7. A leader can direct "more than once" and > fulfill the requirements of A8 without any conflict what-so-ever. > I agree with Tate that *IF* the leader is considered making a fire attack, then A10.7 is no blanket statement that allows such a leader to ignore A8. Bruce seems to think that "more than once" is to be understood as "...even when it would not be allowed to fire per A8". But even if Bruce is right about this (which I don't think), he is still stuck with A8 explicitely stating: A8.1 "The DEFENDER must place "First Fire" counters above all units/weapons that have fired and exhausted their ROF" A8.3 "A DEFENDING Infantry unit already marked with a First Fire counter may Defensive First Fire again during that MPh as Area Fire by flipping its First Fire counter over to the Final Fire side." A8.31 "FPF is a Subsequent First Fire option available only to DEFENDING Infantry already marked with a Final Fire counter..." So how he can extract from A10.7's "more than once" that such a leader is excempt from the above is beyond me. > Simply repeating A10.7, A10.7, A10.7...over and over is not a > demonstration. > I think Bruce knows that he has no explicit rules to back him up, so he instead uses 20% of his post on such vague arguments and the remaining 80% to bitch about not being understood, before concluding that since we don't understand him he will not debate anymore. Easier than to admit that he doesn't have any explicit rule references to back him up ;-) --------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body, or me and my head? Ole Boe From gr27134 at charter.net Mon Jul 25 20:32:58 2005 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Mon Jul 25 20:34:18 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire is treated as if he were firing.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ole B?e [mailto:oleboe@broadpark.no] > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:25 PM > To: Tate Rogers; bprobst@netspace.net.au > Cc: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > Subject: RE: Re: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire > is treated as if he were firing.) > > > Hi, Tate wrote: > > > I have read it over and over...there is no exception nor conflict > > between A8 and A10.7. A leader can direct "more than once" and > > fulfill the requirements of A8 without any conflict what-so-ever. > > > I agree with Tate that *IF* the leader is considered making a fire attack, > then A10.7 is no blanket statement that allows such a leader to ignore A8. > > Bruce seems to think that "more than once" is to be understood as "...even > when it would not be allowed to fire per A8". But even if Bruce is right > about this (which I don't think), he is still stuck with A8 explicitely > stating: > > A8.1 "The DEFENDER must place "First Fire" counters above all > units/weapons > that have fired and exhausted their ROF" > > A8.3 "A DEFENDING Infantry unit already marked with a First Fire > counter may > Defensive First Fire again during that MPh as Area Fire by flipping its > First Fire counter over to the Final Fire side." > > A8.31 "FPF is a Subsequent First Fire option available only to DEFENDING > Infantry already marked with a Final Fire counter..." > > So how he can extract from A10.7's "more than once" that such a leader is > excempt from the above is beyond me. EXACTLY! My whole point has never been that we should play leader direction as firing...becuase we can't, it simply isn't possible and still play ASL the way 99% of us have come to understand how to play. However, we have a rule that says we are to treat leader direction as firing _AND_ even more importantly, there is not one single exception listed any where to this rule. IOW, we have a very clear rule telling us to do something that _No One_ is doing. A "Perry Sez" that says, "no, this is how it is to be played" without any rules reference or errata in the face of such a clear, direct, and unrestricted rule is simply not good enough. The statement in A7.351 needs errata or should be deleted. > > Simply repeating A10.7, A10.7, A10.7...over and over is not a > > demonstration. > > > I think Bruce knows that he has no explicit rules to back him up, so he > instead uses 20% of his post on such vague arguments and the remaining 80% > to bitch about not being understood, before concluding that since we don't > understand him he will not debate anymore. Easier than to admit that he > doesn't have any explicit rule references to back him up ;-) Yep...that would be our beloved Bruce... Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Jul 25 21:55:49 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Jul 25 21:56:04 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Whose FBE is it? In-Reply-To: <28415c094a61.42e4dc06@broadpark.no> References: <28415c094a61.42e4dc06@broadpark.no> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:33:10 +0200, Ole B?e wrote: >This is incorrect. As soon as the German got reinforcements from the north edge, the east and west edges stopped being German FBEs. It is the second sentence of A20.53 which makes the east and west edges FBE at the start of the game, but that sentence applies only as long that side has received no reinforcements. Yes, I agree. My mistake. >So now, the north edge is both Russian and German FBE and the south edge a Russian FBE while east and west edges are friendly to none. Right. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From jmmcleod at mts.net Mon Jul 25 22:32:24 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Mon Jul 25 22:32:26 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Perry sez: (aboutA7.531A Leader directing fire istreated as if he were firing.) References: Message-ID: <001101c591a3$68514320$8227c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Dudes, Here we have three ASLML personalities, second to none, united in the love of the Game having a bit of a tear at each other over a rule that we all have been playing the same way since god (that would be Mac) invented the Pin Task Check. Dial down the retoric. We are agreed that there is the way the rule is to be played and we are agreed that the rule as written is not intotal agreement with the rule as played. It should be fixed/clarified. Bottom line; the "rule as written" should read as "the rule as played". Now, where is that bloody Armies Of Oblivion!!! =Jim= From danielzucker at comcast.net Tue Jul 26 16:15:08 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Tue Jul 26 16:15:24 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages Message-ID: <000501c59237$e3585240$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> I seem to be missing form section Z pages Z21 to Z38. Where those pages included with a Historical Study or Journal? and which one? Daniel From david at stanaway.net Tue Jul 26 16:49:40 2005 From: david at stanaway.net (David Stanaway) Date: Tue Jul 26 16:49:43 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages