From cduke at intelnett.com Tue Aug 1 08:17:01 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:17:01 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Sniper choice Message-ID: <002201c6b57d$8a24ba00$651ea8c0@Duke> Suppose a concealed vehicle is a possible sniper choice. Must the vehicular player tell the sniper player if the vehicle is an eligible target or let him take his chances of an ineffective sniper attack if it turns out to be a CT AFV? From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 1 12:04:47 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:04:47 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Sniper choice In-Reply-To: <002201c6b57d$8a24ba00$651ea8c0@Duke> References: <002201c6b57d$8a24ba00$651ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:17:01 -0600, Charles Duke wrote: >Suppose a concealed vehicle is a possible sniper choice. Must the vehicular >player tell the sniper player if the vehicle is an eligible target or let >him take his chances of an ineffective sniper attack if it turns out to be a >CT AFV? If the concealed unit is not an eligible target the sniper will not attack it. The owner of the vehicle does not need to say "this is a CT AFV", but he does need to say "it's not an eligible target". A14.23 "... if a concealed stack is chosen as the sniper's target ... the sniper player's opponent must declare the number (only) of eligible possible targets that stack contains." It is true that A14.23 then goes on to assume that a concealed stack with no eligible targets *must* be a dummy stack (and is thus eliminated by the sniper). However, *we* know that this is not the only way a concealed stack can be ineligible. The remainder of the sniper rules make it clear that an ineligible target cannot be attacked (i.e., is ignored by) a sniper. (Note that the sniper rules make a clear distinction between "ineligible targets" and "eligible targets that can't be further affected" -- e.g., a sniper dr of "2" will still attack a broken MMC that is marked with a DM counter, even though the attack cannot actually do anything -- the MMC is still an eligible target.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From johncmeyers at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 20:41:03 2006 From: johncmeyers at gmail.com (John Meyers) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:41:03 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 Message-ID: <3f5a344e0608012041l44df16dbr38c9ff7c242fb25f@mail.gmail.com> Since everybody else is off actually playing ASL, I guess it's up to me to give a description of the latest Journal. I haven't read much of this issue yet--I've not had it that long--but figured someone might like to know what's in it. John Journal #7 is 48 pages. The "extra" is board v. That's right, a board from the upcoming Starter Kit #3. It's used in one of the scenarios. P1, (front cover) is the Ken Smith painting we've already seen at the MMP site (I think I remember seeing there in the past). P2-3, Debriefing, is the latest round of errata. I don't know if any of this has been seen before; maybe Bruce will let us know. P3, TOC and masthead. P4-5, The Blue Devils: Croatian 1st Light Infantry Parachute Battalion in ASL, by Steven Swann. P6-7, The Commisar Dialectric, or, It's Our Party and You'll Die if You Have To, by Bruce Probst. P7-13, Got OVHS?, "Got Milk?" Is a Great Start, An Analysis of HS26, by Oliver Giancola. P10, Tips from the Trenches (1 of 4 in this issue). P13 (+47), A Word from the Editors. P14-18, 31 (+5), Hungry Hungry HIPpies: The Theory and Practice of Hidden Initial Placement, by Mark Pitcavage. P18, Tips from the Trenches (2 of 4 in this issue). P32-46, Tommy Atkins at War Revisited: A Deeper Look at the British in ASL, Part II, by Charles Markuss. P41, Tips from the Trenches (3 of 4 in this issue). This one also refers to the errata in this issue. P44, Tips from the Trenches (4 of 4 in this issue). P47, Feline On-Board Artillery (FOBA). Humor piece. Includes errata. P48 (rear cover) is an ad for The Devil's Cauldron. (non-ASL, gasp!) The scenarios: 122, Extracurricular Activity, Hungarian attacking Russian, Buda, 25 Dec 1944. (Yes, this is ASL scenario 122. It just wouldn't fit in AoO.) 5.5 turns. J102, The Yelnya Bridge, German attacking Russian, 13 Oct 1941. 4.5 turns. (An amazingly low number of leaders in this scenario.) J103, Lenin's Sons, Germans attacking Russian, 14 Oct 1941. 6.5 turns. No vehicles or guns (but one light mortar). J104, Flanking Flamethrowers, German attacking Russian, 15 Oct 1941. 6.5 turns. J105, Borodino Train Station, Russian attacking German, 16 Oct 1941, 5.5 turns. (You've probably noticed how these last five were each 1 day apart in time. They are all Xavier Vitry designs showing parts of the last push on Moscow.) J106, Marders not Martyrs, Russian attacking German, 10 Sep 1942. 5.5 turns. Uses board v. J107, Operation Schwarz, Croat attacking Bosnian (partisan), 15 May 1943. 6.5 turns. J108, Danica Air, Croat (partisan) attacking Croat, 6 Oct 1943. 5.5 turns. J109, Break for Hungary, Croat (partisan) attacking Croat, 9 Nov 1943. 6.5 turns. (Same units (not counters!), same boards, but more (all) in play, as J108.) J110, The Prelude to Spring, Russian attacking German, 8 Dec 1944. 8 turns. 4 half boards and some heavy metal. J111, Prussia in Flames, Russian attacking German, 28 Jan 1945. 8 turns. 4 ISU-122s and supporting infantry against 2 75mm AT guns and infantry at start. Germans get reinforcements of a 3 conscripts, a 6+1, and a StuG IIIG. Russians get reinforcements of 3 5-2-7s, an 8-1, and 2 BT-34s. Ouch. J112, Prelude to Dying, Croat attacking Partisan, 8 May 1945. 7.5 turns. A reasonably varied, even if all East front, bunch. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 1 22:46:38 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:46:38 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <3f5a344e0608012041l44df16dbr38c9ff7c242fb25f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f5a344e0608012041l44df16dbr38c9ff7c242fb25f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:41:03 -0400, "John Meyers" wrote: >P2-3, Debriefing, is the latest round of errata. I don't know if any >of this has been seen before; maybe Bruce will let us know. Some of it is reprinting information already provided in AoO, or covering stuff that was addressed in the updated charts and tables from the recent ASLRB reprint. Other stuff is just cleaning up some obvious typos or omissions. Most of the rest has resulted from various ASLML discussions, or old Q&A (*very* old in one or two cases!). There are maybe two or three items (at most) that experienced players need to pay extra attention to ... important clarifications to rules that you may have been playing "wrong" for a long, long time ... I certainly have been! Note that Ole has provided new "sticky" errata pages on his website to download, for those so inclined. >P6-7, The Commisar Dialectric, or, It's Our Party and You'll Die if >You Have To, by Bruce Probst. Oh I do hope that's a typo on your part, John. It should be "dialectic", not "dialectric". Thanks for the preview! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Wed Aug 2 09:31:58 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:31:58 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] BV3 print error Message-ID: Several players in Sweden seem to have an print error on their counters from Beyind Valor v3. The broken side of the elite Soviet 248 HS show two soldiers laying with SMGs by their sides. This is the same picture as the elite Soviet 328 HS. Surely the 248 backside should show soldiers with rifles on the ground, no? Is this a universal error in all BV3? Janusz From reamees at earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 10:18:09 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:18:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] Message-ID: <19307247.1154539089498.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> With floods and earthquakes I now ponder whether I should come to ASLOK :). What happens when a quake moves pieces to a more tactically advantageous position or knocks those dice from boxcars to snake eyes? What gives, Brett? Cleveland hasn't been this dangerous since 1968 [Hough riots] or my driving up from Warren that same year as an eighteen year old to catch an Indians' game. "Zadra" From g3omi at nc.rr.com Wed Aug 2 10:51:44 2006 From: g3omi at nc.rr.com (Gomi) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:51:44 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] References: <19307247.1154539089498.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000601c6b65c$52321c20$6501a8c0@Kaiju> Not to mention the time(s) they put a Blaze counter on the Cuyahoga river. Kaijusan Cary, Equatorial Carolina, USA, Earth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Woloszyn" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] > With floods and earthquakes I now ponder whether I should come to > ASLOK :). What happens when a quake moves pieces to a more tactically > advantageous position or knocks those dice from boxcars to snake eyes? > > What gives, Brett? Cleveland hasn't been this dangerous since 1968 > [Hough riots] or my driving up from Warren that same year as an eighteen > year old to catch an Indians' game. > > "Zadra" > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 2 11:12:33 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:12:33 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] Message-ID: <20060802181233.PWCH28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Raymond Woloszyn writes: > With floods and earthquakes I now ponder whether I should come to ASLOK :). Obviously Zadra's a Washington Post reader. I honestly had no idea what the quake reference was to, until Google revealed the Post article. Shall we say it hasn't been a topic of conversation in greater Cleveland & I have multiple co-workers who live in that area. You'll be pleased to know that the ASLOK locale has been carefully placed to be a maximum distance from both earthquake and flood areas. We're ~40 miles from Mentor where the quakes are seemingly centered & the flooding was the worst. And as for flooding - they don't call it Middleburg HEIGHTS for nothing :-) Besides the Post article characterized the quakes as: "The earthquakes have been small, measuring from magnitude 2.0 to 3.8" - like anyone will be able to differentiate that minor rumble from the typical ASLer carrying in his ASL gear for the tourney. > What happens when a quake moves pieces to a more tactically advantageous position or knocks those dice from boxcars to snake eyes? In the unlikely event of such an occurence, just consider yourself lucky and presume that the ASL gods were smiling upon you (or your opponent as the case may be). You may want to be well equipped with some Caddyshack quotes though just in case. As for that blaze in the Cuyahoga thing, well it hasn't happened in my lifetime so either we're due or safe. Not sure which. But luckily ASLOK isn't river adjacent anyway, so the Smoke won't hinder our LOS to the gameboard... FYI - the last of the ASLOK flyers went out this past Monday. If you don't get a flyer shortly it either means I don't have a valid address for you, or you already pre- regged (thanks if the latter). If the former you can head to http://www.aslok.org/prereg.html to snare the flyers and all the pre-reg info you need. I'll also note that if you have your heart set on a particular mini, pre-reg soon as I expect many to start filling once people receive the flyers... So far pre-regs are running quite close to last year's pace (I think last year I had 40 by the end of July and this year I have 37)... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From inbox at chriswalton.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 2 11:47:05 2006 From: inbox at chriswalton.demon.co.uk (inbox@chriswalton.demon.co.uk) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 19:47:05 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] (no subject) Message-ID: I am trying to set up my first Red Barricades scenario and am a little puzzled by the interaction of the sewer rules, the fortified building rules, and the tunnel rules. Can I forfeit a fortified location in one part of the board for a tunnel in another part of the map? Must I set up a tunnel in the location that I have foregone the fortified building capability? If so how does this tie up with O.2A which states that: "Only a unit of the side that constructed a tunnel may use that tunnel to enter a Fortified Building Location and may do so even if that Location is enemy-occupied."? Chris From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Wed Aug 2 13:36:35 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] In-Reply-To: <19307247.1154539089498.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060802203635.74972.qmail@web34502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Did I miss something is the news? Or is this just a pervading sense of oncoming doom? Jazz --- Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > With floods and earthquakes I now ponder whether I should come to ASLOK :). What happens > when a quake moves pieces to a more tactically advantageous position or knocks those dice from > boxcars to snake eyes? > > What gives, Brett? Cleveland hasn't been this dangerous since 1968 [Hough riots] or my > driving up from Warren that same year as an eighteen year old to catch an Indians' game. > > "Zadra" > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From bpickeri at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 13:44:34 2006 From: bpickeri at gmail.com (Brian Pickering) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:44:34 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOK safe? [Question for Brett] In-Reply-To: <20060802203635.74972.qmail@web34502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <19307247.1154539089498.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20060802203635.74972.qmail@web34502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <885c41aa0608021344p59574529i548000d44139936a@mail.gmail.com> Just obscure news. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/02/AR2006080200261.html All these non-geologists who think that, just because they live in the middle of the continent, that they're safe from earthquakes. ;-) Brian Pickering On 8/2/06, Jazz wrote: > Did I miss something is the news? > > Or is this just a pervading sense of oncoming doom? > > Jazz > > --- Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > > > With floods and earthquakes I now ponder whether I should come to ASLOK :). What happens > > when a quake moves pieces to a more tactically advantageous position or knocks those dice from > > boxcars to snake eyes? > > > > What gives, Brett? Cleveland hasn't been this dangerous since 1968 [Hough riots] or my > > driving up from Warren that same year as an eighteen year old to catch an Indians' game. > > > > "Zadra" > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Brian Pickering bpickeri at gmail.com From pshelling at comcast.net Wed Aug 2 15:22:18 2006 From: pshelling at comcast.net (pshelling@comcast.net) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:22:18 +0000 Subject: [Aslml] Is ASLOk safe? Message-ID: <080220062222.21202.44D1259A000424BD000052D2220076230209020704040A089C9F@comcast.net> I live right next to Mentor (Willoughby), and have never felt any earthquake. Floods, now-- I'm sick of. Good thing I never thought to keep my ASL gear in the basement. Barely got my books and lesser games outta there. So Ray, you've really got no excuse- There isn't even a partisan mini this year, just in case you were thinking about ducking my vengeful wrath from last year's close call.... See you in 60 days!!!! From reamees at earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 17:30:48 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 20:30:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Dangerous" Cleveland Message-ID: <29005891.1154565048976.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Brett, I can now sleep soundly tonight knowing that we won't be in any danger from natural catastrophes. I guess it was a slow news day to pick up on that earthquake story (right). I had to break out my AH "Arab-Israeli Wars" wargame the other day to follow better current events. Tomorrow I will begin to fret about the unnatural disasters that a good ASLOK generates. I'd do a credible top ten list but I don't have the writers that Letterman has. Anyway... 10) Crossing Engle Road by foot 9) The Death Strip (any of the favorite ASLOK eateries) 8) The restrooms at the Plaza hotel from about 15:00 to 09:00 (when cleaned) 7) Being overrun by a hotel baggage cart loaded with ASL gear 6) Decapitation (a la "The Omen") by a sheet of Plexiglas falling off a hotel baggage cart loaded with ASL gear 5) Being picked up and rolled by one of the local lovelies at the hotel bar (fantasy only) 4) Discovering the hotel cleaning staff is actually a sleeper cell 3) Giving Wild Bill decaffeinated coffee 2) Telling Fish that the reason he doesn't compete anymore is that he's afraid he'll lose to McGrath 1) Winning the GROFAZ after a twenty year lull and then keeling over with a heart attack (the winning part is unnatural part lately) Got the fryer. Definitely not a substitute for J7, especially after reading about all the goodies in this issue (many thanks John). East Front mind candy for me to be sure. 3a CCCP! Well, time to scan the already registered players for the minis to avoid the aces and register myself. "Zadra" From oleboe at broadpark.no Thu Aug 3 01:21:00 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 10:21:00 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Fortified Locations vs Tunnels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Chris Walton wrote: > > I am trying to set up my first Red Barricades scenario and am a > little puzzled by the interaction of the sewer rules, the > fortified building rules, and the tunnel rules. > > Can I forfeit a fortified location in one part of the board for a > tunnel in another part of the map? Not if the hex/building is specified for a Fortified Location. You can only exchange Fortified Locations into tunnels if their hex/building Location is not specified. See B8.6. BTW, note that in the RB CG, you cannot exchange Fortified Locations to tunnels at all, as tunnels must be bought separately, for a different cost than FL's. > Must I set up a tunnel in the location that I have foregone the > fortified building capability? If so how does this tie up with > O.2A which states that: > "Only a unit of the side that constructed a tunnel may use that > tunnel to enter a Fortified Building Location and may do so even > if that Location is enemy-occupied."? > Since you can only give up FL's that has no specific location, I guess the remaining part of your questions is NA. From albcann at warwick.net Thu Aug 3 07:32:43 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:32:43 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's Message-ID: <003801c6b709$af607240$9fab06d8@DGYPG541> Hi guys, Simple one, I think. Can wading LVT's fire their MG's while they are loaded with passengers? Thanks, Al Cann From robert_maglica at yahoo.com Thu Aug 3 09:38:58 2006 From: robert_maglica at yahoo.com (Robert Maglica) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:38:58 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] BV3 print error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c6b71b$55748f20$6300a8c0@obelix> At least one of them seems to have the name on the box spelled wrong as well. ;) /Robert -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] F?r Janusz Maxe Skickat: den 2 augusti 2006 18:32 Till: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net ?mne: [Aslml] BV3 print error Several players in Sweden seem to have an print error on their counters from Beyind Valor v3. The broken side of the elite Soviet 248 HS show two soldiers laying with SMGs by their sides. This is the same picture as the elite Soviet 328 HS. Surely the 248 backside should show soldiers with rifles on the ground, no? Is this a universal error in all BV3? Janusz _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 4 00:36:24 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:36:24 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's In-Reply-To: <003801c6b709$af607240$9fab06d8@DGYPG541> References: <003801c6b709$af607240$9fab06d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <4gs5d29stsn7te34g5mg7me2lghqp9ge4m@4ax.com> On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:32:43 -0400, "al cann" wrote: > Simple one, I think. Can wading LVT's fire their MG's while they are >loaded with passengers? The question would be a great deal easier to answer if you gave us some clue to your thinking, Al. Specifically, why would you think the answer might be "no"? Replace "wading LVT" with "armoured halftrack", does the question make more sense -- or less? To directly answer your question in the most literal manner possible: "it depends". A Motion vehicle may never Prep Fire, so if this was the LVT's PFPh, and if it were in Motion, the answer would clearly be "no" (whether there were passengers or not). If the LVT were under Recall (for any reason) and it were the PFPh, the answer would again be "no" (again, irrespective of passengers). If the LVT is BU, then the answer again must be "no", and again the presence of passengers is irrelevant. Under any other circumstance that occurs to me, the answer is "of course", I would think. But there might be some particular rule that you're worried about that I have overlooked; I'm certainly no "amphibious assault" expert. (The cardinal rule to remember: LVT are not LC! There are large chunks of Chapter G that can be ignored when playing BRT, because no scenario or CG in that game features a single LC.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 00:56:05 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:56:05 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's In-Reply-To: <22fac23d0608042012x1076228q3182e3bfc5d0b4a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <003801c6b709$af607240$9fab06d8@DGYPG541> <4gs5d29stsn7te34g5mg7me2lghqp9ge4m@4ax.com> <22fac23d0608042012x1076228q3182e3bfc5d0b4a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57j8d2huslr6d3glbdpr3bbb7c2uqp7jmo@4ax.com> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:12:18 -0600, "Denis Dimick" wrote: >LVT's can button up? By default, any AFV with an Inherent Crew must be either BU or CE (D5.2; there are a handful of exceptions, e.g., the British Carriers, which are always CE). I don't recall reading anything to suggest that LVT are included in those exceptions. Certainly there is no "always CE" note applicable to the counters. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From geb3 at inter.net Sat Aug 5 08:42:53 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 00:42:53 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] T6 - The Dead of Winter Message-ID: Hey, gang, it's the 1st Sunday of the month so that means ASL in Yokohama. Comrade Chairman Chang Dong-Il and I have selected this old horse for our morning matchup. Since I'm arriving first I took Hans on defense. Haven't played this yet, but a while ago someone cautioned me against this baby, saying that if the Russians bogged a single tank in the snow the game was pretty much over. Is this the consensus? If so, does the Russian balance (red Ger ELR 4->3) make up for it at all? Should also confirm that even though Stielgr 41 is termed a HEAT round, it's availabilty is the "A4^1" on the back of the counter and the base TK# of 10 for this ammo is found on the APCR/APDS table and the APCR range modifiers apply (still a very unlikely frontal kill even on a T34 at close range). Dice begin rolling in 9 hours. Hope to see some comments from you fellas by the time I wake up. Cheers! - G From cduke at intelnett.com Sat Aug 5 10:25:42 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:25:42 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge hindrance Message-ID: <000701c6b8b4$2d901840$661ea8c0@Duke> Bridges are not mentioned as inherent terrain in B.6, or as far as I can tell, elsewhere. Does this mean that for their hindrance to apply, the LOS has to touch the bridge depiction? From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 11:27:12 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:27:12 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge hindrance In-Reply-To: <000701c6b8b4$2d901840$661ea8c0@Duke> References: <000701c6b8b4$2d901840$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <2b8228f00608051127g137dac81jc68a7857f480f792@mail.gmail.com> Yes. On 8/5/06, Charles Duke wrote: > Bridges are not mentioned as inherent terrain in B.6, or as far as I can > tell, elsewhere. Does this mean that for their hindrance to apply, the LOS > has to touch the bridge depiction? > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From johncmeyers at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 11:48:04 2006 From: johncmeyers at gmail.com (John Meyers) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:48:04 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <3f5a344e0608020535q570fca79j41c761d2c93384f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f5a344e0608012041l44df16dbr38c9ff7c242fb25f@mail.gmail.com> <3f5a344e0608020535q570fca79j41c761d2c93384f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f5a344e0608051148s1838f5cal86377a4e745e1be@mail.gmail.com> For some reason this never made it onto the list. So let's try it again. On 8/2/06, John Meyers wrote: > On 8/2/06, Bruce Probst wrote: > > >P6-7, The Commisar Dialectric, or, It's Our Party and You'll Die if > > >You Have To, by Bruce Probst. > > > > Oh I do hope that's a typo on your part, John. It should be "dialectic", not > > "dialectric". > > Sorry for messing up the title of your piece Bruce (subconscious EE > mistake?). On the bright side, MMP got it right! > > John From rjmosher at hughes.net Sat Aug 5 14:54:18 2006 From: rjmosher at hughes.net (ron mosher) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:54:18 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <3f5a344e0608051148s1838f5cal86377a4e745e1be@mail.gmail.com > References: <3f5a344e0608012041l44df16dbr38c9ff7c242fb25f@mail.gmail.com> <3f5a344e0608020535q570fca79j41c761d2c93384f3@mail.gmail.com> <3f5a344e0608051148s1838f5cal86377a4e745e1be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060805165353.01b60958@hughes.net> At 01:48 PM 8/5/2006, John Meyers wrote: >So let's try it again. yep another test..just mov along.... ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 15:18:28 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:18:28 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Bridge hindrance In-Reply-To: <000701c6b8b4$2d901840$661ea8c0@Duke> References: <000701c6b8b4$2d901840$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <026ad25p487fviq67qc8bfpficnji3a77g@4ax.com> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:25:42 -0600, Charles Duke wrote: >Bridges are not mentioned as inherent terrain in B.6, or as far as I can >tell, elsewhere. Does this mean that for their hindrance to apply, the LOS >has to touch the bridge depiction? Depends. If we're talking about a *printed* bridge, yes. If we're talking about a bridge *counter*, no. This is stated quite clearly in B6.2. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From rjmosher at hughes.net Sat Aug 5 15:10:25 2006 From: rjmosher at hughes.net (ron mosher) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:10:25 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] J7 Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060805171025.02094cb0@hughes.net> At 01:48 PM 8/5/2006, John Meyers wrote: >For some reason this never made it onto the list. This is a test...move along..nothing for u here.... ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 15:27:57 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:27:57 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] T6 - The Dead of Winter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 00:42:53 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Haven't played this yet, but a while ago someone cautioned me against this baby, saying that >if the Russians bogged a single tank in the snow the game was pretty much over. Is this the consensus? Dunno about that. It's a game that hangs on a couple of crucial DR. Whoever rolls better will win. In that sense it's "balanced" but I don't know that it's especially interesting. Still, if you've never played it before it's a nice quick introduction to Extreme Winter rules etc. >Should also confirm that even though Stielgr 41 is termed a HEAT round, it's availabilty is the >"A4^1" on the back of the counter "A" stands for APCR, not HEAT. Different type of ammunition. HEAT (any sort of HEAT) is only available from May '42 for the Germans, so is NA for this scenario. >if you look at the HEAT To Kill table, there is no 37mm caliber in any of the columns. Would you care to place a wager on that, sir? Or perhaps you would rather invest in a new pair of reading glasses. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From geb3 at inter.net Sat Aug 5 16:41:53 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 08:41:53 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] T6 - The Dead of Winter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, Jesus, it's way over on the right at 26! Never would have thought! Thanks, Bruce. - G -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst at netspace.net.au] Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:28 AM To: George Bates Cc: ASL Mailing List Subject: Re: [Aslml] T6 - The Dead of Winter On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 00:42:53 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Haven't played this yet, but a while ago someone cautioned me against this baby, saying that >if the Russians bogged a single tank in the snow the game was pretty much over. Is this the consensus? Dunno about that. It's a game that hangs on a couple of crucial DR. Whoever rolls better will win. In that sense it's "balanced" but I don't know that it's especially interesting. Still, if you've never played it before it's a nice quick introduction to Extreme Winter rules etc. >Should also confirm that even though Stielgr 41 is termed a HEAT round, it's availabilty is the >"A4^1" on the back of the counter "A" stands for APCR, not HEAT. Different type of ammunition. HEAT (any sort of HEAT) is only available from May '42 for the Germans, so is NA for this scenario. >if you look at the HEAT To Kill table, there is no 37mm caliber in any of the columns. Would you care to place a wager on that, sir? Or perhaps you would rather invest in a new pair of reading glasses. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From reamees at earthlink.net Sat Aug 5 16:49:52 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:49:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke Message-ID: <11835809.1154821793036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> At the start of a movement phase if a buttoned-up AFV wishes to use his smoke discharger without the extra +1 DR modifier, can the attacker declare and execute the following..."my AFV is going CE and at the same time I am attempting to use my smoke discharger." This would give the defender no chance to fire while the attacker calmly opens his hatch which normally requires a MP expenditure. Is it right that the attacker in this case can combine the unbuttoning and smoke discharger roll for 1 MP (assuming he get smoke)? What happens if he gacks the roll? By the way, for you treadheads, why is it easier to pop smoke while CE? The tanker either loaded the smoke candles before the battle or he didn't. I do not think he needs to pull a lanyard. What gives? "Zadra" (ground pounder) From dreenstra at comcast.net Sat Aug 5 18:01:05 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 21:01:05 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke In-Reply-To: <11835809.1154821793036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060806010110.748F91BB72@che.dreamhost.com> Hey Ray, Changing BU/CE status isn't MP dependent (had a similar question come up in our local gaming group a few weeks ago), so what you described is perfectly legal and would prevent any DFF from "intervening" on the change in CE/BU status (only could be declared on the actual sD attempt, if successful). Similarly, it would also be legal for a player to declare, "stop for the 13th MP , go CE and take a BFF shot at the rear of your Panther" as the Stop, change in CE/BU status and BFF shot are essentially all combined into one MP and don't require separate MP expenditures. HtH, Dave Reenstra > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] > On Behalf Of Raymond Woloszyn > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:50 PM > To: aslml at lists.aslml.net > Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke > > At the start of a movement phase if a buttoned-up AFV wishes to use > his smoke discharger without the extra +1 DR modifier, can the attacker > declare and execute the following..."my AFV is going CE and at the same > time I am attempting to use my smoke discharger." This would give the > defender no chance to fire while the attacker calmly opens his hatch which > normally requires a MP expenditure. Is it right that the attacker in > this case can combine the unbuttoning and smoke discharger roll for 1 MP > (assuming he get smoke)? What happens if he gacks the roll? > > By the way, for you treadheads, why is it easier to pop smoke while > CE? The tanker either loaded the smoke candles before the battle or he > didn't. I do not think he needs to pull a lanyard. What gives? > > "Zadra" (ground pounder) > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From S.Eckhart at cox.net Sat Aug 5 20:09:44 2006 From: S.Eckhart at cox.net (Steve Eckhart) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 22:09:44 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] FW: 2006 Magecon South Scenario Lineup Message-ID: <003a01c6b905$c4655c70$0200a8c0@NBN1266> -----Original Message----- From: Lee Conner [mailto:Gamer75LL at neb.rr.com] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: 2006 Magecon South Scenario Lineup Guys, Below is Scenario List for the 2006 MAGECON South ASL Tournament. Numbers following title are ROAR record (Axis-Allies) at end of July. We will have a salon in the Marina Inn (not the convention center) also for Friday night open gaming, and will have a team scenario Sunday night for anyone still around for ASL. MAGE is not sending out the pre-reg flyers this year. Convention info is at http://mage-page.com. Hope to see you there, Lee Round 1 0800 OA16 Surrender or Die 18-21 PBP29 Block at Anui 4-4 TT6 Fruit & Nuts 10-9 SP115 Five Pound Prize 34-33 SP125 Nunshigum 7-7 Round 2 1330 SP126 Malignant Mahrattas 11-15 A60 Totsugeki 142-109 J43 3rd RTR in Rain 82-87 SP96 Husum Hotfoot 37-37 OB4 Motoring to Mogilev 9-11 Round 3 1900 NFNH-12 Grim Reapers 5-5 CH58 Death Ride 7-7 Ost1 Stalin's Shadow 0-0 HG4 Cohort & Phalanx 5-8 A28 The Professionals 48-44 Round 4 0900 TAC54 In the Name of Rome 20-14 J32 Panzer Graveyard 62-60 GD4 The Road to Lyon 8-8 CH167 The Warlord's Estate 2-1 SP108 Searing Soltou 16-15 Round 5 1400 OB9 Oriola Force 7-7 121 End Station Budapest 6-8 CH34 The Lighthouse 27-25 A103 Mayhem in Manila 61-68 A Guards Counterattack 1,560,437-1,416,519 From craig.p.walters at monsanto.com Sat Aug 5 21:36:41 2006 From: craig.p.walters at monsanto.com (WALTERS, CRAIG P [AG/1000]) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 23:36:41 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke Message-ID: <633248C3A654B740B4C2FFD67A42C6CAB0322B@NA1000EXM02.na.ds.monsanto.com> IMO this is one of those "fog of war" things. It is no harder to fire the smoke BU, but due to the restricted ability to see while BU the commander simply didn't know smoke would be useful at that moment, or fired it at the wrong time, or into a completely useless position. For those that have not done so, there is a HUGE difference between what and how far away you see/understand things BU & CE. Craig LTC AR RET -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Raymond Woloszyn Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:50 PM To: aslml at lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke At the start of a movement phase if a buttoned-up AFV wishes to use his smoke discharger without the extra +1 DR modifier, can the attacker declare and execute the following..."my AFV is going CE and at the same time I am attempting to use my smoke discharger." This would give the defender no chance to fire while the attacker calmly opens his hatch which normally requires a MP expenditure. Is it right that the attacker in this case can combine the unbuttoning and smoke discharger roll for 1 MP (assuming he get smoke)? What happens if he gacks the roll? By the way, for you treadheads, why is it easier to pop smoke while CE? The tanker either loaded the smoke candles before the battle or he didn't. I do not think he needs to pull a lanyard. What gives? "Zadra" (ground pounder) _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited. All e-mails and attachments sent and received are subject to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient of this e-mail is solely responsible for checking for the presence of "Viruses" or other "Malware". Monsanto accepts no liability for any damage caused by any such code transmitted by or accompanying this e-mail or any attachment. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 6 02:13:07 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 19:13:07 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke In-Reply-To: <11835809.1154821793036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11835809.1154821793036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:49:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > At the start of a movement phase if a buttoned-up AFV wishes to use his smoke discharger without the extra +1 DR modifier, can the attacker declare and execute the following..."my AFV is going CE and at the same time I am attempting to use my smoke discharger." This would give the defender no chance to fire while the attacker calmly opens his hatch which normally requires a MP expenditure. No MP expenditure is required for a BU/CE change. It may be declared at any point during the MPh/APh, and it simply happens (subject to some restrictions which are specified in D5.33). >Is it right that the attacker in this case can combine the unbuttoning and smoke discharger roll for 1 MP (assuming he get smoke)? Certainly. >What happens if he gacks the roll? He is CE, but has not placed any Smoke (and has not expended any MP). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From jpcole at westnet.com.au Sun Aug 6 03:21:26 2006 From: jpcole at westnet.com.au (Jon Cole) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:21:26 +0800 Subject: [Aslml] VASL down? Message-ID: <000701c6b942$14ce43c0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Anyone having problems right as this moment Cheers Jon From reamees at earthlink.net Sun Aug 6 04:07:04 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 07:07:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Popping" Smoke Redux Message-ID: <18646595.1154862424821.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for the good responses. I missed that about CE/BU not being MP dependent. Knowing it is not makes everything clear in this situation. Thank you, Craig (hmmm, better say sir) for your reasoning on why it is easier to get/place smoke while CE. That makes sense. I afraid my only real experience in mobile warfare was careening around in Germany in an ASA communications van during Reforgers in the 70's. We were generally BU to keep the bad weather and the first sergeant out. "Zadra" (502nd ASA Group - Flak Kasserne Augsburg) From rockgheba at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 08:58:03 2006 From: rockgheba at gmail.com (Mario Nadalini) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:58:03 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Italian ASL tournament - all ABS!!! Message-ID: <63bc1b0f0608060858w27e046bcuc95fe15fcf32ee89@mail.gmail.com> Dear Listers, I'm writing this mail to remember you of the ItASLia tournament, that will take place in Verona (Italy) from 09/08 to 09/10. Every relevant information can be found at www.aslitaia.org, or you can email to itaslia at gmail.com. Come to Italy to play ASL: you'll not regret it! Here are the ABS for the scenarios: J41 By Ourselves G3 G2 + German reinforcements enter on turn 4 G2 The Germans to win may also ammass > = 12 CVP instead of only 10 CVP G1 The Germans to win may also ammass > = 11 CVP instead of only 10 CVP N1 The Norwegians must control at game end > = 18 building locations in board 22 to win N2 The Norwegians must control at game end > = 20 building locations in board 22 to win N3 N2 + lower Norwegian SAN to 2 SP64 Valour of the Bou G3 G2 + add a 2' mrt to the British OB G2 G1 + exchange the MMG for a LMG G1 exchange the 8-1 leader for a 8-0 B1 add a 248 to the Germans in board 35 B3 B2 AND add a 8-0 to the Germans in board 35 B2 add a 468 to the Germans in board 35 AP 12 Creams of the Crop G3 G2 + the Russians add an ATR to the initial OB G2 G1 + the Russians add a T60 M40 to the reinforcement group G1 The Germans to win must control > = three board 46 building location on/between hexrows T-FF more than the Russian at game end R1 replace the German 9-1 with a 9-2 R2 R1 + add a 467 to the German OB R3 R2 + lower Russian SAN to 3 DB49 Wetlet J3 J2 + exchange 3 x 457 for 3 x 458 J2 J1 + delete one 238 J1 delete 4 x ? B1 add a 238 B2 B1 + add a 347 B3 B2 + exchange 3 x 347 for 3 x 447 J98 Lend-Lease Attack G3 G2 + delete PSK G2 G1 + delete SSR 4 (no HIP HS/SW/SMC ) G1 add a Russian LMG and exchange a 7-0 for an 8-1 R1 add a 9-1 AL to German OB R2 R1 + add a 467 and delete Guards status R3 R2 + delete last sentence of SSR 6 (no Gyro's) GD4 the Road to Lyon G3 G2 + shorten the scenario to 6,5 turns G2 G1 + add a 457 to the French OB G1 delete an ATR and a mrt to the German OB + add 4 X ? to the French OB F1 add a LMG to the German OB F2 add a MMG to the German OB F3 F2 + add a 8-1 Armor Leader to the German OB A93 Faugh a' ballagh G3 G2 + exchange 2 X 467 for 2 X 447 G2 delete a German MMG from the OB G1 delete a German LMG from the OB B1 add 4 X ? to the German OB B2 B1 + Germans may HIP a Squad equivalent (and any SMC/SW stacked with it) B3 B2 + add 1 X 247 to the German OB 77 Le Herisson G3 G2 + add the French doesn't suffer ammo shortage G2 G1 + add a LMG to the French OB G1 exchange the French 7-0 for a 8-1 F1 exchange a German LMG for a German MMG F2 F1 + add a 9-1 AL to German OB F3 F2 + add 1 X 247 and a 8-0 leader to German OB A70 Wintergewitter G3 G2 + add 1 X ATR to at-start Russian OB G2 G1 + exchange the German MMG for a German LMG G1 add 6 X ? counters to at-Start Russian OB R1 exchange the German 9-1 AL for a 9-2 AL R2 add a 9-2 AL to German OB R3 add a 10-2 AL to German OB T9 Niscemi Biscari Highway A3 A2 + lower American SAN to 3 A2 A1 + delete one Baz from American OB A1 delete one 747 from American OB G1 add 4 X ? to American OB G2 G1 + the US may HIP a Squad equivalent (and any SMC/SW stacked with it) G3 G2 + exchange the German 8-1 for a second German 8-0 SP115 five pound prize B3 B2 + add a 9-1 AL to German Turn 3 reinforcements B2 B1 + add a 348 and a PSK to German OB B1 exchange 2 X 548 for 2 X 658 and add 2 X ? G1 exchange 3 X 457 for 3 X 458 and add 2 X ? G2 G1 + exchange a LMG for a MMG in the British OB G3 G2 + add a Piat to British OB PBP22 Morire in bellezza (The spelling is not correct on the scenario card! Trust us!) as for scenario card LSSH28 last drop of blood G3 G2 + add one L3/35 Tankette to Turn 3 Italian OB. G2 G1 + exchange the German 8-1 Leader for a 8-0 Leader. G1 Delete the German 2-3-8 HS from the OB. I1 Make hexrows A-H unplayable for this scenario and the Germans enter mounted on 41I6. I2 I1 + change Italian setup instruction to state within three hexes of 41V5. I3 I2 + exchange Kfz 1 for a SPW 250/1 in German OB. ITASLIA SSR: Voluntarily abandonment of vehicles is NA A118 the Waterhole A3 A2 and Delete 8-0 from U.S. turn 3 reinforcements A2 A1 and Remove 2x"?" from U.S. OB A1 Add 1xLMG to Japanese OB J1 Add 2x"?" to U.S. OB J2 J1 and exchange the U.S. 7-0 for a 8-0 J3 J2 and add 1x337 to U.S. OB. KE 6 Rock Steady A3 A2 and delete an HMG from the American OB A2 A1 and exchange the German dm MMG with a dm HMG A1 in the Victory Condictions, change "more VP" to " an equivalent number -or more - VP" G1 exchange the German 8-0 for a German 7-0 G2 G1 and add an American 8-0 to the American at start OB G3 G2 and lower Italian ELR to 1 -- Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it. Richard P. Feynman -- From watkins.bill at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 10:48:14 2006 From: watkins.bill at verizon.net (Bill Watkins) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 13:48:14 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] [aslml] ASLOK Message-ID: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, or is it restricted to super experts only???? Bill Watkins From chas.argent at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 10:51:58 2006 From: chas.argent at gmail.com (Chas Argent) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:51:58 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] [aslml] ASLOK In-Reply-To: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> References: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> Message-ID: Here's the ASLOK web site http://www.aslok.org/ which, incidentally, is the first thing to come up on a Google search. Welcome to the internet ;-) Regards, Chas On 8/6/06, Bill Watkins wrote: > So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, or is it > restricted to super experts only???? > > Bill Watkins > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com From damavs at alltel.net Sun Aug 6 11:05:13 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:05:13 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASLOK In-Reply-To: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> References: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060806135404.01bb1b28@alltel.net> Bill Watkins queries: >So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, That would be me. You should be able to find most of the basic info at www.aslok.org but feel free to send any questions directly to me. All of the info to pre-reg is at: http://www.aslok.org/prereg.html > or is it restricted to super experts only???? Hardly - ASLOK caters to players of every level. While ASLOK generally draws a large number of "super experts" last year saw a "record" (at least as far as my memory serves) number of "newbies" who signed up for Manuevers. So whether you're an ASL expert, or a Newbie who could use some tutelage at the knee of "Wild" Bill ( http://www.aslok.org/maneuvers.html ) or somewhere in between, we'll have ASL aplenty for you come October... Hope you can make it... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From watkins.bill at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 11:48:40 2006 From: watkins.bill at verizon.net (Bill Watkins) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:48:40 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] [aslml] ASLOK In-Reply-To: References: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44D63988.10302@verizon.net> Sad to say, I did a search on one of the gaming sites and got the big Zero! Interesting that a bigtime gaming site has never heard of ASLOK but Google has. Thanks for the info! Bill Watkins Chas Argent wrote: > Here's the ASLOK web site http://www.aslok.org/ which, incidentally, > is the first thing to come up on a Google search. > > Welcome to the internet ;-) > > Regards, > Chas > > On 8/6/06, Bill Watkins wrote: > >> So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, or is it >> restricted to super experts only???? >> >> Bill Watkins >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aslml mailing list >> aslml at lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net >> > > From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Sun Aug 6 12:24:04 2006 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 21:24:04 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] [aslml] ASLOK References: <44D62B5E.1040409@verizon.net> <44D63988.10302@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000401c6b98d$e15725b0$0300000a@posh> Hi Bill Always, and I mean always! use Google :) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Watkins" To: "Chas Argent" Cc: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] [aslml] ASLOK > Sad to say, I did a search on one of the gaming sites and got the big > Zero! Interesting that a bigtime gaming site has never heard of ASLOK > but Google has. > > Thanks for the info! > > Bill Watkins > > Chas Argent wrote: > > > Here's the ASLOK web site http://www.aslok.org/ which, incidentally, > > is the first thing to come up on a Google search. > > > > Welcome to the internet ;-) > > > > Regards, > > Chas > > > > On 8/6/06, Bill Watkins wrote: > > > >> So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, or is it > >> restricted to super experts only???? > >> > >> Bill Watkins > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> aslml mailing list > >> aslml at lists.aslml.net > >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From scott.holst at us.army.mil Sun Aug 6 13:03:50 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 15:03:50 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] ASLOK Message-ID: <4e54744e7ccd.4e7ccd4e5474@us.army.mil> Hi- Bret- Will there be a desert mini? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bret & Julie Hildebran Date: Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:05 pm Subject: Re: [Aslml] ASLOK > Bill Watkins queries: > >So, in case I'm able to travel, who do I contact about ASLOK, > > That would be me. You should be able to find most of the basic > info > at www.aslok.org but feel free to send any questions directly to me. > > All of the info to pre-reg is at: http://www.aslok.org/prereg.html > > > or is it restricted to super experts only???? > > Hardly - ASLOK caters to players of every level. While ASLOK > generally draws a large number of "super experts" last year saw a > "record" (at least as far as my memory serves) number of "newbies" > who signed up for Manuevers. So whether you're an ASL expert, or > a > Newbie who could use some tutelage at the knee of "Wild" Bill ( > http://www.aslok.org/maneuvers.html ) or somewhere in between, > we'll > have ASL aplenty for you come October... > > Hope you can make it... > > Bret Hildebran > damavs at alltel.net > www.aslok.org > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From damavs at alltel.net Sun Aug 6 13:17:58 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:17:58 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASLOK In-Reply-To: <4e54744e7ccd.4e7ccd4e5474@us.army.mil> References: <4e54744e7ccd.4e7ccd4e5474@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060806161307.01da9db8@alltel.net> scott.holst at us.army.mil wrote: >Will there be a desert mini? No desert mini this year. You're not the first to inquire though so I think you can count on a desert mini returning for ASLOK XXII. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sun Aug 6 16:06:32 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 01:06:32 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer Message-ID: The note on page H146 (AOO) states that the Hungarian Turan II was an up-gunned version of the Turan I, when the 40L was found to be ineffective vs Soviet armour in jan -43. BUT The Turan I is armed with a 40L, giving a TK# of 10, multiple hits, and ROF 2. The Turan II is armed with 75*, giving a TK# of 10, and ROF 1. True, at ranges of 25+ (hexes) the 40L has a harder time hitting, and also have a -1TK compared to the 75*. The problem is, the Turan II has a depletion# of 6 for AP, and no Heat or APCR. So, given the stats in ASL, the Turan I is completely superior to the Turna II in a battle vs Soviet armour. Did the Hungarians really install a gun in the II version just as crappy at shooting enemy tanks as the old one, is the chapter H note in error, or is the stats on the counters of these tanks incorrect in ASL? Janusz From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 17:25:41 2006 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 20:25:41 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c6b9b8$044cc960$2f01a8c0@newscratch> >Did the Hungarians really install a gun in the II >version just as crappy at shooting enemy tanks as >the old one, Yes, but note that the Turan II has smoke available. The plan was to cause the Russian tankers cancer with the smoke. And while they were coughing away, the Turbans would retreat another ten miles. From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Sun Aug 6 17:30:56 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060807003056.25813.qmail@web34514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wouldn't be the first time a design made to fill a probably ill-worded specification turned out to not be what was wanted....and don't rule out the possiblity that somebody's uncle had an interest in a firm that only made 75* guns. --- Janusz Maxe wrote: > The note on page H146 (AOO) states that the Hungarian Turan II was an up-gunned version of the > Turan I, when the 40L was found to be ineffective vs Soviet armour in jan -43. > > BUT > > The Turan I is armed with a 40L, giving a TK# of 10, multiple hits, and ROF 2. > The Turan II is armed with 75*, giving a TK# of 10, and ROF 1. > > True, at ranges of 25+ (hexes) the 40L has a harder time hitting, and also have a -1TK compared > to the 75*. The problem is, the Turan II has a depletion# of 6 for AP, and no Heat or APCR. > So, given the stats in ASL, the Turan I is completely superior to the Turna II in a battle vs > Soviet armour. > Did the Hungarians really install a gun in the II version just as crappy at shooting enemy tanks > as the old one, is the chapter H note in error, or is the stats on the counters of these tanks > incorrect in ASL? > Janusz > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From robertthepastor at juno.com Sun Aug 6 20:00:27 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 20:00:27 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Spuddie Time Message-ID: <20060806.210441.26092.2.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Lee Conner wrote (and Steve Eckhart forwarded) .... "Round 5 1400 A Guards Counterattack 1,560,437-1,416,519" That is funny. I wonder how many people missed it! (Yes, some of us really do read what is posted!) THEN .......... Mario Nadalini wrote ... "PBP22 Morire in bellezza (The spelling is not correct on the scenario card! Trust us!)" Even funnier! Just does to show you, ASL is truly world wide! Take care, Robert "groking English for almost 45 years" Hammond From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 6 22:54:22 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 15:54:22 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's In-Reply-To: <22fac23d0608061650y64bfef47yf4acefb0898e1c00@mail.gmail.com> References: <003801c6b709$af607240$9fab06d8@DGYPG541> <4gs5d29stsn7te34g5mg7me2lghqp9ge4m@4ax.com> <22fac23d0608042012x1076228q3182e3bfc5d0b4a4@mail.gmail.com> <57j8d2huslr6d3glbdpr3bbb7c2uqp7jmo@4ax.com> <22fac23d0608061650y64bfef47yf4acefb0898e1c00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:50:41 -0600, "Denis Dimick" wrote: >I find that odd, IIRC, LVT3's had a small house that the crew used to man >while driving the LVT, but the riders where always exposed to over head >fire. Well, that's an interesting tidbit of trivia. However, you should keep in mind the following points: 1) If you read US Vehicle Note 51, you'd notice that it explicitly mentions that the LVT3 is not represented in the game. 2) Being CE doesn't necessarily mean having your head out in the open, wind blowing through your hair. It means "exposed to fire". Trucks usually have a "small house where the crew sits while driving", too, but it doesn't give them any protection. It's possible that the crew cabin of an LVT -- if it was even fitted onto other models -- doesn't actually offer any significant armoured protection (in ASL terms) -- at least nothing that isn't already represented by the +2 CE DRM. Nobody is required to explain why the LVT have the stats they do, although people are free to speculate. But you should always remember that ASL does not attempt to simulate every bolt, hinge and rubber duck that may or may not have been fitted to every particular type of vehicle. Approximations and abstractions are the key words to remember. 3) The original question was asking about how the vehicles work *in the game*, using the *game rules*. What things were like "in reality" don't enter into those discussions. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From geb3 at inter.net Sun Aug 6 23:07:45 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:07:45 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] RE2: LVT's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bruce, is that smoke coming out of your ears? - G -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Bruce Probst Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 2:54 PM To: Denis Dimick Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] LVT's On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:50:41 -0600, "Denis Dimick" wrote: >I find that odd, IIRC, LVT3's had a small house that the crew used to man >while driving the LVT, but the riders where always exposed to over head >fire. Well, that's an interesting tidbit of trivia. However, you should keep in mind the following points: 1) If you read US Vehicle Note 51, you'd notice that it explicitly mentions that the LVT3 is not represented in the game. 2) Being CE doesn't necessarily mean having your head out in the open, wind blowing through your hair. It means "exposed to fire". Trucks usually have a "small house where the crew sits while driving", too, but it doesn't give them any protection. It's possible that the crew cabin of an LVT -- if it was even fitted onto other models -- doesn't actually offer any significant armoured protection (in ASL terms) -- at least nothing that isn't already represented by the +2 CE DRM. Nobody is required to explain why the LVT have the stats they do, although people are free to speculate. But you should always remember that ASL does not attempt to simulate every bolt, hinge and rubber duck that may or may not have been fitted to every particular type of vehicle. Approximations and abstractions are the key words to remember. 3) The original question was asking about how the vehicles work *in the game*, using the *game rules*. What things were like "in reality" don't enter into those discussions. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 02:40:45 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:40:45 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] RE2: LVT's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:07:45 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Bruce, is that smoke coming out of your ears? ? Sorry if I gave the impression of being "steamed", that was not my intent. Some other things have made me grumpy over the last few days, perhaps some of that came through. I was just trying to make my points clear. Apologies again. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Mon Aug 7 03:25:51 2006 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 06:25:51 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c6ba0b$dbfaa140$2f01a8c0@newscratch> >Nobody is required to explain why the LVT have the stats >they do, although people are free to speculate. But you >should always remember that ASL does not attempt to simulate >every bolt, hinge and rubber duck that may or may not have >been fitted to every particular type of vehicle. >Approximations and abstractions are the key words to remember. Actually, MMP is about to change the 76* MTR of the Commonwealth to 81* because of speculation such as this. As Bruce Propst put it: >However, if research didn't turn up new and surprising information >occasionally it would hardly be worth doing. I'd say, go wherever >the facts take you. From geb3 at inter.net Mon Aug 7 03:37:43 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:37:43 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] RE3: LVT's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, I was enjoying the rant. 8-) I got a visual of a large yellow rubber duck bolted on the prow of a DUKW, with an accompaniment by Ernie of Sesame Street. Cheers! - G -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst at netspace.net.au] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:41 PM To: George Bates Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: RE2: LVT's On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:07:45 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Bruce, is that smoke coming out of your ears? ? Sorry if I gave the impression of being "steamed", that was not my intent. Some other things have made me grumpy over the last few days, perhaps some of that came through. I was just trying to make my points clear. Apologies again. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Mon Aug 7 06:10:15 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 06:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] RE2: LVT's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060807131015.25764.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, but I thought I saw his nostrils were flaring just a bit.... Jazz --- George Bates wrote: > Bruce, is that smoke coming out of your ears? > > - G From yal88 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 7 10:41:52 2006 From: yal88 at hotmail.com (x x) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:41:52 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer In-Reply-To: <20060807003056.25813.qmail@web34514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Uncle Joe's Hacksaws ... Converting German 75L to Hungarian Specs since 1942! Mika >From: Jazz >To: Janusz Maxe , aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net >Subject: Re: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT) > >Wouldn't be the first time a design made to fill a probably ill-worded >specification turned out to >not be what was wanted....and don't rule out the possiblity that somebody's >uncle had an interest >in a firm that only made 75* guns. > >--- Janusz Maxe wrote: > > > The note on page H146 (AOO) states that the Hungarian Turan II was an >up-gunned version of the > > Turan I, when the 40L was found to be ineffective vs Soviet armour in >jan -43. > > > > BUT > > > > The Turan I is armed with a 40L, giving a TK# of 10, multiple hits, and >ROF 2. > > The Turan II is armed with 75*, giving a TK# of 10, and ROF 1. > > > > True, at ranges of 25+ (hexes) the 40L has a harder time hitting, and >also have a -1TK compared > > to the 75*. The problem is, the Turan II has a depletion# of 6 for AP, >and no Heat or APCR. > > So, given the stats in ASL, the Turan I is completely superior to the >Turna II in a battle vs > > Soviet armour. > > Did the Hungarians really install a gun in the II version just as crappy >at shooting enemy tanks > > as the old one, is the chapter H note in error, or is the stats on the >counters of these tanks > > incorrect in ASL? > > Janusz > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Aug 7 10:42:28 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:42:28 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published Message-ID: There have been several discussions here on the ASLML that MMP would no longer publish scenarios without extensive research and historic sources. That a scenario like Hill 621, being more a representation of a whole military operation than a local battle between battalions sized units, wouldn't be aproved of by MMP today. Then AOO shows up. It contains several scenarios that seem to be based rather generic information of the operation. Take 115 "Huns of steel". Were the bridgehead really only 500 meters deep? Could tanks give direct fire support into the battle from the far side of the Don? 116 "The sixth blow" is even named after an operation, and the Carpathian mountains is the closest geographic specification given. All units are "elements of" a division or a tank brigade. I don't write this to accuse the designers with poor research. It just shows that MMP will still print a fun scenario when they see one, not alway insisting on the historic detail even close to that shown in the journal 2 article "Can you ever be sure", giving us a new version of "It's about time". Janusz From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 12:04:54 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:04:54 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's In-Reply-To: <000301c6ba0b$dbfaa140$2f01a8c0@newscratch> References: <000301c6ba0b$dbfaa140$2f01a8c0@newscratch> Message-ID: On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 06:25:51 -0400, "Brian W" wrote: >>Nobody is required to explain why the LVT have the stats >>they do, although people are free to speculate. But you >>should always remember that ASL does not attempt to simulate >>every bolt, hinge and rubber duck that may or may not have >>been fitted to every particular type of vehicle. >>Approximations and abstractions are the key words to remember. > >Actually, MMP is about to change the 76* MTR of the Commonwealth to 81* >because of speculation such as this. As Bruce Propst put it: > >>However, if research didn't turn up new and surprising information >>occasionally it would hardly be worth doing. I'd say, go wherever >>the facts take you. My two statements are not contradictory. If someone is dissatisfied with the stats of a particular vehicle or weapon, *and can put their case to MMP convincingly*, more power to them. There is, however, considerable difference between "research that leads to a compelling argument for change" and "I read in a book somewhere that the Mk II Wombat had three spare tyres, and Chapter H completely fails to take that into account!". There's also difference between "I shall do the work and submit the research and arguments to MMP so that in future the Mk II Wombat shall be accurately represented in ASL!" and the rules one uses for the Mk II Wombat in the scenario that you're playing *right now*. Your opponent is probably not willing to wait that long for you to finish your turn. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 12:09:19 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:09:19 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:42:28 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Then AOO shows up. It contains several scenarios that seem to be based rather generic information of the operation. Just curious ... did you contact the designers of these scenarios personally and confirm that they did in fact design the scenario based on generic information? Or are you just wildly speculating? The "pedigree" of a scenario's research can lie hidden very easily. (My point is that just looking at the scenario card does not tell you anything about what went into the design.