In-Reply-To: <000501c59237$e3585240$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> References: <000501c59237$e3585240$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> Message-ID: <1122421780.5908.19.camel@david.dialmex.net> Isn't that Primosole Bridge (Journal 6) or Operation Veritable Historical Study (OVHS) ? No rule book handy. On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 19:15 -0400, daniel zucker wrote: > I seem to be missing form section Z pages Z21 to Z38. Where those pages > included with a Historical Study or Journal? and which one? > > Daniel > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net > -- David Stanaway From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 16:51:47 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 16:51:48 2005 Subject: [Aslml] A74 'Valhalla Bound' SSRs In-Reply-To: <000601c58429$19fe02d0$6401a8c0@screamin> References: <000601c58429$19fe02d0$6401a8c0@screamin> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 20:54:10 -0500, "Jeff Ital" wrote: >Getting ready to play 'Valhalla Bound'. > >SSR 1 says to ignore the vehicular movement penalties for ground snow. OK, >cool. > >SSR 3 says that he 'road movement bonus' is only available on the >4Q1-4FF5-11I5-11P8 Road, which is paved. > >Based on the above SSRs, would a CE vehicle be able to travel down any of >the other roads at 1/2 MP? The 1/2 MP cost for a CE vehicle on a road is not >a 'bonus', is it? Also, what about trucks; 1/2 MP on non-paved roads? I just >want to be clear so I don't gak my setup. > >I take SSR 3 to just apply to infantry, but just want to be doubly sure. Somewhat late (I'm catching up on old mail), but since no-one else seems to have replied: I agree. "Vehicular" is even italicised in SSR 1, which makes it pretty clear that the intent is that vehicles suffer no movement penalties from the snow at all, so yes, CE AFV and trucks can move down the roads at the normal road rate (1/2 MP). SSR 3 is poorly worded, since there isn't a "road movement bonus" defined as such in the rules (the closest we get is "a MF bonus of one can be earned for road movement" buried in the middle of A4.11, but the actual rule is B3.4 which does not describe itself as a "road movement bonus"), but given that SSR 1 has already addressed vehicular movement, it seems logical to conclude that the B3.4 bonus MF is what is being referred to. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From david at stanaway.net Tue Jul 26 16:56:08 2005 From: david at stanaway.net (David Stanaway) Date: Tue Jul 26 16:56:27 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages In-Reply-To: <1122421780.5908.19.camel@david.dialmex.net> References: <000501c59237$e3585240$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> <1122421780.5908.19.camel@david.dialmex.net> Message-ID: <1122422168.5908.23.camel@david.dialmex.net> It is in fact OVHS. On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 18:49 -0500, David Stanaway wrote: > Isn't that Primosole Bridge (Journal 6) or Operation Veritable > Historical Study (OVHS) ? > > No rule book handy. > > On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 19:15 -0400, daniel zucker wrote: > > I seem to be missing form section Z pages Z21 to Z38. Where those pages > > included with a Historical Study or Journal? and which one? -- David Stanaway From dreenstra at comcast.net Tue Jul 26 16:58:14 2005 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (dreenstra@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jul 26 16:58:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages Message-ID: <072620052358.19483.42E6CE160002E84400004C1B22058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> I believe those were in OVHS. Z1 and 2 were from KR, included with Journal #3, then came OWT, then OVHS, now PBr. Dave Reenstra > I seem to be missing form section Z pages Z21 to Z38. Where those pages > included with a Historical Study or Journal? and which one? > > Daniel > > > _______________________________________________ > Aslml-aslml.net mailing list > Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 17:17:29 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 17:17:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38jde15soslq4f37gbe6sbl5r7huc5o50i@4ax.com> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:24:13 -0700, "Scott Jackson" wrote: >Assuming the bridge is at ground level, then no. >1/2 level above it's own elevation, per old Q&A: > >B6.2 How is a non-pontoon Bridge counter treated for LOS purposes? >A. As per B6.2, but each such counter is also Inherent Terrain (B.6) [EXC: a >LOS into/through its hex does not incur the bridge Hindrance/TEM if it >crosses only the road hexside(s) (exclusive of vertices) of that hex]. In >addition, all non-pontoon Bridge counters and printed bridges are >one-and-a-half level LOS Hindrances rising from one level < that of the >bridge Location [EXC: no bridge Hinders LOS drawn either along the bridge's >road depiction or from and to Location that are lower than the bridge's >Location; no LOS exists from a bridge Location to any other Location beneath >that bridge, even if that bridge is multi-hex in length]. [An92; An95w; >An96; Mw] Scott, I think we have to assume that the "one-and-a-half-level hindrance" part of this Q&A has been rescinded by the 2nd ed. rules. The first part of the Q&A has been incorporated into B6.2 but the "one-and-a-half-level" stuff in the second part is nowhere to be seen. (Of course I'm not sure what the original Q&A even thought was meant by a "1/2-level hindrance". How does that differ from a hindrance that only affects same-level LOS? No other hindrances that I can think of are described in terms of being "1/2-level", e.g., wreck hindrances affect only same-level LOS.) The part about the bridge being a hindrance to *lower* level LOS is still *partially* there in B6.2, although IMO the language is convoluted. The Q&A indicates that any LOS passing completely beneath the bridge would be affected by the hindrance, but the current B6.2 wording says that there's only a hindrance if one end of the LOS is lower than the level of the bridge. I sent the following to Perry a few years back: *** >B6.2 > I'm having trouble parsing the third sentence of this rule > ("However, ... Bridge).") -- is it correct as printed? (It looks > like something has gone missing after the first "or".) Yes. (No.) [OK. Perry and I almost got into a virtual fist-fight over this one. It is my contention that the sentence as indicated above is (a) grammatically nonsensical (the subject of the sentence changes halfway through) and (b) confusing and perhaps misleading. Perry concedes that the current wording is not terrific but is acceptable as it is, something which I strongly disagree with. For the record, my suggested rewording for the sentence is: "However, a non-pontoon bridge does Hinder any LOS drawn through it between units at the same elevation as the Bridge (unless that LOS is traced only through the road depiction of the Bridge), or one end (only) of the LOS is below the level of the Bridge." Perry agreed that the above is certainly what the rule is intending to say. Make your own call on this one, folks.] *** Looking back on it I'm not sure that I'm as fond of my suggested rewording as I was at the time, but I still like it more than I like the printed wording. Any way, however you slice it, that whole "one-and-a-half-level hindrance" part seems to have been deliberately exorcised in the 2nd ed. rules. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 17:51:15 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 17:51:32 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control In-Reply-To: <20050713155759.98549.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050712193023.01d0c2b0@mindspring.com> <20050713155759.98549.qmail@web52615.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Nelson wrote: >thought I'd throw in a couple rules questions while >you're all now finally reading the aslml... Tossing in my 2c on an old post ... >a) Is D5.33 the only rule discussing WHEN exactly one >goes CE or BU? I ask this because I vaguely recall a >rule that said one 'combines' changing this status >with an MP during the MPh. But that is not stated >here. My opponent's Panther has just begun its MPh CE. >As his very first action, he wants to BU. Then start >for one and roll away. My infantry want to shoot at >his CE...am I allowed? There's an old, convoluted Perry Sez that Wayne Hadady posted a few years back which essentially asked the opposite of what you're asking (i.e., if a BU AFV becomes CE, is that in itself eligible to trigger Defensive First Fire?). To summarise the answer, it was "it depends" -- basically, it was a matter of the MP that the vehicle had expended, since DFF occurs *only* in response to expended MP, not any other action. (EXC: the C5.33 DEFENDER-initiated Gun Duel.) Basically my conclusion is that since you're not eligible for C5.33 (the Panther is not declaring any pre-movement fire, so you have nothing to declare a Gun Duel against) you have to wait until after that first MP is expended, by which time the vehicle is safely BU. If your opponent had done it the other way around -- i.e., he had declared the Start MP, and then declared that he was BU -- you might have an argument. (And I'm not sure who should win that argument.) But as it is, your opponent did everything "correctly" and you're out of luck. >b) Perry has STILL not answered my rather fundamental >question about control in Pegasus Bridge, and neither >the list nor the forums seemed interested in trying to >help...so I'll try again. In the last RtPh of Day One, >a broken British hs routs to a German controlled >foxhole. RePh: broken mmc are rallied, then setup >areas are drawn. Control rules state that control is >only gained 'during play'. RePh rules state both that >the RePh begins 'after' the end of the scenario, yet >states that the first three steps of the RePh bring >about 'scenario end'. Alas, does the suddenly rallied >hs gain control of the foxhole during the RePh? When you say "Control rules state that control is only gained 'during play'", you're referring to A26.1, right? That's all very well, but that statement in A26.1 (the actual phrase used is "during the game") should not, I think, be ruthlessly interpreted as meaning "only during actual play of the scenario" when being used in reference to CG. After all, the RePh in a CG is not "during the scenario" but it's still part of "the game" being played. There can be different consequences for gaining control during the scenario and during the RePh, depending on the CG. For example, if the *scenario* VC require control of a location, then gaining control of that location after the scenario has ended doesn't allow you to retroactively claim victory. If control of the location has other functions beyond that scenario, though -- e.g., if it counts towards *campaign* VC, or if it helps establish a perimeter -- then you get the appropriate benefits thereof because you satisfy the conditions of "gaining control" (you were the last to occupy the location with a Good Order MMC). So in your example above, that foxhole is now controlled by the British HS and if that affects setup areas for the next scenario, so be it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 18:00:59 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 18:00:50 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RB Refit Phase question In-Reply-To: <005b01c58967$3e6c9f30$6401a8c0@workstation1> References: <005b01c58967$3e6c9f30$6401a8c0@workstation1> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:01:31 -0400, "James S. White Jr." wrote: >According to O11.602(g), "All still hidden/Cloaked units and Equipment are >placed on-map concealed in their setup Location [EXC: hidden Set DC (11.621) >may remain Hidden until step 11.6073]. Still-hidden Fortifications need not >be revealed at this time;". What happens if there is a Hidden Gun in an >upper-level building Location? You apply the rule, as quoted, and place the Gun on-map (concealed). >I ask because if I were to reveal the >gun...then obviously this reveals there is a Fortified Location there (which >I don't have to reveal at this time). What takes precedence within this >rule? The rule, as quoted. There is a difference between *revealing* the Fortification and making your opponent *deduce* that there is a Fortification there (and in all levels below it). >It's not that big a deal...but if you pay the FPP cost to get a gun in an >upper-level...and the gun does not fire during the current CG-Day...why >should a player lose the advantage of that position by being forced to >reveal it? Because the rules say so. If you're asking "but why do the rules say that?", then I suggest that you read Footnote 19. Note that it contains a House Rule that you and your opponent might choose to apply in your game. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 18:43:50 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 18:43:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] P2 slope hexside question In-Reply-To: <002e01c58b94$f4e50e80$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> References: <002e01c58b94$f4e50e80$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> Message-ID: Didn't see any replies, so .... On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:30:46 -0400, "daniel zucker" wrote: >I'm playing BtB5 with the big hill overlay and I'm having the devil of a >time trying to understand this rule and the whole hillside bocage thing >also. > >The slope rule says that a unit Up-slope can trace LOS over obstacles >'...........whose top most obstacle/Hindrance height is < the up-slope >elevation of the viewing unit.....' > >Does this mean that if a viewing unit is on a level 2 hill and Up-slope (at >level 2 & 3/4) that it could see over an orchard on a level 1 hill (a 2 >level obstacle)? Yes. >Is the viewing unit at level 2 or level 2 & 3/4? 