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Aug 7 12:42:16 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 21:42:16 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> Message-ID: I did write "that seem to be". If I've contacted the designers, I'd written "that are". If you compare the info and aftermath of 116 "The Sixth blow" and 117 "With tigers on their tail" there is a clear difference in detail provided. This leads me to belive that MMPs demand on historic accuracy may be a myth. OTOH, I know I may be wrong. Janusz ________________________________ From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst at netspace.net.au] Sent: Mon 2006-08-07 21:09 To: Janusz Maxe Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:42:28 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Then AOO shows up. It contains several scenarios that seem to be based rather generic information of the operation. Just curious ... did you contact the designers of these scenarios personally and confirm that they did in fact design the scenario based on generic information? Or are you just wildly speculating? The "pedigree" of a scenario's research can lie hidden very easily. (My point is that just looking at the scenario card does not tell you anything about what went into the design.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From daveolie at eastlink.ca Mon Aug 7 15:07:15 2006 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:07:15 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer Message-ID: <011201c6ba6e$4dd9b500$b679de18@SR1820NX> Janusz wrote: --------------------------------------- The note on page H146 (AOO) states that the Hungarian Turan II was an up-gunned version of the Turan I, when the 40L was found to be ineffective vs Soviet armour in jan -43. BUT The Turan I is armed with a 40L, giving a TK# of 10, multiple hits, and ROF 2. The Turan II is armed with 75*, giving a TK# of 10, and ROF 1. True, at ranges of 25+ (hexes) the 40L has a harder time hitting, and also have a -1TK compared to the 75*. The problem is, the Turan II has a depletion# of 6 for AP, and no Heat or APCR. So, given the stats in ASL, the Turan I is completely superior to the Turna II in a battle vs Soviet armour. Did the Hungarians really install a gun in the II version just as crappy at shooting enemy tanks as the old one, is the chapter H note in error, or is the stats on the counters of these tanks incorrect in ASL? ------------------------------------------ For a similar example of "one step forward, two steps back", have a look at the Italians. The M15/42 tank (Note 10) has a 47L gun (TK #11). But towards the end of the war the Italians were supplimenting and even replacing their M-series tanks with the Semoventi models M40, 41, and 42 (Notes 12 and 13), nearly all of which had a 75* gun (TK #10). At least the Semoventi have unlimited AP and the possibility of HEAT, but they also have B11. I can understand why you'd think this is an anomaly, but I think there were a number of factors involved in this that might not be apparent on the surface. First, the Italians wanted to put their 75/32 gun in the Semoventi M42 at least, but they weren't available in sufficient quantity. The Hungarians may have had a similar problem. Second, larger rounds are more effective over longer ranges, even if their muzzle velocities are lower. Most of the actual tank combat in WWII took place at much longer ranges than is typical in ASL. Also, I think most tank combat wargames have tended to over-emphasize armour penetration, since this is something that we have statistics on. But knocking out tanks was not all about penetration. Big, slow-moving rounds could also effectively knock out an enemy vehicle through suspension and track damage, jamming the turret traverse, blowing off hatches, and all the other things described in accounts as "external damage". Or by plain old demoralization. From my reading about the DTO, I think the British 25lbr. AP round is underrated in ASL, for example. David "unholey" Olie From scott.holst at us.army.mil Mon Aug 7 16:47:59 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:47:59 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] 3" MTR errata? Message-ID: <63352b631d65.631d6563352b@us.army.mil> Hi- Are the 3" MTR's being revised? Is new errata for the 3" MTR? Scott From dreenstra at comcast.net Mon Aug 7 17:07:16 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 20:07:16 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] 3" MTR errata? In-Reply-To: <63352b631d65.631d6563352b@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <20060808000717.4F59F1BB42@che.dreamhost.com> No actual errata that I've seen, just that sidebar embedded in the article on the Brits in Journal #7 that mentions the research done and the likelihood of revised counters to be released at some point. HtH, Dave Reenstra > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] > On Behalf Of scott.holst at us.army.mil > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:48 PM > To: ASL Mailing List > Subject: [Aslml] 3" MTR errata? > > > > Hi- > > Are the 3" MTR's being revised? Is new errata for the 3" MTR? > > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From scott.holst at us.army.mil Mon Aug 7 17:31:47 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:31:47 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] What version of ASL are you playing? Message-ID: <626c3162824d.62824d626c31@us.army.mil> Hi- Alot of changes, alot of confusion, and alot of complicated revisions to ASL is just not my cup of joe. Lets see; we now have the -1 Bridge TEM, this is really splitting the ASL community down the middle. Def. fire/ final fire with guns, from what I can gather with the murky threads over at SZO, it seems that if you fire and lose ROF with your ATG, you can now only IF vs the closest enemy unit. Did I read this correctly? And if so, now you can run a conscript squad up to the halpless ATG while your armor just breeze's on by the ATG, perhaps a hex or two away towards their VC or whatever they are doing. Hmmmmm, not good. Platoon Movement, yes the warp tactic was gamey, but so is VBM, Now its only a matter of time before the Rules committee changes VBM. Human Wave; Point and go, now its just a way to confusing rule in 2E to actually use. On the positive side, Wall Advantage actually is understandable and might be the only part of 2E I will port over to my 1E ASLRB. thoughts? Scott From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Mon Aug 7 18:22:11 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 01:22:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Routing and OBA Message-ID: Hi, If a broken unit is in a foxhole within an OBA Blast Area and it routs to an adjacent hex outside the Blast Area, does it take the FFE as it exits the foxhole before going into the next hex? C1.51 uses such enlightening, but undefined, terms as "changing positions within a Blast Area hex". Is a routing unit changing positions within the Blast Area if it combines the MF to exit the foxhole with the cost of the next hex entered. Chuck From brian.roundhill at epsiia.com Mon Aug 7 19:01:54 2006 From: brian.roundhill at epsiia.com (Brian Roundhill) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 21:01:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] What version of ASL are you playing? In-Reply-To: <626c3162824d.62824d626c31@us.army.mil> References: <626c3162824d.62824d626c31@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <1407.71.145.187.172.1155002514.squirrel@webmail.epsiia.com> I play with the most current rules in my rulebook. As soon as I get new rules, they go into my rulebook. If my opponent has newer rules, I use those rules. Makes life a lot easier because my opponent and I are quickly on the same set of rules. And for the most part, I think the rules changes have been for the better of the game. More complication, but less leeway and room for abuse. -- Brian Roundhill From cduke at intelnett.com Mon Aug 7 20:21:28 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:21:28 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] What version of ASL are you playing? References: <626c3162824d.62824d626c31@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <003501c6ba99$bcb292a0$661ea8c0@Duke> I have v.2 but I want to keep it in pristine condition, so I still use v.1 a lot. I carry it around, take it to places etc. which I don't dare do with my Preciousssss v.2. Up to now I have actually used v.1 more for instant consultations than v.2 (aside from wanting to conserve v.2, it is more unwieldy). I was even planning to have v.1 hardcovered (since it will never change). I had figured that most rules were still the same, but I've learned the hard way that there are new rules scattered all over v.2, even in stuff you could consider basic. Problem is, opponents come up with v.2 rules and catch you with your pants down. ("Sorry pal but you didn't actually hit my tank because see rule 34521.89, and now comes my devastating return fire!") So v.1 will have to go into deserved retirement. It's only v.2 from now on. Charles P.S.: Since when -1 tem on bridges? Now THAT is a surprise! (:-o) (more realistic though) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: [Aslml] What version of ASL are you playing? > Hi- > > Alot of changes, alot of confusion, and alot of complicated revisions to > ASL is just not my cup of joe. > > Lets see; we now have the -1 Bridge TEM, this is really splitting the ASL > community down the middle. > > Def. fire/ final fire with guns, from what I can gather with the murky > threads over at SZO, it seems that if you fire and lose ROF with your ATG, > you can now only IF vs the closest enemy unit. Did I read this correctly? > And if so, now you can run a conscript squad up to the halpless ATG while > your armor just breeze's on by the ATG, perhaps a hex or two away towards > their VC or whatever they are doing. Hmmmmm, not good. > > Platoon Movement, yes the warp tactic was gamey, but so is VBM, Now its > only a matter of time before the Rules committee changes VBM. > > Human Wave; Point and go, now its just a way to confusing rule in 2E to > actually use. > > On the positive side, Wall Advantage actually is understandable and might > be the only part of 2E I will port over to my 1E ASLRB. > > thoughts? > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From geb3 at inter.net Mon Aug 7 22:01:31 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:01:31 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] British 3" MTR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One suggestion on the Forums is that the issue is not the weapon caliber, but the bomb weight. Michael Erwin provided the following data: British 3" - 4.5 kg bomb French 81mm - 3.3 or 6.5 kg bomb German 81mm - 3.4 kg bomb Russian 82mm - 3.1 kg bomb This 1kg+ difference in payload could account for the significantly shorter range in early-war years. That could have been resolved by increasing the propellant charge, but I'm not sure what "improvements to the mortar itself" (Chapter H) could have been made to do that. Reducing bleeding of propellant gas around the projectile, perhaps? If the diameter of the bomb was actually 3.25", that would make it an 82mm weapon. Should 76.2mm be correct, but FP needs to better represent the weight of the bomb, I think I prefer Bruce's method of keeping 76* on the counter front and printing "IFT 8FP" on the back. Since British batteries had fewer tubes than their counterparts in other nations, keeping the OBA value at 70mm might best represent that quantitative difference. My two yen. Keep the change. - G -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Brian W Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:26 PM To: bprobst at netspace.net.au; 'Denis Dimick' Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] LVT's >Nobody is required to explain why the LVT have the stats >they do, although people are free to speculate. But you >should always remember that ASL does not attempt to simulate >every bolt, hinge and rubber duck that may or may not have >been fitted to every particular type of vehicle. >Approximations and abstractions are the key words to remember. Actually, MMP is about to change the 76* MTR of the Commonwealth to 81* because of speculation such as this. As Bruce Propst put it: >However, if research didn't turn up new and surprising information >occasionally it would hardly be worth doing. I'd say, go wherever >the facts take you. _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 23:12:09 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:12:09 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 21:42:16 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >If you compare the info and aftermath of 116 "The Sixth blow" and 117 "With tigers on their tail" there is a clear difference in detail provided. So? The info and aftermath are just "scene-setters". They are as detailed -- or as vague -- as the designers (and publishers) want them to be to give players an idea of what's going on. What you're saying is that the plot summary on the back of a book can be used as an accurate measure of the amount of effort the author put into researching his book. Furthermore, you're complaining without making any effort to do any research of your own! Think about this: you are complaining about something that *might* be true, but you don't actually know, you haven't even bothered to ask any of the people directly involved, but you don't mind dissing them in public any way. Charming. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 23:24:28 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:24:28 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Turan II no tank killer In-Reply-To: <011201c6ba6e$4dd9b500$b679de18@SR1820NX> References: <011201c6ba6e$4dd9b500$b679de18@SR1820NX> Message-ID: On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:07:15 -0300, David Olie wrote: >Also, I think most tank combat wargames have tended to over-emphasize armour >penetration, since this is something that we have statistics on. But >knocking out tanks was not all about penetration. Not to mention that games tend to make AFV combat into binary decisions: yes it will, or no it won't. ASL is better than many games in introducing a lot of randomness into that decision, but ultimately we, the players, have the luxury of looking up charts that someone else has prepared for us, and can calculate the probabilities of a hit and kill very precisely. The flesh-and-blood people who actually designed the vehicles, built them and crewed them never had that sort of luxury. Real life is much more chaotic than the TH/TK charts, and perhaps Hungarian tank crews felt more "empowered" by an increased calibre, even if penetration was worse. On an ASL-specific note, don't forget that the 75mm armament can cause casualties to enemy AFV via the Area Target process (aka "the Sherman's best friend") that it can't cause via direct fire; in that respect, at least, it's clearly superior to the 40mm. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 23:38:27 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:38:27 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] British 3" MTR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:01:31 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >This 1kg+ difference in payload could account for the significantly shorter >range in early-war years. That could have been resolved by increasing the >propellant charge, but I'm not sure what "improvements to the mortar itself" >(Chapter H) could have been made to do that. Reducing bleeding of >propellant gas around the projectile, perhaps? Not according to "Infantry Weapons of WWII", by Ian V. Hogg: "By adopting a slightly heavier barrel of stronger steel and a stronger baseplate it was found possible to adopt a six-secondary (sic) propelling charge which sent the bomb to 2800 yards, and this Mark 2 model became standard." (The Mark 1 had a range of only 1600 yards.) They attempted to repeat this trick with further redesign but it became counter-productive; they couldn't make the MTR heavier and stronger enough to withstand the extra propellant needed to increase the range by a significant amount. They gave up trying in 1945 and started over from scratch with a new design which ultimately became the modern 81mm. (Mr Hogg makes no suggestion that the calibre was anything other than the 3" that was claimed.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 8 00:05:18 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:05:18 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Routing and OBA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 01:22:11 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Payne wrote: > If a broken unit is in a foxhole within an OBA Blast Area and it routs to >an adjacent hex outside the Blast Area, does it take the FFE as it exits the >foxhole before going into the next hex? Yes. >C1.51 uses such enlightening, but >undefined, terms as "changing positions within a Blast Area hex". Is a >routing unit changing positions within the Blast Area if it combines the MF to >exit the foxhole with the cost of the next hex entered. It's not the "changing positions" that causes the attack in this case; it's the "becoming more vulnerable" bit. A10.51: "Any unit which routs through the Blast Area of a FFE is attacked in each Location of the Blast Area into which it routs as if it were a moving target during Defensive First Fire." C1.51: "It also attacks each unit/stack that is changing position (or becoming vulnerable) *within* a Blast Area hex *if* the unit/stack is becoming more vulnerable to the FFE than it was in its immediately-previous position (e.g., a unit exiting a sewer OR FOXHOLE, claiming Wall Advantage while in a building Location, or moving to a higher building level). ... FFMO/FFNAM can apply during the MPh (only) ...." (my emphasis) Since FFMO/FFNAM is NA during the RtPh, the only part of "as if Defensive First Fire" that can apply to the routing unit(s) is the system of being attacked for each discrete expenditure of MF -- i.e., the routing unit is attacked when it expends the 1 MF to exit the foxhole (even if that 1MF expenditure is combined with the cost to enter a new hex). Finally, note that the A10.531 (& B27.41) provisions of combining MF with entering/exiting entrenchments is used to negate *Interdiction*. Unfortunately for the routing unit, the OBA is not using Interdiction, it's making a normal attack based on the movement of the unit .... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Tue Aug 8 00:57:57 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:57:57 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> Message-ID: Mr Probst. You make a basic mistake, by assuming I'm dissing the designers and complaining about the (suggested) lack of research. This is wrong. I love Hill 621. I wrote "I don't write this to accuse the designers with poor research. It just shows that MMP will still print a fun scenario when they see one". To be that's not the wording of an attack. I don't know why you find my initial post so offensive, but I'm merely writing that designers making more sweeping scenarios without a multitude of sources available maybe shouldn't be discouraged to submit their work to MMP afterall. Janusz ________________________________ Fr?n: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst at netspace.net.au] Skickat: ti 2006-08-08 08:12 Till: Janusz Maxe Kopia: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net ?mne: Re: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 21:42:16 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >If you compare the info and aftermath of 116 "The Sixth blow" and 117 "With tigers on their tail" there is a clear difference in detail provided. So? The info and aftermath are just "scene-setters". They are as detailed -- or as vague -- as the designers (and publishers) want them to be to give players an idea of what's going on. What you're saying is that the plot summary on the back of a book can be used as an accurate measure of the amount of effort the author put into researching his book. Furthermore, you're complaining without making any effort to do any research of your own! Think about this: you are complaining about something that *might* be true, but you don't actually know, you haven't even bothered to ask any of the people directly involved, but you don't mind dissing them in public any way. Charming. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From geb3 at inter.net Tue Aug 8 02:09:56 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:09:56 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] RE2: British 3" MTR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Off course, blowing apart your barrel with a stronger propellant charge is the ultimate form of bleeding. 8^( Does Hogg provide sources? And what did he use for a spell checker? - G -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst at netspace.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:38 PM To: George Bates Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: British 3" MTR On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:01:31 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >This 1kg+ difference in payload could account for the significantly shorter >range in early-war years. That could have been resolved by increasing the >propellant charge, but I'm not sure what "improvements to the mortar itself" >(Chapter H) could have been made to do that. Reducing bleeding of >propellant gas around the projectile, perhaps? Not according to "Infantry Weapons of WWII", by Ian V. Hogg: "By adopting a slightly heavier barrel of stronger steel and a stronger baseplate it was found possible to adopt a six-secondary (sic) propelling charge which sent the bomb to 2800 yards, and this Mark 2 model became standard." (The Mark 1 had a range of only 1600 yards.) They attempted to repeat this trick with further redesign but it became counter-productive; they couldn't make the MTR heavier and stronger enough to withstand the extra propellant needed to increase the range by a significant amount. They gave up trying in 1945 and started over from scratch with a new design which ultimately became the modern 81mm. (Mr Hogg makes no suggestion that the calibre was anything other than the 3" that was claimed.