2.75, when upslope; 2, from any other direction. Therefore, on the BtB5 map, P4 (level 2) can see over the orchards in M5 (combined level 2) to K5 (level 0), because P4 is upslope to K5, giving P4 an extra 3/4 level. P4 can't see M4 at all, however, because P4 is not upslope to M4 and thus LOS is blocked by the intervening L2 crest line in O4. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 18:47:05 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 18:47:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] J92 scenario & errata if any In-Reply-To: <002001c58ccb$818d0680$6ebb7344@DHT8S631> References: <42DAFAA8.9080807@charter.net> <002001c58ccb$818d0680$6ebb7344@DHT8S631> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:36:39 -0400, "Sean Deller" wrote: >Where was this issued? I can't find it. ASL J92 (Your Turn Now) "Both sides amass VP per the hexes listed in SSR 3; if the Japanese do not earn the listed VP by clearing the set DC, then the Filipinos do. Filipino units do not Disrupt." Printed on an orange slip of paper inserted into J6. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 18:52:36 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 18:52:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Observers and Target Selection Limits? In-Reply-To: <32d1bd332045.33204532d1bd@mscd.edu> References: <32d1bd332045.33204532d1bd@mscd.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:35:38 -0600, morrisgj@mscd.edu wrote: >Can the Observer still function normally? I have an FFE:2 onboard at >the moment. In addition to the other answers received, note that even if the Observer and the Panther *were* in the same Location, the Observer is unaffected by this -- see the last sentence of A7.212. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 19:09:18 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 19:09:26 2005 Subject: [Aslml] ATG In-Reply-To: <001601c58d8d$784a2f40$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> References: <001601c58d8d$784a2f40$6401a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> Message-ID: <4hqde1h90v7og51nsgvupo992760f0mr6o@4ax.com> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:45:18 -0500, "Tom and Sandy Sharp" wrote: >According to C5.11 a ATG which maintains is ROF has a CA counter placed on >it for it's retained ROF shot. Not for *all* retained ROF shots. Only for those in "fixing" terrain, i.e., woods/building/rubble, as described in the immediately preceding sentence. >If the ATG is NOT in woods..etc. can it change CA if it retains ROF and fire on >another target (using conditional ROF of course)? Yes, because its CA has not been "fixed" (no CA counter is placed). >If it has no further >targets, can if simply then change it's CA and NOT fire? Yes (per C3.22). >If it IS in >woods..etc. can it also change is CA after firing if it retains ROF (of >course NO additionals shots are taken)? Hmm. It's not perfectly clear, but I'm inclined to say no. C3.22 requires that the crew are "able to fire it" at the end of the Fire Phase without using Intensive/Sustained Fire, and C5.11 says the Gun may only fire *that phase* from within the same CA. If the CA is changing, then the crew are not "able to fire" -- although it's something of a chicken-and-the-egg situation. Note that if the Gun does all its firing as Defensive First Fire and still retains ROF, the CA restriction is removed at the end of the MPh (unless the crew are pinned, per the last sentence of C5.11) and the Gun may thus freely change its CA at the end of the DFPh. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Jul 26 21:10:48 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Jul 26 21:10:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages In-Reply-To: <072620052358.19483.42E6CE160002E84400004C1B22058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> References: <072620052358.19483.42E6CE160002E84400004C1B22058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:58:14 +0000, dreenstra@comcast.net wrote: >I believe those were in OVHS. Z1 and 2 were from KR, included with Journal #3, then came OWT, then OVHS, now PBr. KR was Journal #2, actually. (It's the pedant in me. Sorry.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sidirezegh at charter.net Wed Jul 27 06:05:28 2005 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Wed Jul 27 06:05:38 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Cloyde Angell Message-ID: <42E78698.6000303@charter.net> Folks- For those of you who may have known him, long-time SoCal ASL player Cloyde Angell passed away after a lengthy illness on July 13. Regards, Chas Argent From gd891 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 27 06:26:20 2005 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd) Date: Wed Jul 27 06:26:23 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASSAL sold In-Reply-To: <062920051303.2248.42C29C2B00026274000008C82200751090970A02020705970A020B019D@comcast.net> Message-ID: Maybe now all those null pointers will get fixed..... The last line sorta bothers me: "and online play is regulated through our centralized servers, so that offenders can quickly be identified and blacklisted" If someone is going to be watching my online play, they're going to have to stop laughing long enough to regulate me.... Greg >From the MatrixGames.com website: A New Platform for Game Publishing Matrix Games is pleased to announce that it has acquired the rights to the VASSAL Engine from Vassal Engineering (www.vassalengine.org) and intends to improve and support it as a new platform for game publishing. For game designers and publishers, VASSAL is software that lets you create your own, individually branded, commercial standalone application that moderates any turn-based game for human-vs-human play. For gamers, VASSAL provides a quick and easy way to play your favorite board games online against similar players around the world. Simple mouse and keyboard commands actually simplify game play relative to an equivalent printed game, instead of frustrating players by subjecting them to the software's nuanced interpretation of the rules. Players can play online in real time over a live server or by exchanging email files. When playing live, a player's moves are instantly echoed on other players' screens. Games can be begun live, continued via email, or continued further via live play. David Heath, Director of Operations at Matrix Games, said, "We believe VASSAL offers a great way to bring board gamers together over the internet, while also offering designers a new avenue to reach the gaming public. In many cases, the investment required to turn each design into a printed and distributed game is beyond the reach of many designers and publishers. VASSAL offers a way to reach gamers with new and exciting designs that would not otherwise see print as well as allowing existing board gamers to find a community for their favorite game online." Rodney Kinney, chief architect of the VASSAL Engine platform, said "Matrix Games provides the online presence and distribution channel that will allow game designers to leverage the VASSAL software to create marketable, professional-quality products with a minimum of up-front investment." How does VASSAL work? For designers and publishers, first use the VASSAL editing software to re-create your game. Customize the components that define maps, pieces, online help, tutorials, and all kinds of specialized behavior. We will turn it into an application that players can launch from either the web or the desktop. Players pay a one-time fee and receive a registration code that enables the software. Optional extensions can be sold separately. No programming is necessary to create a game, but if you can program in Java, the engine allows you to plug in your customized code. Your intellectual property is completely secure with VASSAL. We add our own proprietary software to the core engine to support encryption, password-based registration, and secure saved game formats. All data is encrypted, and online play is regulated through our centralized servers, so that offenders can quickly be identified and blacklisted. From jmmcleod at mts.net Wed Jul 27 07:48:27 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Wed Jul 27 08:11:30 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Cloyde Angell References: <42E78698.6000303@charter.net> Message-ID: <001801c592bd$627cd6b0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Hello Chas, Thanks for sharing that sad news. I met Cloyde in Baltimore, the two times I went to to DonCon. I had the priviledge to socialize and have dinner with him and a group of other gamers, he was a fascinating man and funny as anything. He had some very cool stories about his career. In Chicago, I played Cloyde at the Open where he kicked me about like a lose stone in "A Breezeless day". Take care Cloyde. =Jim= From jmmcleod at mts.net Wed Jul 27 08:48:31 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Wed Jul 27 08:48:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested References: <000b01c55635$4dce2c60$3200170a@DF6TP71X> <003301c5568c$37625ad0$1027c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: <002f01c592c2$a44b82d0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Listerz; If anyone can help with the following it will be appreciated, I am entering the following scenarios into WARS and I need the game length in turns for the following scenarios, CAW7, To The Seine CDN10 per l'ononre d'Italia FE16, Where the Bullet Meets the Bone SP72, One Tough Canuck GD1, la guerre finie! Thanks in advance. =Jim= From jmmcleod at mts.net Wed Jul 27 08:51:37 2005 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Wed Jul 27 08:51:35 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested References: <000b01c55635$4dce2c60$3200170a@DF6TP71X><003301c5568c$37625ad0$1027c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> <002f01c592c2$a44b82d0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: <003401c592c3$13431a90$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Listerz, Further to the previous list, OB3 Close Quarters Thanks. =Jim= From rjmosher at direcway.com Wed Jul 27 09:04:07 2005 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Wed Jul 27 09:04:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Cloyde Angell In-Reply-To: <42E78698.6000303@charter.net> References: <42E78698.6000303@charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050727110308.01c4fb00@pop3.direcway.com> At 08:05 AM 7/27/2005, Chas Argent wrote: >ASL player Cloyde Angell passed One of the best, taught me from day one, many many moons ago. He'll be missed. ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From bpickering at csworld.com Wed Jul 27 09:40:02 2005 From: bpickering at csworld.com (Brian Pickering (CSWorld)) Date: Wed Jul 27 09:40:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested In-Reply-To: <003401c592c3$13431a90$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: <200507270938812.SM01036@IVANOVA> 6.5 turns -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of mcleods Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:52 AM To: mcleods; 'ASL Mailing List' Subject: Re: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested Listerz, Further to the previous list, OB3 Close Quarters Thanks. =Jim= _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From bpickering at csworld.com Wed Jul 27 09:43:10 2005 From: bpickering at csworld.com (Brian Pickering (CSWorld)) Date: Wed Jul 27 09:43:15 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested In-Reply-To: <002f01c592c2$a44b82d0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: <200507270941500.SM01036@IVANOVA> Can provide two of them: GD1 La Guerre Finie!! 8.0 CAW7 To The Seine 6.0 >From http://bpickering.members.winisp.net/tigrroar/default.aspx :-) Brian Pickering -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of mcleods Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:49 AM To: 'ASL Mailing List' Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested Listerz; If anyone can help with the following it will be appreciated, I am entering the following scenarios into WARS and I need the game length in turns for the following scenarios, CAW7, To The Seine CDN10 per l'ononre d'Italia FE16, Where the Bullet Meets the Bone SP72, One Tough Canuck GD1, la guerre finie! Thanks in advance. =Jim= _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From partisan_8-0 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 27 14:25:39 2005 From: partisan_8-0 at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Wed Jul 27 14:25:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Cloyde Angell Remembered Message-ID: <342569.1122499539742.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I was sad to hear this particular news. While living in Ventura in 2002 and 2003 I played Cloyde many times in some manly and gnarly scenarios. We played often as he was just twenty minutes down the road in Camarillo. He kept me from becoming rusty while away from my fellow bitter enders of NC. Those who played Cloyde knew what a martinet he was about marking pieces that performed actions, etc. He certainly cleaned up my NC redneck grunge play. I think many who attended tournaments with him will remember his strong voice (almost shouting) saying "Repair, Recovery, Rally" at the start of every player turn. In the end that voice was quite weakened by his battle with cancer which I think he knew he would lose. ASL was very good therapy following his chemo although it usually drained him by the end of a scenario. I wish the best to his wife, daughter and son who will miss a good husband and father. Seems the SOCAL group has lost another icon. Raymond "Zadra" Woloszyn PS: Can someone send me a link to his obituary? From jim.white