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se Tue Aug 8 03:53:18 2006 From: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?Klas=20Malmstr=F6m?=) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:53:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Aslml] What version of ASL are you playing? In-Reply-To: <626c3162824d.62824d626c31@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <20060808105318.94279.qmail@web27914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi, --- scott.holst at us.army.mil skrev: > > > Def. fire/ final fire with guns, from what I can gather with the murky > threads over at SZO, it seems that if you fire and lose ROF with your ATG, > you can now only IF vs the closest enemy unit. Did I read this correctly? And > if so, now you can run a conscript squad up to the halpless ATG while your > armor just breeze's on by the ATG, perhaps a hex or two away towards their VC > or whatever they are doing. Hmmmmm, not good. I think the only change (or clarification depeneding on your view) was that a unit that starts the DFPh unmarked can no longer use IF after having lost its ROF in the DFPh. I personally don't like this change/errata/clarification. To my knowledge if you fire and and lose ROF in the MPh and then use IF in the same MPh, there is no limitation that you can only fire at the closest known enemy unit (as there is for e.g. SFF). And if you start the DFPh marked with a First Fire counter you can still use IF vs. adjacent/sama-location targets - as has always been possible. Regards, Klas ------------------------------------------------------- Klas Malmstrom Linkoping, Sweden Email: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se ------------------------------------------------------- From jbarber at meic.org Tue Aug 8 07:15:26 2006 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:15:26 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me thinks you're a little over the top on this one Bruce. No accusation was ever made, just an observation. On 8/8/06 12:12 AM, "Bruce Probst" wrote: [Big Snip] > Charming. Sorry but you're not the most credible source for making this determination From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 8 12:07:03 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:07:03 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7pnhd297n475an9otoj1npcibp26fngi73@4ax.com> On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:57:57 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >You make a basic mistake, by assuming I'm dissing the designers and complaining about the (suggested) lack of research. This is wrong. You started the thread with your assumption (based on no evidence whatsoever) that some of the scenarios in AoO were "obviously" designed without any historical research, solely because *you* weren't satisfied with the history on the scenario card. *That's* where you diss the designers and MMP. Hence I wrote: >>Think about this: you are complaining about something that *might* be true, >>but you don't actually know, you haven't even bothered to ask any of the >>people directly involved, but you don't mind dissing them in public any way. If you like, you can replace "complaining" with "commenting". I stand by everything else I wrote. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From jan.spoor at wybesse.net Tue Aug 8 12:17:47 2006 From: jan.spoor at wybesse.net (Jan W. S. Spoor) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: <7pnhd297n475an9otoj1npcibp26fngi73@4ax.com> References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> <7pnhd297n475an9otoj1npcibp26fngi73@4ax.com> Message-ID: <25471.63.125.4.210.1155064667.squirrel@webmail.wybesse.net> Bruce, You're usually acerbic and frequently rude, but I'm usually amazed by your encyclopaedeic knowledge of the game and all it's minutiae, errata, and addenda. In this particular exchange, however, I think you're being grumpy, bad-natured, and grinch-like about what was intended on Janusz's part to be a positive and happy observation. I'm sure you couldn't give a toss what I think, but I really wish you'd give it a rest. Stop being mean-spirited and argumentative just for the sake of it. The world doesn't need another Braxton Bragg. Jan Spoor Bruce Probst wrote: > On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:57:57 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" > wrote: > >>You make a basic mistake, by assuming I'm dissing the designers and >> complaining about the (suggested) lack of research. This is wrong. > > You started the thread with your assumption (based on no evidence > whatsoever) > that some of the scenarios in AoO were "obviously" designed without any > historical research, solely because *you* weren't satisfied with the > history > on the scenario card. *That's* where you diss the designers and MMP. > > Hence I wrote: > >>>Think about this: you are complaining about something that *might* be >>> true, >>>but you don't actually know, you haven't even bothered to ask any of the >>>people directly involved, but you don't mind dissing them in public any >>> way. > > If you like, you can replace "complaining" with "commenting". I stand by > everything else I wrote. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 8 12:18:07 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:18:07 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] RE2: British 3" MTR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27ohd2lbns55jebeu3ptfftol4toqk16m9@4ax.com> On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:09:56 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Does Hogg provide sources? Not exactly. "In the course of assembling data for this book innumerable sources have been consulted and every effort has been made to ensure that the facts and figures quoted are from an authoritative source. Wherever possible the weapon has been examined by the author; where this has not been possible, the relevant documents -- handbook, drill book, training manual, maintenance manual -- have been consulted." There's also a short bibliography, but he himself wrote many of the books that appear on it, so I think it's more of a "for further reading" list than a "works consulted" list. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From robertthepastor at juno.com Tue Aug 8 12:35:39 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:35:39 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Wall Advan Q Message-ID: <20060808.123541.75016.2.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, A question about WA. My GO 8-1 & 347 squad are Dashing during a Heavy Snow fall. (Their clothes are simply top notch!) They are in the street for 1 MF. (No shots, yet.) They attempt to cross a hedge and enter an OG hex with a Trench counter and a concealed enemy 337 squad under the trench. My guys get bounced back out of the trench hex and back to the road. My opponent now fires at the movers. QUESTION: May my opponent, who is _under_ the Trench counter, claim WA for this shot? I say no. (Yes, this does matter as it is the difference between a 6-1 shot vs a 6+1 shot!) All the best, Robert From oleboe at broadpark.no Tue Aug 8 12:44:28 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:44:28 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Wall Advan Q In-Reply-To: <20060808.123541.75016.2.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: Hi, Robert M Hammond wrote: > My GO 8-1 & 347 squad are Dashing during a Heavy Snow fall. (Their > clothes are simply top notch!) They are in the street for 1 MF. (No > shots, yet.) They attempt to cross a hedge and enter an OG hex with a > Trench counter and a concealed enemy 337 squad under the trench. > My guys get bounced back out of the trench hex and back to the road. My > opponent now fires at the movers. > > QUESTION: May my opponent, who is _under_ the Trench counter, claim WA > for this shot? > No. B9.32 says: "A unit may claim WA ... if it ... is not: ... beneath an entrenchment counter" So being beneath an entrenchment counter is one of many things that absolutely prevents a unit from claiming WA. From damavs at alltel.net Tue Aug 8 12:45:22 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:45:22 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Wall Advan Q Message-ID: <20060808194522.VERR4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Robert M Hammond writes: > QUESTION: May my opponent, who is _under_ the Trench counter, claim WA > for this shot? Of course not. Entrenched units cannot gain Wall Advantage ever. So you're only facing the 6+1 rather than the potentially devastating -1 mod... If your opponent wanted to contest the wall, he needed to be out of the trench, by being in the trench, he gave up the wall for you in exchange for being out of LOS until you came adjacent. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From Michael.Hammond at Aspect.com Tue Aug 8 13:11:17 2006 From: Michael.Hammond at Aspect.com (Hammond, Michael) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:11:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com> <7pnhd297n475an9otoj1npcibp26fngi73@4ax.com> Message-ID: <0C6849C79895D9489454E7E3891E1B0FB98E@ASP1EXCH1.aspect.com> Bruce said: > You started the thread with your assumption (based on no evidence whatsoever) that some of the scenarios in AoO were "obviously" designed without any historical research I don't know if this adds more light or heat to this little debate, but the word "obviously" hasn't appeared in any of Janusz's posts on this thread nor in anybody else's back to August 2, when Bret Hildebrand said: > Obviously Zadra's a Washington Post reader. Mike Hammond From gd891 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 8 13:48:57 2006 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd891) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:48:57 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published In-Reply-To: <0C6849C79895D9489454E7E3891E1B0FB98E@ASP1EXCH1.aspect.com> Message-ID: Please don't let the truth steer Bruce from his current direction..... -----Original Message----- Bruce said: > You started the thread with your assumption (based on no evidence > whatsoever) that some of the scenarios in AoO were "obviously" > designed without any historical research I don't know if this adds more light or heat to this little debate, but the word "obviously" hasn't appeared in any of Janusz's posts on this thread nor in anybody else's back to August 2, when Bret Hildebrand said: > Obviously Zadra's a Washington Post reader. Mike Hammond From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Tue Aug 8 18:06:18 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 01:06:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Routing and OBA References: Message-ID: Bruce Probst writes: > > It's not the "changing positions" that causes the attack in this case; it's > the "becoming more vulnerable" bit. > That's how I understood it before reading C1.51 again, but the "changing position within" that implied staying in the hex to me. Well I guess my guys will stay put then. Thanks, Chuck From albcann at warwick.net Tue Aug 8 20:01:28 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 23:01:28 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] BRT help Message-ID: <000701c6bb60$1df703e0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Guys, Very frustrated trying to figure out how to plan a Marine attack on Tarawa. Would someone kindly answer a couple of questions? How do the guns get moved toward the shore? There is a reference about the M3A1 37LL being towed by jeeps if they enter at the pier, but what if they don't? Are they loaded onto LVT's? If so how many portage points are they worth? Are they instead manhandled through the water? These seem like they should be simple questions, but I cannot find any answers despite a great deal of research. Thanks, Al Cann From janusz.maxe at unf.se Tue Aug 8 22:23:26 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 07:23:26 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published References: <7o3fd255d71q07jboks0jc64fhc6qmg1ta@4ax.com><7pnhd297n475an9otoj1npcibp26fngi73@4ax.com> <0C6849C79895D9489454E7E3891E1B0FB98E@ASP1EXCH1.aspect.com> Message-ID: But Hallo! This thread of mine wasn't meant to be about whether I dissed the designers or not. It was about MMP printing more general "operation scale" scenarios. This would give us more official scenarios of both types. Isn't that good? Janusz ________________________________ From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net on behalf of Hammond, Michael Sent: Tue 2006-08-08 22:11 To: aslml at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] Official scenarios like Hill 621 are still published Bruce said: > You started the thread with your assumption (based on no evidence whatsoever) that some of the scenarios in AoO were "obviously" designed without any historical research I don't know if this adds more light or heat to this little debate, but the word "obviously" hasn't appeared in any of Janusz's posts on this thread nor in anybody else's back to August 2, when Bret Hildebrand said: > Obviously Zadra's a Washington Post reader. Mike Hammond _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From kevinkenneally at isot.com Wed Aug 9 04:00:44 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 06:00:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] RE2: British 3" MTR In-Reply-To: <27ohd2lbns55jebeu3ptfftol4toqk16m9@4ax.com> References: <27ohd2lbns55jebeu3ptfftol4toqk16m9@4ax.com> Message-ID: <2254.204.249.124.67.1155121244.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> I heard Charlie Markuss was doing some research about this issue. > On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:09:56 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: > >>Does Hogg provide sources? > > Not exactly. > > "In the course of assembling data for this book innumerable sources have > been > consulted and every effort has been made to ensure that the facts and > figures > quoted are from an authoritative source. Wherever possible the weapon has > been examined by the author; where this has not been possible, the > relevant > documents -- handbook, drill book, training manual, maintenance manual -- > have > been consulted." > > There's also a short bibliography, but he himself wrote many of the books > that > appear on it, so I think it's more of a "for further reading" list than a > "works consulted" list. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From dramsey at iasb.org.uk Wed Aug 9 04:33:41 2006 From: dramsey at iasb.org.uk (Ramsey David) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:33:41 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] Scenario Archive Message-ID: <39477C96B62FFD4FBADBED8E7FE967B803213779@mail.iasb.org.uk> Hi All, The szo forum members may already be aware of this, but for those that aren't (and an update for people who are) the Scenario Archive (http://www.aslscenarioarchive.com) is up and running with 60 registered users. There are functions to rate scenarios, add files, update your collection, record your games (don't stop using ROAR) and check errata, references etc. Most recently I've added a scenario picker, for those tough moments when you just can't decide which scenario to play next, and now Scenario Lists (like GeekLists on BoardGameGeek) - which currently has Mark Nixon's personal top 10's and the ASLML Hall of Fame from 2002 (was this ever updated - if so perhaps someone would like to add a new list) I'd love to see some new content up there. Lists of scenarios you just can't win, unbalanced scenarios that you'd always play regardless, Scenarios played from the latest tourney you've been to, etc. Anyway, if you haven't already, please take a look, register and contribute if possible. The site absolutely needs input from players to make it work. Feedback always welcome and ideas/corrections are much appreciated. Thanks, Dave This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager or telephone 00 44 (0) 207 246 6410 From cduke at intelnett.com Wed Aug 9 05:55:33 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:55:33 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] HIP vs ? Message-ID: <002701c6bbb3$19bfd420$661ea8c0@Duke> How is this handled: One player has HIP fortifications. The other brings a concealed stack into LOS of those fortifications. Options: 1.- Reveal the fort. 2.- Defender: "I might have something to reveal, if your stack has a real unit" 3.- Attacker: "This is a real unit, so you better reveal anything it sees" 4.- Nothing, until the stack actually enters the fort hex. 5.- Other Charles From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 9 06:26:17 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 9:26:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] HIP vs ? Message-ID: <20060809132617.NGVS28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Charles Duke writes: > How is this handled: One player has HIP fortifications. The other brings a > concealed stack into LOS of those fortifications. Like all things ASL, the answer is of course: "it depends". > 1.- Reveal the fort. If the attacker has no dummies, then obviously the proper thing to do is reveal the fortification - after verifying LOS of course (which is a free LOS check, rather nice for your guys in the fortification). > 2.- Defender: "I might have something to reveal, if your stack has a real > unit" If the attacker has the potential for dummies this is the proper approach. The attacker doesn't know where your HIP stuff is so having him roam around asking if he can seen anything would get a little old. Of course the attacker would have the option of either declining to answer or saying no they're not real in which case they wouldn't reveal anything. > 3.- Attacker: "This is a real unit, so you better reveal anything it sees" Never a bad idea as the attacker to remind your opponent they should be revealing HIP stuff if you can see so while it's technically not the correct way to do things, a little reminder can avoid issues later in the scenario... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From aslwynn at rogers.com Wed Aug 9 09:26:34 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:26:34 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Really Basic Question References: <2b8228f00605141303i2400decdu15f7f79213b46e7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008c01c6bbd0$952db470$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Gentlemen; I'm embarrassed to have to ask this - I obviously don't get to play enough... Conscript MMC and leader advance into 3MF terrain. If alone, the MMC would be CX'd for sure, but with the leader, is he? Wynn "Tired but an ASL Volunteer" Polnicky From jmmcleod at mts.net Wed Aug 9 09:36:37 2006 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:36:37 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Really Basic Question References: <2b8228f00605141303i2400decdu15f7f79213b46e7c@mail.gmail.com> <008c01c6bbd0$952db470$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <001901c6bbd1$fd30ca70$d927c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Wynn, are you going to be at the CASLO this year? We'll be in Montreal BTW. =Jim= From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 9 10:59:09 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:59:09 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Really Basic Question Message-ID: <20060809175909.BUJS28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> "Wynn" writes: > Conscript MMC and leader advance into 3MF terrain. If alone, the MMC would > be CX'd for sure, but with the leader, is he? Nope - with the leader he has 5 MF so a 3 MF advance did not use either all of his MF or >= 4MF so no CX. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Aug 9 12:16:19 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 05:16:19 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] HIP vs ? In-Reply-To: <002701c6bbb3$19bfd420$661ea8c0@Duke> References: <002701c6bbb3$19bfd420$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:55:33 -0600, Charles Duke wrote: >How is this handled: One player has HIP fortifications. The other brings a >concealed stack into LOS of those fortifications. Options: > >1.- Reveal the fort. >2.- Defender: "I might have something to reveal, if your stack has a real >unit" >3.- Attacker: "This is a real unit, so you better reveal anything it sees" >4.- Nothing, until the stack actually enters the fort hex. >5.- Other I concur with Bret's response. The general point is that the onus is always on the ATTACKER to prove that he has a real unit first before the DEFENDER reveals any specific information (although the nature of the beast is that even a probe with dummies will likely force the DEFENDER to reveal some *general* information). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From scott.holst at us.army.mil Wed Aug 9 16:05:01 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:05:01 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] =?utf-8?q?M=EF=BF=BDnner_gegen_Panzer?= In-Reply-To: References: <002701c6bbb3$19bfd420$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: Hi- Came across this really cool vidio footage of Heroic German soldiers trying to defend themselves against the on slaught of Russian Armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STQHH_hJlhM&mode=related&search= enjoy Scott From craig.p.walters at monsanto.com Wed Aug 9 19:38:31 2006 From: craig.p.walters at monsanto.com (WALTERS, CRAIG P [AG/1000]) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 21:38:31 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Pacific Memories Message-ID: <633248C3A654B740B4C2FFD67A42C6CAB03265@NA1000EXM02.na.ds.monsanto.com> Sorry if this is a double-posting. I never saw it on the list. I though this was interesting. http://pacificmemories.blogspot.com/2004/11/chapter-1-bon-voyage-what-do-you -mean.html Take a look at all the chapters Craig --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited. All e-mails and attachments sent and received are subject to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient of this e-mail is solely responsible for checking for the presence of "Viruses" or other "Malware". Monsanto accepts no liability for any damage caused by any such code transmitted by or accompanying this e-mail or any attachment. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 20:07:20 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:07:20 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] BRT help In-Reply-To: <000701c6bb60$1df703e0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> References: <000701c6bb60$1df703e0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <2b8228f00608092007r7cf1497ay59bb24256d08ca3d@mail.gmail.com> Read CG13 on page T8. Check the reference to US vehicle note 51. That note gives the PP cost of items carried in the LVT. I think you already read the Formation note g. Rule CG2.3 also mentions that guns must be dm if possible, so the 75* ART come in dm. On 8/8/06, al cann wrote: > Guys, > > Very frustrated trying to figure out how to plan a Marine attack on > Tarawa. Would someone kindly answer a couple of questions? > > How do the guns get moved toward the shore? There is a reference about the > M3A1 37LL being towed by jeeps if they enter at the pier, but what if they > don't? Are they loaded onto LVT's? If so how many portage points are they > worth? Are they instead manhandled through the water? > > These seem like they should be simple questions, but I cannot find any > answers despite a great deal of research. > > Thanks, > > Al Cann > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 20:10:57 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:10:57 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow Message-ID: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> I've been keeping my scenarios in clear sheet protectors every since I started my ASL adventure in 1990. At that time, I did not know about archival quality sheet protectors. My older scenarios have gone yellow while sitting in these sheet protectors in binders in a book shelf. Did these unknown quality sheet protectors possibly cause the yellowing? Can I stop further damage by moving the scenarios to archival quality sheet protectors? Thanks for your help. -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From cduke at intelnett.com Wed Aug 9 20:20:18 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:20:18 -0600 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BAslml=5D_M=EF=BF=BDnner_gegen_Panzer?= References: <002701c6bbb3$19bfd420$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <002401c6bc2b$e80c3e90$661ea8c0@Duke> Propaganda or no, it is quite exciting. It looks more like a training movie though. However, one wonders where the Russian infantry is, and why the tanks don't use their mg's very much. Man those boys do know how to roll low on their ATM check! Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: [Aslml] M???nner gegen Panzer > > Hi- > > Came across this really cool vidio footage of Heroic German soldiers > trying to defend themselves against the on slaught of Russian Armor: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STQHH_hJlhM&mode=related&search= > > > enjoy > > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From jan.spoor at wybesse.net Wed Aug 9 21:07:07 2006 From: jan.spoor at wybesse.net (Jan Spoor) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:07:07 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Wake Island Message-ID: <44DAB0EB.1040307@wybesse.net> A friend of mine is terrifically interested in the Pacific War and has developed a specific interest in the battle for Wake Island. He spotted the Critical Hit module and asked me about it. I don't have it, so I thought I'd ask the list. Has anyone bought it? It's billed as being one of their ATS products; is it compatible with ASL? How many scenarios does it have? What's your opinion of it in terms of playability and enjoyment? Alternately, I see four Wake Island ASL scenarios in the Chronicles of War (3 from the Internet, 1 from a CH package). Are there others that people are aware of? thanks in advance for your comments! Jan Spoor From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Aug 9 23:03:13 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:03:13 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:10:57 -0400, "M Rodgers" wrote: >I've been keeping my scenarios in clear sheet protectors every since I >started my ASL adventure in 1990. At that time, I did not know about >archival quality sheet protectors. My older scenarios have gone yellow >while sitting in these sheet protectors in binders in a book shelf. > >Did these unknown quality sheet protectors possibly cause the yellowing? I doubt it. I suspect it's the paper itself that yellows over time (acid content, or something like that). >Can I stop further damage by moving the scenarios to archival quality >sheet protectors? I doubt it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From kevinkenneally at isot.com Thu Aug 10 04:08:43 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 06:08:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: References: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3500.204.249.124.67.1155208123.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> I recommend that you "color copy" your scenario cards, then seal them up in an "air-tight" plastic container. I have color copied almost all of my scenarios, but have the originals in a CoB box up in the attic. I just might need to look at them and see you "yellow" they might be. Kevin > On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:10:57 -0400, "M Rodgers" > wrote: > >>I've been keeping my scenarios in clear sheet protectors every since I >>started my ASL adventure in 1990. At that time, I did not know about >>archival quality sheet protectors. My older scenarios have gone yellow >>while sitting in these sheet protectors in binders in a book shelf. >> >>Did these unknown quality sheet protectors possibly cause the yellowing? > > I doubt it. I suspect it's the paper itself that yellows over time (acid > content, or something like that). > >>Can I stop further damage by moving the scenarios to archival quality >>sheet protectors? > > I doubt it. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From yal88 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 10 06:00:48 2006 From: yal88 at hotmail.com (x x) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:00:48 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Mďż˝nner gegen Panzer In-Reply-To: <002401c6bc2b$e80c3e90$661ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: They're using the optional pre-recorded possession rules (C13.75). Mika >From: Charles Duke >To: scott.holst at us.army.mil, aslml at lists.aslml.net >Subject: Re: [Aslml] Mďż˝nner gegen Panzer >Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:20:18 -0600 > >Propaganda or no, it is quite exciting. It looks more like a training movie >though. However, one wonders where the Russian infantry is, and why the >tanks don't use their mg's very much. Man those boys do know how to roll >low >on their ATM check! > >Charles > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:05 PM >Subject: [Aslml] Mďż˝nner gegen Panzer > > > > > > Hi- > > > > Came across this really cool vidio footage of Heroic German soldiers > > trying to defend themselves against the on slaught of Russian Armor: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STQHH_hJlhM&mode=related&search= > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From albcann at warwick.net Thu Aug 10 06:20:21 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:20:21 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's (again) Message-ID: <004b01c6bc7f$bd829d00$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Hi everyone, It is not clear to me what the CVP value is of the LVT's in BRT. 1 or 3? Anyone who knows the answer to this I would appreciate the info. Thanks, Al Cann From asl at howardhowardfine.com Thu Aug 10 06:33:27 2006 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:33:27 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: References: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060810083013.0377fb10@mail.howardhowardfine.com> I agree with Bruce. I suspect that Monarch (AH's parent company) didn't use the best quality paper they could find - mine have yellowed as well. But then, Monarch couldn't even keep the counter colours straight from module to module -- and they were (are?) a printing company! c At 01:03 AM 10/08/2006, Bruce Probst wrote: >On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:10:57 -0400, "M Rodgers" wrote: > > >I've been keeping my scenarios in clear sheet protectors every since I > >started my ASL adventure in 1990. At that time, I did not know about > >archival quality sheet protectors. My older scenarios have gone yellow > >while sitting in these sheet protectors in binders in a book shelf. > > > >Did these unknown quality sheet protectors possibly cause the yellowing? > >I doubt it. I suspect it's the paper itself that yellows over time (acid >content, or something like that). > > >Can I stop further damage by moving the scenarios to archival quality > >sheet protectors? > >I doubt it. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au >Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 >"Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" >ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From gd891 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 10 07:04:26 2006 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd891) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:04:26 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060810083013.0377fb10@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Message-ID: Please remember the objective is to play the game - not to look at it (or store it, archive it, fondle it, roll around naked in it....whoops....gave away a bit too much there......) From chris at jib.co.za Thu Aug 10 07:14:03 2006 From: chris at jib.co.za (Chris van Wyk) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:14:03 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c6bc87$3bcc7620$156ea8c0@lobo> "It rubs the scenario card on its skin or else it gets the hose again. Yes, it will, Precious, won't it? It will get the hose!" Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] > On Behalf Of gd891 > Sent: 10 August 2006 04:04 PM > To: 'ASLML' > Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow > > Please remember the objective is to play the game - not to look at it (or > store it, archive it, fondle it, roll around naked in it....whoops....gave > away a bit too much there......) > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From kevinkenneally at isot.com Thu Aug 10 07:03:58 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: <000801c6bc85$e3e25110$38ea12a7@accounts.root.corp> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060810083013.0377fb10@mail.howardhowardfine.com> <000801c6bc85$e3e25110$38ea12a7@accounts.root.corp> Message-ID: <4376.204.249.124.67.1155218638.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> Just so long as you do NOT admit to taking a bath in a tub "full of counters"... > Please remember the objective is to play the game - not to look at it (or > store it, archive it, fondle it, roll around naked in it....whoops....gave > away a bit too much there......) > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From geb3 at inter.net Thu Aug 10 07:26:59 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:26:59 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] RE2: scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: <001001c6bc87$3bcc7620$156ea8c0@lobo> Message-ID: Someone's been mixing his Tolkien with his Harris. Does it make for a better high? - G -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Chris van Wyk Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:14 PM To: 'ASLML' Subject: Re: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow "It rubs the scenario card on its skin or else it gets the hose again. Yes, it will, Precious, won't it? It will get the hose!" Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] > On Behalf Of gd891 > Sent: 10 August 2006 04:04 PM > To: 'ASLML' > Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow > > Please remember the objective is to play the game - not to look at it (or > store it, archive it, fondle it, roll around naked in it....whoops....gave > away a bit too much there......) > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From reamees at earthlink.net Thu Aug 10 17:11:38 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:11:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Men against Tanks" Message-ID: <19531460.1155255098323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for pointing that clip out to the list. I bought that video many years ago and was usually one I watched to psyche myself up for ASLOK with. That and the film, "A Walk in the Sun." Favorite line from that movie is one of the 30 cal crew saying he was "going to rake the joint." Back to tanks. We seem to think that the captured Russian tanks in this training film were probably manned by real Russian prisoners, particularly the ones they managed to blow up in the film :). Given how the Germans treated Russian prisoners, it wouldn't surprise me. I do not remember the whole file but one scene has the Germans using white phosphorous. We thought that strange after reading in that completely trustworthy ASLRB that they didn't. "Zadra" From scott.holst at us.army.mil Thu Aug 10 17:25:43 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:25:43 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] "Men against Tanks" In-Reply-To: <19531460.1155255098323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19531460.1155255098323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi- Glad I can contribute a little something to the list. I know in AbtF HASL, the SS were givin WP capability. Might make a good SSR from 1943 to 1945 scenarios. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Woloszyn Date: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:11 pm Subject: [Aslml] "Men against Tanks" > Thanks for pointing that clip out to the list. I bought > that video many years ago and was usually one I watched to psyche > myself up for ASLOK with. That and the film, "A Walk in the > Sun." Favorite line from that movie is one of the 30 cal crew > saying he was "going to rake the joint." > > Back to tanks. We seem to think that the captured Russian > tanks in this training film were probably manned by real Russian > prisoners, particularly the ones they managed to blow up in the > film :). Given how the Germans treated Russian prisoners, it > wouldn't surprise me. > > I do not remember the whole file but one scene has the > Germans using white phosphorous. We thought that strange after > reading in that completely trustworthy ASLRB that they didn't. > > "Zadra" > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 18:52:19 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:52:19 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's (again) In-Reply-To: <004b01c6bc7f$bd829d00$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> References: <004b01c6bc7f$bd829d00$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <2b8228f00608101852i76c1dbf1rb5dced408a68009d@mail.gmail.com> SSR BRT11, as you noticed, states "an eliminated LVT is always worth 1 CVP and Crew Survival is NA". This has always made me think that the LVT AND CREW were worth 1 CVP. Until you asked this question, I never even entertained any other thought. The next sentence states "A crew that Abandons its LVT is ELiminated but does not count for CVP." This might imply that a crew dying in its LVT does count for CVP, especially since crews normally count for CVP when dying in their AFV. Either go with 3 CVP or ask Perry. On 8/10/06, al cann wrote: > Hi everyone, > > It is not clear to me what the CVP value is of the LVT's in BRT. > > 1 or 3? > > Anyone who knows the answer to this I would appreciate the info. > > Thanks, > > Al Cann > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From hobbies at revealed.net Thu Aug 10 21:02:55 2006 From: hobbies at revealed.net (Alex Key) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] scenarios going yellow In-Reply-To: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b8228f00608092010y2538fd5au58dcb853df9bf94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DC016F.7030003@revealed.net> M, If these have been kept out of direct sunlight, then it's very possible that the yellowing was caused by the sheet protectors. When you got these protectors, you may have noticed a greasy feel when you handled these but didn't see any liquid. That was probably the plasticizer. The older sheet protectors usually contained plasticizers (to increase the plastic's pliability) or, to a lesser extent, acid (used in some production processes) both of which have been proven to discolor paper and photographs. A flexible PVC plasticizer is the most probable culprit - the plastic 'bleeds' off its plasticizer onto any absorbent material, discoloring it. Probably way more info than you needed to know. The comic book industry has known about this problem for some time. If you go into any comic store and ask for their comic or magazine bags, the outer display bag (usually holding 50 or 100 bags) should state that these bags are safe for long term use (aka archival safe) and/or are acid free. I've been in business for many years and have used these bags (and sheet protectors) for storing mapboards, loose scenario packs, magazines and my personal ASL gear without ever having a discoloration problem. If you use backer boards to protect your magazines, etc., make sure these are acid free. Backer boards can also be bought from your local comics dealer. Staples and Office Max (the only office supply stores in this area) have several types of archival-safe, acid-free sheet protectors. Hope this helps. Alex M Rodgers wrote: >I've been keeping my scenarios in clear sheet protectors every since I >started my ASL adventure in 1990. At that time, I did not know about >archival quality sheet protectors. My older scenarios have gone yellow >while sitting in these sheet protectors in binders in a book shelf. > >Did these unknown quality sheet protectors possibly cause the yellowing? > >Can I stop further damage by moving the scenarios to archival quality >sheet protectors? > >Thanks for your help. > > > From kschindl at swissonline.ch Fri Aug 11 00:17:34 2006 From: kschindl at swissonline.ch (charlie "beagle" schindler) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:17:34 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] ASML: looking for scott greenmans Message-ID: <44DC2F0E.6020106@swissonline.ch> hi listers i am looking for scott greenmans lost contact to him and mails come back. anybody knows more? thx -- dr. charlie schindler -- microsoft is not the answer. microsoft is the question. the answer is no. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 11 00:44:45 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:44:45 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] LVT's (again) In-Reply-To: <2b8228f00608101852i76c1dbf1rb5dced408a68009d@mail.gmail.com> References: <004b01c6bc7f$bd829d00$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <2b8228f00608101852i76c1dbf1rb5dced408a68009d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <34dod2p70rqsqgpuuqm0gvc8fds3att3dd@4ax.com> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:52:19 -0400, "M Rodgers" wrote: >SSR BRT11, as you noticed, states "an eliminated LVT is always worth 1 >CVP and Crew Survival is NA". This has always made me think that the >LVT AND CREW were worth 1 CVP. Until you asked this question, I never >even entertained any other thought. The next sentence states "A crew >that Abandons its LVT is ELiminated but does not count for CVP." This >might imply that a crew dying in its LVT does count for CVP, >especially since crews normally count for CVP when dying in their AFV. Except that the SSR says otherwise. The rule seems clear to me: you never have LVT crews on the board, and they are never worth VP. So I'd agree with your first instinct and think that it's a flat 1 VP. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From river at zip.com.au Fri Aug 11 06:01:54 2006 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:01:54 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] "Men against Tanks" References: <19531460.1155255098323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <009001c6bd46$51dd5d20$6601a8c0@riverxp> Hi, A Walk in the Sun is a fine movie. I must admit my favourite line is from Kellys Heroes when Donald Sullivan says, "No one said nothing about locking horms with no Tigers!" A line I have often said when there's a Tiger on the board. seeyuzz river -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 10/08/2006 From reamees at earthlink.net Fri Aug 11 15:00:52 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:00:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4]" Bridge Crossing Message-ID: <8984483.1155333653043.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Took the day off to play Dave Stephens (retired teacher) who had not yet seen J7. I told him about the new bridge TEM but ironically a couple of days before we played it was his turn to pick a scenario and he chose this exercise in bridge crossing. I lost on turn the last turn (#7) when I couldn't push enough infantry over the bridge (30 CVP). I had pretty well decimated the French except for a few die-hards that kept up enough fire power on the mined bridge exit location on the French side to jam things up. Dave got excellent results with the reinforcing mortar. The -1 TEM did not play near the roll that strategy, tactics and fortune played. Best moment was my 9-1 and a half squad clearing a 12F mined location on my side of the bridge after mortar fire broke the other two and a half squads who were TI and in the smoke of my blazing armored car (AT mines). That opened the gates but only momentarily. ROAR had this at 2-2 until today . I probably did not push hard enough down the center with my SS and tried using the two rafts to get an extra four CVP's across the river (nobody made it and I wasted too many resources doing the overwatch for this operation. "Zadra" PS: Posted also on the Consim site From cduke at intelnett.com Fri Aug 11 16:28:36 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:28:36 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4]" Bridge Crossing References: <8984483.1155333653043.