at dol.net Wed Jul 27 14:27:08 2005 From: jim.white at dol.net (James S. White Jr.) Date: Wed Jul 27 14:35:05 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RB CG III question again... Message-ID: <001901c592f2$bc65db60$6401a8c0@workstation1> Did a refit after a completed scenario. Both sides choose Idle for the following day. Therefore...doing another Refit to prepare for what should be a good size blood-letting. My question is this... During the first RePh I purchased Molotov capabilities...and I quite easily found on the Reinforcement Chart (note 'x') that MOL is available only for the next scenario *played*...so obviously I will retain that capability even through an Idle Day. This got me wondering. What about any HIP capability I purchased during the first RePh? Does this carry over until the next scenario is *played*. Couldn't locate anything on this one...what say the List? Thanks, From jbarber at meic.org Wed Jul 27 15:57:52 2005 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Wed Jul 27 15:57:53 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL5 and extensions Message-ID: Can someone please refresh my memory on how to make the VASL4 extensions work in VASL5. I seem to have left that information in my other suit. -- Jeff "suit yerself" Barber From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 27 16:02:28 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 27 16:02:36 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Information Requested In-Reply-To: <002f01c592c2$a44b82d0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> References: <000b01c55635$4dce2c60$3200170a@DF6TP71X> <003301c5568c$37625ad0$1027c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> <002f01c592c2$a44b82d0$8e27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:48:31 -0500, "mcleods" wrote: >I am entering the following scenarios into WARS and I need the game length >in turns for the following scenarios, > >SP72, One Tough Canuck 7.5 turns. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Jul 27 16:07:55 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Jul 27 16:08:28 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RB CG III question again... In-Reply-To: <001901c592f2$bc65db60$6401a8c0@workstation1> References: <001901c592f2$bc65db60$6401a8c0@workstation1> Message-ID: <7k4ge1hs5look0f0n3ocqjas6hjau5v2m5@4ax.com> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:27:08 -0400, "James S. White Jr." wrote: >Did a refit after a completed scenario. Both sides choose Idle for the >following day. Therefore...doing another Refit to prepare for what should >be a good size blood-letting. My question is this... > >During the first RePh I purchased Molotov capabilities...and I quite easily >found on the Reinforcement Chart (note 'x') that MOL is available only for >the next scenario *played*...so obviously I will retain that capability even >through an Idle Day. This got me wondering. What about any HIP capability >I purchased during the first RePh? Does this carry over until the next >scenario is *played*. Couldn't locate anything on this one...what say the >List? Purchased HIP capability is a type of Fortification in RB, so: O11.621 "However, the actual on-map positioning of Fortifications may be deferred until that side sets up for the next CG scenario." You've purchased the *capability* to set up a number of units HIP. You don't have to make the decision about which units, or where, until you're actually setting up the scenario. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bpickering at csworld.com Wed Jul 27 16:10:05 2005 From: bpickering at csworld.com (Brian Pickering (CSWorld)) Date: Wed Jul 27 16:10:08 2005 Subject: [Aslml] VASL5 and extensions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200507271608750.SM01036@IVANOVA> Jeff, >From http://www.vasl.org/download.htm#extensions ================================ VASL 5.0 will read games saved by VASL 4.x, if you have the VASL4.mdx extension installed. It's installed automatically when you run VASL 5.0. Pick an empty directory for extensions when prompted, and specify that directory in the 'Extensions' tab of the preferences. ================================ Thanks, Brian Pickering -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Barber Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:58 PM To: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] VASL5 and extensions Can someone please refresh my memory on how to make the VASL4 extensions work in VASL5. I seem to have left that information in my other suit. -- Jeff "suit yerself" Barber _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From danielzucker at comcast.net Wed Jul 27 16:37:17 2005 From: danielzucker at comcast.net (daniel zucker) Date: Wed Jul 27 16:37:31 2005 Subject: [Aslml] missing pages References: <072620052358.19483.42E6CE160002E84400004C1B22058891160E9D9B9C020A0A9D0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <00c901c59304$21e623d0$29e18e45@danielmpnlmqxq> thanks and I found them !!! right in the OVHS box where I left them Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "daniel zucker" ; "ASL List" Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] missing pages >I believe those were in OVHS. Z1 and 2 were from KR, included with Journal >#3, then came OWT, then OVHS, now PBr. > > Dave Reenstra > > >> I seem to be missing form section Z pages Z21 to Z38. Where those pages >> included with a Historical Study or Journal? and which one? >> >> Daniel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aslml-aslml.net mailing list >> Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net From oleboe at broadpark.no Thu Jul 28 00:01:26 2005 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_B=F8e?=) Date: Thu Jul 28 00:03:14 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control Message-ID: <7f8d1aae7e67.42e89ee6@broadpark.no> Hi, I answered this some weeks ago, but Bruce brings it back, and the topic is always worth a discussion, so: > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Nelson > >a) Is D5.33 the only rule discussing WHEN exactly one > >goes CE or BU? I ask this because I vaguely recall a > >rule that said one 'combines' changing this status > >with an MP during the MPh. But that is not stated > >here. My opponent's Panther has just begun its MPh CE. > >As his very first action, he wants to BU. Then start > >for one and roll away. My infantry want to shoot at > >his CE...am I allowed? > Bruce answered: > There's an old, convoluted Perry Sez that Wayne Hadady posted a > few years back which essentially asked the opposite of what you're > asking (i.e., if a BU AFV becomes CE, is that in itself eligible to trigger > Defensive First Fire?). To summarise the answer, it was "it depends" > -- basically, it was a matter of the MP that the vehicle had expended, >since DFF occurs *only* in response to > expended MP, not any other action. (EXC: the C5.33 DEFENDER- > initiated Gun Duel.) > > Basically my conclusion is that since you're not eligible for > C5.33 (the Panther is not declaring any pre-movement fire, so > you have nothing to declare a Gun Duel against) you have to wait > until after that first MP is expended, by which time the vehicle is safely BU. > That's correct. A8.1 and C5.33 tell us that there are only two things that allow DFF: 1) Expended MF/MP 2) BFF before the first MP None have happened yet here, so no DFF is allowed until an MP is expended or BFF is declared. > If your opponent had done it the other way around -- i.e., he had > declared the Start MP, and then declared that he was BU -- you > might have an argument.(And I'm not sure who should win that argument.) > That depends on how he had declared it. If he had declared it: "I expend a Start MP" - pause - "I then go BU" or something similar, then he would be required by A8.11 to give you enough time to declare DFF before going BU, allowing you DFF while the AFV was CE. However, if he declared two simultaneous actions: "I expend a Start MP and goes BU", then the AFV would go BU at the same time as expending the Start MP. And since your DFF opportunity is *after* the MP is expended - the AFV will be BU. In this specific situation, there's no reason for the ATTACKER not to simply go BU first to avoid any such ambigiouties, but there may be other situations where it is important to declare simultaneous actions. From rln22 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 28 13:16:17 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Thu Jul 28 13:16:21 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control In-Reply-To: <7f8d1aae7e67.42e89ee6@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <20050728201617.65955.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> Ok Ole and Bruce, and others, the BU issue seems well clear now. but did you two notice you're on opposite sides of the fence on this nagging PB CG control issue? Two months now my CG has been on hold because of this. It's a much bigger deal than it might seem. It's at the end of Day One, I the Germans have Le Port. A broken Brtitish HS has slipped past my Le Port defenses along the River, and is making a break (rout actually) for it to one of MY foxholes, already dug in preparation for Lovatt's Men marching in Day 2! If he is ALLOWED to control it, during the RePh, there's suddenly a big hole in my defense, right in the path of Lovatt!!! Alas, 6-8 weeks waiting on Perry, and nothing.... Flipping a coin on this one seems just two cheesy after the amount of time devoted to the CG thus far. Alas, Opponent is on holiday till early September. If still no resolution, then I guess we'll have to flip... Bruce, to be clear, you reckon that the ability to gain control 'during play' means that gaining control during the first three steps of the RePh is fine as, as far as anyone can tell, it's 'during play', ie, there is no definition of 'play', and thus, why not during the reph? ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Jul 28 19:06:06 2005 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Jul 28 19:06:12 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control In-Reply-To: <20050728201617.65955.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <7f8d1aae7e67.42e89ee6@broadpark.no> <20050728201617.65955.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <852je1td2pgu5ajrcrtmvebhjgr3to62is@4ax.com> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT), Robert Nelson wrote: >but did you two notice you're on opposite sides of the >fence on this nagging PB CG control issue? What's your point? >Bruce, to be clear, you reckon that the ability to >gain control 'during play' means that gaining control >during the first three steps of the RePh is fine as, >as far as anyone can tell, it's 'during play', ie, >there is no definition of 'play', and thus, why not >during the reph? That's about the size of it. Even if A26 stated "play of the scenario" (which it doesn't), Q9.603 is *explicitly* still a step that occurs during play of the scenario! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "By this time my lungs were aching for air!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Fri Jul 29 11:42:40 2005 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:42:42 2005 Subject: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control In-Reply-To: <20050728201617.65955.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >From: Robert Nelson >Subject: Re: [Aslml] D5.33, and PBCG control >Alas, 6-8 weeks waiting on Perry, and nothing.... Just a general comment on rules Q&A. Please ensure you use the MMP Q&A page to submit Q&A, since Q&A sent directly to Perry are much more likely to slip through a crack and be missed. The ones sent to the Q&A page are automatically sent to several people...who help remind Perry when he hasn't yet answered a particular Q&A. I recommend that you re-submit your Q&A, since it has NOT come through the MMP Q&A page that I know of...so there's a fair chance it's been misplaced by poor, overworked, hairy-faced, slightly-absent-minded-professor Perry. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall From rln22 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 13:36:51 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Fri Jul 29 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Senegalese? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050729203652.82934.qmail@web52610.mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone tell me some scenario(s) involving Senegalese troops in France, May/June 1940? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rln22 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 13:36:51 2005 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Fri Jul 29 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Senegalese? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050729203652.82934.qmail@web52610.mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone tell me some scenario(s) involving Senegalese troops in France, May/June 1940? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk Sat Jul 30 06:48:34 2005 From: phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk (Phil Draper) Date: Sat Jul 30 06:42:10 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Op Veriatable Questions References: <20050729203652.82934.qmail@web52610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c5950d$61822600$c98a2d50@cerberus> Hi All, A couple of questions have come up recently during an ongoing Riley's Road CG and I was wondering what the lists opinion is. 1) If a player has a setup area that completely crosses the width of the board from E to W, do all locations between his setup area and his friendly board edge come under his control? Are they in effect counted as being surrounded hexes under Z2.5054? 