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001401c6bd9d$de64f030$661ea8c0@Duke> Ray said, > Took the day off to play Dave Stephens (retired teacher) who had not yet > seen J7. I told him about the new bridge TEM but ironically a couple of > days before we played it was his turn to pick a scenario and he chose this > exercise in bridge crossing. Seems like you had a great game. Now, I've been hearing a lot lately about this -1 bridge tem, but I can't find it anywhere, is it a new rule, is it official, where can it be found? Charles From asl at howardhowardfine.com Fri Aug 11 18:13:51 2006 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:13:51 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060811201314.037960f0@mail.craigcooper.com> Just in time for the weekend. Perfect! craig http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Fri Aug 11 20:08:14 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 03:08:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Trenches and Cliffs Message-ID: Hi, Can units in a trench at a higher level move across a cliff hexside to the lower level without climbing? B27.54 says "trench counters are automatically connected to any adjacent trench counter not separated by a cliff hexside." And B27.6 discusses trenches and elevation changes to accessible hexes, but I don't find anything that directly says a unit in a trench at the top of a cliff cannot use the trench to cross the cliff to the lower elevation (from FF13 to GG13 on the RB map) or that the two locations must be accessible. (I do infer that, though.) What do you say "Oh, Wise Ones"? Chuck From ek1_asl at peoplepc.com Fri Aug 11 20:17:40 2006 From: ek1_asl at peoplepc.com (EK I) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:17:40 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060811201314.037960f0@mail.craigcooper.com> Message-ID: <002201c6bdbd$df9c7840$19010243@WESSEX43> are these J7's coming via 'endless subscription' at this point? see nothing about J7 one way or the other at MMP web site... gt ----- Original Message ----- From: "ASL" To: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today > > Just in time for the weekend. Perfect! > > > craig > > http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Fri Aug 11 20:19:22 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 03:19:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4]" Bridge Crossing References: <8984483.1155333653043.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Raymond Woloszyn writes: Al Saltzman and I played this twice and my Germans won both. The first game was a blow out as he tried to defend my side of the bridge. I rolled him up without any problems. The second game, Al had all his force on the opposite side, but the mines were on my side. Once I cleared a lane, I was able to get plenty of guys across (even used the rafts successfully for the first time in my ASL career). I think the mines on the far side of the river is probably a better bet. We both thought the Germans had a strong edge (or the French too little AT capability.) Of course, you had to get through the barrage of Dave's jokes with minimal losses, but you can handle that! ;-) Chuck From chas.argent at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 20:25:42 2006 From: chas.argent at gmail.com (Chas Argent) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:25:42 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today In-Reply-To: <002201c6bdbd$df9c7840$19010243@WESSEX43> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060811201314.037960f0@mail.craigcooper.com> <002201c6bdbd$df9c7840$19010243@WESSEX43> Message-ID: There is no longer an "endless sub" for Journals. That was dispensed with last year. The Journals which are shipping now are to people who pre-predered them. You will not see it for sale on the MMP web site until all pre-orders and all store orders have been shipped. Regards, Chas On 8/11/06, EK I wrote: > are these J7's coming via 'endless subscription' at this point? see nothing > about J7 one way or the other at MMP web site... > > gt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ASL" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 6:13 PM > Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today > > > > > > Just in time for the weekend. Perfect! > > > > > > craig > > > > http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com From asl at howardhowardfine.com Fri Aug 11 20:25:26 2006 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:25:26 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today In-Reply-To: <002201c6bdbd$df9c7840$19010243@WESSEX43> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060811201314.037960f0@mail.craigcooper.com> <002201c6bdbd$df9c7840$19010243@WESSEX43> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060811222427.037898c0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> No, I pre-ordered. I think J7 is off the web site until all the pre-orders ship but I can't say that officially. Keith? c At 10:17 PM 11/08/2006, EK I wrote: >are these J7's coming via 'endless subscription' at this point? see nothing >about J7 one way or the other at MMP web site... > >gt > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ASL" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 6:13 PM >Subject: [Aslml] J7 arrived today > > > > > > Just in time for the weekend. Perfect! > > > > > > craig > > > > http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From fred at sdccu.net Fri Aug 11 20:26:18 2006 From: fred at sdccu.net (Fred) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:26:18 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Trenches and Cliffs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44DD4A5A.1070109@sdccu.net> I think you need to read a little more such as the first sentence of B27.6 which says the hex being entered must be Accessible. Fred Chuck Payne wrote: > Hi, > > Can units in a trench at a higher level move across a cliff hexside to > the lower level without climbing? B27.54 says "trench counters are > automatically connected to any adjacent trench counter not separated by a > cliff hexside." And B27.6 discusses trenches and elevation changes to > accessible hexes, but I don't find anything that directly says a unit in a > trench at the top of a cliff cannot use the trench to cross the cliff to the > lower elevation (from FF13 to GG13 on the RB map) or that the two locations > must be accessible. (I do infer that, though.) > > What do you say "Oh, Wise Ones"? > > Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > From rln22 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 11 22:00:48 2006 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Trenches and Cliffs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060812050048.64923.qmail@web53610.mail.yahoo.com> The answer is under the cliffs rules, not the entrenchment rules: 11.4 CLIMBING: Only Good Order Infantry may cross a cliff hexside, and only in the act of Climbing. --- Chuck Payne wrote: > Hi, > > Can units in a trench at a higher level move > across a cliff hexside to > the lower level without climbing? B27.54 says > "trench counters are > automatically connected to any adjacent trench > counter not separated by a > cliff hexside." And B27.6 discusses trenches and > elevation changes to > accessible hexes, but I don't find anything that > directly says a unit in a > trench at the top of a cliff cannot use the trench > to cross the cliff to the > lower elevation (from FF13 to GG13 on the RB map) or > that the two locations > must be accessible. (I do infer that, though.) > > What do you say "Oh, Wise Ones"? > > Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From reamees at earthlink.net Sat Aug 12 03:06:51 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 06:06:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4]" Bridge Crossing Message-ID: <31845463.1155377212111.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> This -1 TEM arrises from errata in the new ASL Journal #7 where [to the surprise of many players including myself after twenty years] a -1 TEM applies while you are on a bridge hex if the fire is through the road depiction. I have only played subject game and not played or read enough posts to comment completely but a typcial situation that came up in our game where it applied was as followed: My double timing SS running through a French two factor fire lane down the road depiction of the bridge were tagged with -3 die roll modifier. However, a French mortar in its prep fire phase firing at the bridge through the bridge depiction was still +1 on its effects roll. The -1 TEM did not apply. All of this is from the revised TEM chart [God knows at this point what version this chart is] where the bridge TEM is noted as -1 through the road depiction. "Zadra" PS: It was a great and memorable game and even though I lost, my opponent was on edge the whole game. Stupid rafts! -----Original Message----- >From: Charles Duke >Sent: Aug 11, 2006 7:28 PM >To: Raymond Woloszyn , aslml at lists.aslml.net >Subject: Re: [Aslml] "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4]" Bridge Crossing > >Ray said, > >> Took the day off to play Dave Stephens (retired teacher) who had not yet >> seen J7. I told him about the new bridge TEM but ironically a couple of >> days before we played it was his turn to pick a scenario and he chose this >> exercise in bridge crossing. > >Seems like you had a great game. Now, I've been hearing a lot lately about >this -1 bridge tem, but I can't find it anywhere, is it a new rule, is it >official, where can it be found? > >Charles > > From reamees at earthlink.net Sat Aug 12 03:31:09 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 06:31:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Rules Question - Minefield Clearance Message-ID: <26055288.1155378669450.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> After yesterday's game in a reflective mood I got out the ASLRB to check on the myriad of situations that came up in the course of my six hour [with breaks] game of "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4] to make sure we played correctly. I find this very helpful for future play as long as my brain's memory cells hold their charge. Question 1: Confirming that AT and A-P mines can occupy the same hex and assuming a successful clearance attempt, is a trail break created through both types of minefield or are these subject to separate and pre-designated attempts? Question 2: Entering a minefield via a partial trail break and then making a successful clearance roll, must you include the hexside through which you entered as one of the two hexsides where you are allowed to create the trail break? Rules say you can create the TB on any two hexsides thus ignoring the "temporary" TB used to enter the hex. Pretty clear but want to be sure. Question 3: A unit that entered a minefield for a clearance attempt is broken either by first fire or later by final defensive fire. I assume that unit is free to rout back out of the hex via the TB without triggering mines. Seems more or less clear but the rule book does not address broken units. "Zadra" (carefully probing the earth with his bayonet) From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 12 14:25:42 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 07:25:42 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Question - Minefield Clearance In-Reply-To: <26055288.1155378669450.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26055288.1155378669450.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 06:31:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > Question 1: Confirming that AT and A-P mines can occupy the same hex and assuming a successful clearance attempt, is a trail break created through both types of minefield or are these subject to separate and pre-designated attempts? B28.5: "A-T Mines may compose a minefield hex of their own of from one to five factors, or be included in any strength from one to five factors in a normal A-P minefield." Therefore it seems to me that a hex contains only a single minefield, but that minefield might consist of both A-P and A-T Mines. Any clearance, trail break etc. applies to the single minefield (and thus to both types of Mines simultaneously). > Question 2: Entering a minefield via a partial trail break and then making a successful clearance roll, must you include the hexside through which you entered as one of the two hexsides where you are allowed to create the trail break? Rules say you can create the TB on any two hexsides thus ignoring the "temporary" TB used to enter the hex. Pretty clear but want to be sure. No. B24.74 says "any two hexsides of the ATTACKER's choice". > Question 3: A unit that entered a minefield for a clearance attempt is broken either by first fire or later by final defensive fire. I assume that unit is free to rout back out of the hex via the TB without triggering mines. Seems more or less clear but the rule book does not address broken units. If the unit is otherwise abiding by the Rout rules, sure. B24.74 says "Unless the minefield is cleared, these units may exit the minefield free of minefield attack only by the hexside through which they entered." The *reason* for exit, or the condition of the units, does not appear to be relevant .... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From dreenstra at comcast.net Sat Aug 12 15:27:34 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:27:34 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Rules Question - Minefield Clearance In-Reply-To: <26055288.1155378669450.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060812222729.749E31BB53@che.dreamhost.com> Hey Ray, You wrote: > > After yesterday's game in a reflective mood I got out the ASLRB to > check on the myriad of situations that came up in the course of my six > hour [with breaks] game of "Dragoons in Holland [NFNH-4] to make sure we > played correctly. I find this very helpful for future play as long as my > brain's memory cells hold their charge. > > Question 1: Confirming that AT and A-P mines can occupy the same > hex and assuming a successful clearance attempt, is a trail break created > through both types of minefield or are these subject to separate and pre- > designated attempts? B24.74 just talks about a TB being created and B28.61 lays out that both vehicles and infantry/cavalry can use the TB, these would lead me to conclude it applies to both types of mines in a hex. > > Question 2: Entering a minefield via a partial trail break and > then making a successful clearance roll, must you include the hexside > through which you entered as one of the two hexsides where you are allowed > to create the trail break? Rules say you can create the TB on any two > hexsides thus ignoring the "temporary" TB used to enter the hex. Pretty > clear but want to be sure. Yep, any two hexsides, doesn't have to include the hexside crossed by the partial TB. Interesting. > > Question 3: A unit that entered a minefield for a clearance > attempt is broken either by first fire or later by final defensive fire. > I assume that unit is free to rout back out of the hex via the TB without > triggering mines. Seems more or less clear but the rule book does not > address broken units. B24.74 says "exit the hex free of minefield attack", no specification on whether done by rout, advance or normal movement, so I concur with your assumption. > > "Zadra" (carefully probing the earth with his bayonet) "Click" HtH, Dave Reenstra From chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk Sun Aug 13 02:59:36 2006 From: chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk (Chris Netherton) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:59:36 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] SP061 Operation Exodus AAR Message-ID: <44DEF808.7040400@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Hello! This is an AAR for SP61 that's been sitting around on my hard drive for a few months due to football and sunshine induced memory loss! Went to Double One in London this May and played two games and had a lot of fun. I'd half written the AAR for the other scenario I played (J94 Kempf at Melikhovo) and seeing as we're having more traditional summer weather in Britain at the minute, I was going to try and finish it off. Unfortunately coming back to it three months later I realise that I now have no idea of how the game panned out!! Anyway, a belated thanks to Brendan for organising the tournament and an AAR for SP61. Chris SP061 Operation Exodus Played Operation Exodus as the attacking Commando's versus Chris Ager's defending Germans. This has four and a half 6-4-8s attacking five 4-4-7s, both sides get two leaders each. The commando's get two airborne mortars and three demo charges along with a hero who gets a handsome -3 DRM when he fires a LMG all by himself. The German's get two medium machine guns and a 9-1. The bridges over the board 23 canal don't exist and one of the German MMGs has to set up on this part of the map, to make up for this it is manned by a 2-2-8. To win the commando's have to clear a clutch of buildings in the centre of board 23 and to get there they have to cross half of board 44. Chris set up with a screen of units on the board 44 wood line defending the open ground I had to cross to get at him. Most of the territory I had to cover was open ground except on the British right where there was a thin line of trees that would let me get a bit closer. I plump for the obvious crossing. The plan is to use one mortar to place some smoke to reduce the effectiveness of cross fire from German units on my left and to cover a direct assault on the right. I aim to place the hero and his LMG on the left hand side of my assault to deter any German attempt to laterally reinforce his defence in the section of the map where I plan to attack. Turn one goes pretty well. I only get one Smoke round down but this is enough to deter Chris from firing, he elects to keep concealment and keep me guessing. I manage to get units right round to 44O1 and got a HS up to the 44M3 building which turned out to contain a HS and a squad. I rode my luck here as none of my units broke in the MPh or DFPh. My advancing fire broke the squad in 44M3 and we realised in the rout phase that grain was out of season so he had to surrender. I elected not to advance my HS into CC in 44M3 as he was now a guard in addition to being CX so I left the German HS to sweat it out for another turn. I brought a couple of units adjacent in the APh, moved my flanking units one hex closer to their goal and shifted the mortars as well. I put the LMG and hero in a position to interdict any attempts (however unlikely) to reinforce 44M3. In German turn 1 the HS failed to shift any of the commando's facing him and broke in DF. Elsewhere the Germans shuttled back from the British right and moved towards the buildings on board 23. One mistake I made here was not leaving my guards adjacent to 44M3 as it meant another unit had to accept the prisoners. In turn 2 I continued my left hook and managed to brave the DF flung at me and by the end of the MPh had one unit adjacent to the first victory building hex in 23J8. This contained a German squad and LMG. The commando LMG and hero was again on over watch duty and had his sights set on interdicting German movement across the road to the victory area from the south western corner of board 23. This area of the board was dominated by a large multi-storey wooden building (23E9-F9) that contained the German MMG and a leader. I was feeling reasonably happy as I felt I could prevent Chris from reinforcing the victory hexes, things were looking ok! I suffered a Pin result that prevented me from diving into CC and my AF did not have much effect so I was faced with a 12 FP flat attack in the up coming German Prep fire phase. Fortunately I managed to survive it! Little was I to know that this was the last phase that my 8 morale troops would be passing their checks! In DF I get a chance to hammer the German squad with a 20 up 2 fire group with both British leaders. I roll a six and another six. The Hero tries to make amends and fires 2 up 1 and I roll a six and then another six. Both LMGs broken! Turn 3. I fail to repair any of my broken SW and Prep succeeds in breaking the mortar that still had smoke. I try and dislodge the Germans in 23J8 as well, but this gets nowhere. I shuffle a few more troops forward, trying to AM into the open ground and soak up some fire. After German defensive fire and turn 3 prep most of the commando's are sulking in either the woods on the border of board 44 and board 23, or in the terraced housing in 23K7, L7 and M8. The lone stalwart is of course Corporal Hunter who is the only British unit to get to the centre of board 23. He awaits his fate in 23I9. In German turn 3 Chris fails to shift him and in DF he gets to show his mettle as he catches a squad trying to bypass. Unfortunately his LMG has long gone, but I roll low enough for a morale check and it's Chris' turn to roll boxcars. One conscript HS is the result! Turn 4. I get some of my units rallied and then break them again in the movement phase as Chris keeps up the pressure with his MMGs. However, I do manage to dash a HS (still carrying his broken, smokeless mortar) into 23i9. I actually manage to survive the DF and pile in for a ruck. We're both deadly in close combat and the end result is an empty building. In the RPh of German turn 4 I get HOB rallying my units and generate another hero. Chris tries to reinforce the victory buildings from 23E9 with his MMG and squad, but they end up pinned in the road. The 7-0 does get across and the last turn of the game gives us both a chance of victory! Turn 5. The only German's left in the centre of board 23 are all in 23H7. Chris has his 7-0 in the ground floor and a 9-1, LMG and squad upstairs. Virtually all of my units are 6MF or more away. I'm not going to be able to get to 23H7, overrun the 7-0 and whack the units upstairs in CC with the last throw of the game... However, one thing that I haven't tried yet, well three things actually, are the demo charges. Rumour has it that these can rubble buildings.... Unfortunately one is lying in the middle of a road junction. Anywho, my MMCs pass their charges to their SMCs and I prepare myself for a mad dash. Dodging the bullets my 9-1 delivers his present to the grateful German 7-0. I get a couple of units up close and personal, but one breaks in the 9-1's hex. The hero then charges up, casually throwing his DC into the mix before moving behind the German's into 23H6. My sniper gets activated which would have been a cruel way to end the game, but the MMG squad that got pinned in the road take it! By the end of the MPh we have to remove a lot of residual firepower counters; however there are two ominous ticking sounds emanating from the ground floor of 23H7. What's more I have a string of units around the hex which will give me an encircling shot after the DCs go off. Boooommm!! 