2) Do reinforcing Sherman Platoons receive any AAMG? The CG rules are explicit about vehicles received as initial CG forces but not for RG V1 and V2. Incidently these questions came up as I was building a couple of tools to assist in the op. Veriatable CG. One is an Excel based CG purchase assistant that tracks your RG purchases. It produces a CG roster and RG purchase record, generates leaders etc. The second is a Visio tool that tracks strategic locations and calculates and draws out the setup area including no mans land. We have found it quite useful in quickly generating setup maps. Both are just prototypes but if anyone wants a shufty drop me a line and I will mail either or both of them to you. Obviously you need Excel and Visio on your PC to use them. Any feedback would be gratefully received. I should also say that the Visio tool uses Chris Milne's Riley's Road map for VASL and counter artwork also from VASL, thanks Rodney! Cheers Phil From aslwynn at rogers.com Sat Jul 30 13:03:07 2005 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (WYNN POLNICKY) Date: Sat Jul 30 13:03:09 2005 Subject: [Aslml] BRT Report - End of first (AM) scenario Message-ID: <002a01c59541$b3f52ed0$3fc3c445@D56LBC31> Gentlemen; First AM scenario has been completed. The PM scenario is scheduled to commence Saturday, 27 August. Executive summary: Gyrenes are ashore on all three beaches, a couple hexes over the wall on Red 1 and near O46 on Red Beach 3, just one hex over in a couple of hexes on Red Beach 2. USMC armor (M4s and M5s) arrived only at Red Beach 3. One Isolated Jap pocket in the tip of the Beak. Total USMC CVPs suffered (after completion of refit phase): 334 USMC casualty breakdown: Units: # CVPs: 1 FB 1 2 SFCPs(3) 3 6 M5A1/crew 1 6 LVTs 33 33 10-3 1 4 10-2s 6 18 9-2s 7 21 9-1s 8 16 8-1s 5 10 8-0s 9 9 7-0s 8 8 0-0-9s 2 Crews 20 40 7-6-8s 8 16 6-6-8s 26 52 Assorted Half squads 93 93 Also 8 Fts, 8 DCs have been destroyed/eliminated in refit phase and a bunch of Shermans (3??) immobilized, along with 1 M5 and a bunch of LVTs. On Red Beach 3, the USMC has a bumch of Shermans and M5s (one M5 has been destroyed, 3(?) Shermans immobilized, 13 squads including 4 eng squads with 2 FTs, 4 crews, 1 10-3, 1 10-2, 2 9-2s, a bunch of lesser leaders. No SFCPs exist (any more) on this beach. On Red Beach 2 there is one surviving SFCP, 21 squads (1 eng), 1 crew, 2 10-2s, 1 9-2 plus lesser guys. No AFVs tried to come ashore here. Red Beach 1 has 2 SFCPs, 27 squads (3 of them engineers with 2 FTs), 5 crews, 1 10-3, 3 9-2s and some lesser leaders. On the map the Japanese have: 1 10-2, 4 10-1s, 3 10-0s, 3 9-1s, 1 9-0, 3 8-0s, 27 4-4-8s, 3 3-4-8s (striped) and 1 2-3-8. There are also 9 4-4-7s, 1 2-4-7, and a bunch of lesser squads including half a dozen Koreans. SWs include 10 HMGs, 17 MMGs, one(!!) 37* and a bunch of (10 or 15) knee mortars. The chrysanthemum soldiers failed their artillery training; almost all of their heavy weaponry (5/8 inch) have been disabled, all that remains is 3 76Ls, a couple of 37Ls, a 75AA and a 75 INF. All the large caliber ones are gone, few of them to US action. Of course the Japanese have a bunch of stuff in reserve and (potentially) HIP and never revealed. Almost forgot, there are 5 or so HA-GOs still surviving. So, comments on how we are doing?? What a bloody CG! Wynn "No Seppuku for You" Polnicky From ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 30 14:29:27 2005 From: ibncalb at yahoo.co.uk (Binyamin Jones) Date: Sat Jul 30 14:29:30 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Op Veriatable Questions In-Reply-To: <001f01c5950d$61822600$c98a2d50@cerberus> Message-ID: <20050730212927.50305.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --- Phil Draper wrote: > thanks Rodney! > > Cheers > > Phil if you know the london accent this was written in it don't half sound like trigger b e n alright dave ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com From pshelling at comcast.net Sat Jul 30 19:14:26 2005 From: pshelling at comcast.net (pshelling@comcast.net) Date: Sat Jul 30 19:14:47 2005 Subject: [Aslml] RE: senegalese troops Message-ID: <073120050214.21329.42EC3401000F052000005351220699973509020704040A089C9F@comcast.net> Robert remarked: >Can anyone tell me some scenario(s) involving >Senegalese troops in France, May/June 1940? I think Le Herrisson involves African colonial troops. Not sure if they were Senegalese troops or from some other colony. One of the more classic scenarios from Croix de Guerre. Still pretty even, I think. Pete 'That one was designed by my mentor' Shelling From albcann at warwick.net Sun Jul 31 08:50:16 2005 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Sun Jul 31 08:50:29 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Campaign games Message-ID: <000f01c595e7$8edc3f70$2613c7d0@DGYPG541> Fellows, Getting into ASL relatively recently, I just played Mishcon's Market Garden CG from the 1991 ASL Annual. Does any one know if there is any other CG's out there -- AH/MMP or TPP -- similar to that one? I know of Pete Shelling's Kursk and Line in the Sand, but I prefer the shorter scenarios like in Mishcon's. Any help would be appreciated. Al Cann From pslogger at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 23:24:15 2005 From: pslogger at yahoo.com (Paul Logger) Date: Sun Jul 31 23:24:19 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Critcal hit by a motar question Message-ID: <20050801062416.16037.qmail@web53801.mail.yahoo.com> If a mortar rolls a critical hit on a building with a crew at level 0 and another crew at level 1 and a mortar without a crew on the roof, is the mortar on the roof included in the random selection for the effects of the critical hit? So would there be 3 rolls for random selection of a the critical hit effects. Paul ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From dmgillies at comcast.net Sun Jul 31 23:59:45 2005 From: dmgillies at comcast.net (David Gillies) Date: Sun Jul 31 23:57:54 2005 Subject: [Aslml] Critcal hit by a motar question In-Reply-To: <20050801062416.16037.qmail@web53801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050801065752.131141BAC2@che.dreamhost.com> I would say no: ATT says all units in the hex are hit. A unit is defined as a playing piece with MF/MP's or a dummy. Dave -----Original Message----- From: aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-aslml.net-bounces@lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Paul Logger Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:24 PM To: aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Critcal hit by a motar question If a mortar rolls a critical hit on a building with a crew at level 0 and another crew at level 1 and a mortar without a crew on the roof, is the mortar on the roof included in the random selection for the effects of the critical hit? So would there be 3 rolls for random selection of a the critical hit effects. Paul ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Aslml-aslml.net mailing list Aslml-aslml.net@lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster@aslml.net