2KIA. I need a subsequent dr of 1 to bring the whole lot down. I roll.... a 2! Damn! Second one goes off, but to no avail. My firegroup totals up to a 12 FP attack and encircles the Germans. I score a 1MC, but Chris pulls it off with style. The 9-1 makes it and the squad rolls just enough to stay in good order. The German's have it! A very enjoyable scenario, the first two turns went all my way, then Chris took over for the next two before the final showdown. From reamees at earthlink.net Sun Aug 13 11:55:46 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:55:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Rules Question - Minefield Clearance Message-ID: <1251740.1155495347160.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> That click was just an old C ration can. "Zadra" lives. Many thanks Dave and Bruce. I was really unsure about the clearance roll affecting both types of minefields. The other two questions were somewhat easier to answer. Maybe as prep for ASLOK I should choose scenarios that include chapter E stuff like night (help, Chuck). "Zadra" From pshelling at comcast.net Sun Aug 13 19:59:39 2006 From: pshelling at comcast.net (pshelling@comcast.net) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:59:39 +0000 Subject: [Aslml] (no subject) Message-ID: <081420060259.5902.44DFE71B0008173C0000170E220074818409020704040A089C9F@comcast.net> Ray wrote: >That click was just an old C ration can. "Zadra" lives. I think you are still a bit scared of minefields after that playing of 'Sylvan Death' last ASLOk..... From jpcole at westnet.com.au Mon Aug 14 08:17:01 2006 From: jpcole at westnet.com.au (Jon Cole) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:17:01 +0800 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: A10.51 rout question Message-ID: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> This just came up in a VASL game. Check out board 10. Grain is plowed fields. There is a broken DM squad in U1 that wants to rout. There is an enemy unit in 10Q2. Hex 10W1 is stone rubble. I contend that the brokie has to select V0 as the nearest in MF non-ignorable rout target(A10.51), and must rout there and stop, since W1 is rubble and so not a building trhat would allow rout to continue. My opponent feels he can rout into W1 on the way to X0, even though he would have to stop in W1 as it is 5MF to there. Thoughts on who's right or wrong. It's important as I'm trying to trap his squad up front and kill/capture it, rather then having it rout back TIA Cheers Jon From klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se Mon Aug 14 08:54:47 2006 From: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?Klas=20Malmstr=F6m?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:54:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Aslml] ASL: A10.51 rout question In-Reply-To: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: <20060814155447.85410.qmail@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi, --- Jon Cole skrev: > This just came up in a VASL game. Check out board 10. Grain is plowed > fields. There is a broken DM squad in U1 that wants to rout. There is an > enemy unit in 10Q2. Hex 10W1 is stone rubble. > > I contend that the brokie has to select V0 as the nearest in MF > non-ignorable rout target(A10.51), and must rout there and stop, since W1 is > rubble and so not a building trhat would allow rout to continue. > > My opponent feels he can rout into W1 on the way to X0, even though he would > have to stop in W1 as it is 5MF to there. > > Thoughts on who's right or wrong. I believe you are correct. The broken unit must stop in 10V0. I think that rule B24.1 is clear that a building totally reduced to rubble is no longer considered a building. Regards, Klas Malmstrom ------------------------------------------------------- Klas Malmstrom Linkoping, Sweden Email: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se ------------------------------------------------------- From rln22 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 14 09:32:49 2006 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Robert Nelson) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS In-Reply-To: <20060814155447.85410.qmail@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060814163249.56081.qmail@web53612.mail.yahoo.com> if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you still get to check the LOS? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From cduke at intelnett.com Mon Aug 14 09:52:47 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:52:47 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS References: <20060814163249.56081.qmail@web53612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c6bfc2$121933c0$671ea8c0@Duke> I think you actually check the LOS before rolling for the attack (or merely for possible malf if the LOS turns out to be blocked). Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nelson" To: "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS > if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you > still get to check the LOS? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From garciagd at velocity.net Mon Aug 14 10:08:06 2006 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:08:06 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS References: <20060814163249.56081.qmail@web53612.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c6bfc2$121933c0$671ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <001b01c6bfc4$38518680$3903010a@gecac.org> I would think you have to "fire" to see of LOS is blocked. So, you would check to see if there is LOS and either way roll for Malf, SAN, etc. Peace Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Duke" To: "Robert Nelson" ; "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS >I think you actually check the LOS before rolling for the attack (or merely > for possible malf if the LOS turns out to be blocked). > > Charles > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Nelson" > To: "ASL Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:32 AM > Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS > > >> if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you >> still get to check the LOS? >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> aslml mailing list >> aslml at lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From albcann at warwick.net Mon Aug 14 11:24:24 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:24:24 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL Board Sale Message-ID: <000701c6bfce$df590840$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Guys, I have a bunch of extra ASL boards that cost too much to sell on ebay. All of them are in excellent condition. They are $5 each plus shipping, I will ship anywhere, anyhow. If you buy 10 or more boards, I will pay for half the shipping cost up to $10. I have the following boards (board followed by quantity) 1x5, 2x6, 3x5, 3x4, 2x5, 3x8, 9, 10, 11, 3x12, 13, 14, 15, 3x16, 17, 2x18, 2x19, 3x20, 2x21, 3x22, 4x23, 24, 32, 38, 39, 40, 41. All are the mounted "old-style" ASL boards. Contact me off list if you are interested, Al From dreenstra at comcast.net Mon Aug 14 12:45:08 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:45:08 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: A10.51 rout question In-Reply-To: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: <20060814194512.1B5931BB48@che.dreamhost.com> Hi Jon, Maybe a little late to chime in on this, but... You wrote: > > This just came up in a VASL game. Check out board 10. Grain is plowed > fields. There is a broken DM squad in U1 that wants to rout. There is an > enemy unit in 10Q2. Hex 10W1 is stone rubble. > > I contend that the brokie has to select V0 as the nearest in MF > non-ignorable rout target(A10.51), and must rout there and stop, since W1 > is > rubble and so not a building trhat would allow rout to continue. Yep, sounds right to me. > > My opponent feels he can rout into W1 on the way to X0, even though he > would > have to stop in W1 as it is 5MF to there. Nope, as you say, the Rubble makes this no longer a building. There's an EXC at the end of A10.51 that allows a unit in a building to ignore another hex of that same building in calculating it's rout target. I've seen some players mistakenly extend this to include "same woods mass". Perhaps that's what your opponent is thinking of? > > Thoughts on who's right or wrong. You: right. Him: wrong. > > It's important as I'm trying to trap his squad up front and kill/capture > it, > rather then having it rout back Sounds like you have it trapped. HtH, Dave Reenstra > > > TIA > > Cheers > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From dreenstra at comcast.net Mon Aug 14 12:48:01 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:48:01 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS In-Reply-To: <20060814163249.56081.qmail@web53612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060814194804.DC1091BB73@che.dreamhost.com> Hi Robert, You wrote: > > if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you > still get to check the LOS? > Yep, A6.11 specifies that LOS is checked "after that attack has been declared". HtH, Dave Reenstra From scottielu at hotmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:20:12 2006 From: scottielu at hotmail.com (scott lucas) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Baptism by fire..sort of Message-ID: Hi all, I recently joined this list to assist in my learning curve into the ASL community. I have owned most of the modules for a few years and decided to finally crack'em open and learn the system. I ran into some fellas in the Wichita area who are avid players and openly welcomed me into their group. I played my first scenario Saturday, starting with Defiance on Hill 30 with the Americans. I learned a lot, including how to take a good whipping. Played a little reckless and senseless but had a blast doing it. Thanks for all the interesting insight, conversations, and questions via this listserv. Keep it up. Newbie -Scott From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 14 14:07:28 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:07:28 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: A10.51 rout question In-Reply-To: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:17:01 +0800, "Jon Cole" wrote: >This just came up in a VASL game. Check out board 10. Grain is plowed >fields. There is a broken DM squad in U1 that wants to rout. There is an >enemy unit in 10Q2. Hex 10W1 is stone rubble. > > I contend that the brokie has to select V0 as the nearest in MF >non-ignorable rout target(A10.51), and must rout there and stop, since W1 is >rubble and so not a building trhat would allow rout to continue. > >My opponent feels he can rout into W1 on the way to X0, even though he would >have to stop in W1 as it is 5MF to there. > >Thoughts on who's right or wrong. You are correct -- he cannot ignore the V0 woods, and he cannot select the rubble as a rout destination -- which means that he must stop the rout in V0. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From reamees at earthlink.net Mon Aug 14 14:53:15 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:53:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" Message-ID: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I dimly recall way back when that the online ASL community was on GEnie. Was this the first or only online group? If so, is this mailing list the successor (despite a few server changes) of the old GEnie communtiy? Cleaning out my desk (at home, not work) the other day I found some old dot matrix printouts I had made from GEnie and that got my curiosity up. "Zadra" From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 15:02:09 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:02:09 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2b8228f00608141502va4bbb7dk2458a15f9fbb0b61@mail.gmail.com> IIRC, GEnie had the first online ASL discussion list. I remember having access to this before I even had general internet access. This discussion group was soon followed by ones on CompuServe and AOL. I've been skimming my ASL Annuals recently and I saw GEnie mentioned in the 1991 edition as something new. On 8/14/06, Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > I dimly recall way back when that the online ASL community was on GEnie. Was this the first or only online group? If so, is this mailing list the successor (despite a few server changes) of the old GEnie communtiy? Cleaning out my desk (at home, not work) the other day I found some old dot matrix printouts I had made from GEnie and that got my curiosity up. > > "Zadra" > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From pferraro at greenepa.net Mon Aug 14 16:05:08 2006 From: pferraro at greenepa.net (Paul Ferraro) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:05:08 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I dimly recall way back when that the online ASL community was on > GEnie. Was this the first or only online group? If so, is this > mailing list the successor (despite a few server changes) of the old > GEnie communtiy? Cleaning out my desk (at home, not work) the other > day I found some old dot matrix printouts I had made from GEnie and > that got my curiosity up. I looked for something about this...I have it somewhere but haven't found it yet. Genie was probably the first. Later there was a fair bit of activity on usenet - but its been so long I can't recall the name of the newsgroup. I *think* after Genie (or concurrently at some point) the ASLML discussion list began in Chicago, the original owner's name escapes me. From there it migrated to Penn State and Carl Fago. When Carl was leaving Penn State, the "List" came to the University of Pittsburgh (and me). That was roughly 1994-95. The List was migrated again to a server controlled by MMP (this in roughly 1999), and still later to a server owned by Nat Mallet - I can't recall the date. Nat ran the list and began the ASL Forums. I was out of the admin business at that point. In early 2005, Nat had to give up his server space -- unless someone would take it over. The list is still in that location, but I was once again admin, with a great deal of help from the Enigmatic Dr. Marty Snow. Since that time (2005) the list has been supported (financially) from an anonymous benefactor. From damavs at alltel.net Mon Aug 14 16:56:25 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:56:25 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: References: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060814194124.01d58e78@alltel.net> Paul Ferraro wrote: >Genie was probably the first. Later there was a fair bit of activity on >usenet - but its been so long I can't recall the name of the newsgroup. I >*think* after Genie (or concurrently at some point) the ASLML discussion >list began in Chicago, the original owner's name escapes me. Actually the list began in Columbus, OH. Chris Farrell, who was from Cleveland BTW, was the original creator of the list while he was at "The Ohio State University". The list started as an offshoot of some of the discussions on rec.games.board I believe. Originally there was an "ASL Digest" which kind of evolved into an active list, but the digest itself continued on for awhile as an ASL cyber newsletter. I have a few old copies of "The ASL Digest". Volume 2 #10 was edited by John Foley and published July 3, 1992. Volume 2 #12 has John "retiring" as editor and turning over the publication to Brian Youse on July 31, 1992. There's a note that publication will change to monthly from every 2 weeks. The last one I have is from Brian labelled Volume 3 #5 on January 1, 1993. Unfortunately I don't have the first "ASL Digest" Chris published, so I can't date it precisely but it would have been the 2nd half of '91 to early '92. Volume 2 #10 does have a 16 man PBEM tourney with Round 1 being "Zon with the Wind". Entrants were: Eric Young, Martin Snow, Tim Van Sant, Darin Kent, Bernt Ribom, Chris Farrell, Bret Hildebran, Brian Youse, Carl Fago, Stuart Craig, Werner Staringer, Rich Campbell, Joe Sylvester, Rod Holmes, C(?) Powers & Robert Feinstein. Ah, memories... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From homercles11 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 14 17:21:51 2006 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:21:51 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Baptism by fire..sort of In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 CHeck out the above forum for some good stuff ----Original Message Follows---- From: "scott lucas" To: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Baptism by fire..sort of Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:20:12 -0500 Hi all, I recently joined this list to assist in my learning curve into the ASL community. I have owned most of the modules for a few years and decided to finally crack'em open and learn the system. I ran into some fellas in the Wichita area who are avid players and openly welcomed me into their group. I played my first scenario Saturday, starting with Defiance on Hill 30 with the Americans. I learned a lot, including how to take a good whipping. Played a little reckless and senseless but had a blast doing it. Thanks for all the interesting insight, conversations, and questions via this listserv. Keep it up. Newbie -Scott _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From jmmcleod at mts.net Mon Aug 14 17:32:23 2006 From: jmmcleod at mts.net (mcleods) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:32:23 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS References: <20060814163249.56081.qmail@web53612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401c6c002$48e6a320$fb27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Listerz, Robert wrotes, > if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you > still get to check the LOS? The cagey ASLer checks the dodgey LOS when he announces that he is going to make a "LOS shot" with his CMG, then he rolls the dice ... :) That said, I see nothing wrong with doing things the other way around. You made your intention known, rolled the 12 and are still entitled to see if the LOS is clear or blocked. =Jim= From aslwynn at rogers.com Mon Aug 14 17:42:30 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:42:30 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" References: Message-ID: <004801c6c003$b08a5b10$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Bill Gates? > Since that time > (2005) the list has been supported (financially) from an anonymous > benefactor. > Wynn "Certainly Wasn't Me" Polnicky From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Tue Aug 15 06:31:58 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Malf and checking LOS In-Reply-To: <003401c6c002$48e6a320$fb27c8cd@jims3ge2hz6irc> Message-ID: <20060815133158.29808.qmail@web34511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The pertinent rules quotation is: A9.7 SUPPORT WEAPON (SW) MALFUNCTION: Whenever a SW fires there is a chance it will jam or run out of ammunition............ The attack which caused the breakdown is still resolved [EXC: DC; 23.4] .........." The shot happens and the SW breaks down in the act of taking that shot. Taking the shot gives you the right to check the LOS. Jazz --- mcleods wrote: > Listerz, > > Robert wrotes, > > > > if your CMG busts while checking a tricky LOS, do you > > still get to check the LOS? > > The cagey ASLer checks the dodgey LOS when he announces that he is going to > make a "LOS shot" with his CMG, then he rolls the dice ... :) > > That said, I see nothing wrong with doing things the other way around. You > made your intention known, rolled the 12 and are still entitled to see if > the LOS is clear or blocked. > > > > > > =Jim= > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From aslwynn at rogers.com Tue Aug 15 07:12:41 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:12:41 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Gentle Listers; Recently played a scenario with No Quarter in effect. At start of Rout Phase a Disrupted squad is ADJACENT to an enemy GO squad. He has a rout path free of Interdiction. If NQ were not in effect he would have to surrender, but A20.3 (No Quarter) says that once a side declares No Quarter that " ... all other enemy units will subsequently use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid surrendering - even if Disrupted." However, A 19.12 states that "Disrupted units do not rout unless in an Open Ground (as per 10.531) or Water Obstacle hex (as per B21.43) or if the only armed enemy units ADJACENT are in-Melee/berserk/vehicular (20.21) and may not use Low Crawl [EXC: Night]" I take this sentence of A19.12 to no longer be in effect when No Quarter is in effect, right? So, when NQ is in effect is a disrupted unit ADJACENT to an enemy at the start of the Rout Phase allowed to rout normally? Seems to me that he can, but this is ASL so thought that I shoudl check; the ruoe does not appear clear to me. In any case, I don't like the wording of A 20.3 - if taken as all inclusive it means that the Diruptee can ONLY use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction. Or am I missing something? Wynn "No Fear" Polnicky From daveolie at eastlink.ca Tue Aug 15 13:34:27 2006 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:34:27 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <00eb01c6c0ab$5f019e40$b679de18@SR1820NX> Wynn wrote: > Recently played a scenario with No Quarter in effect. At start of Rout > Phase > a Disrupted squad is ADJACENT to an enemy GO squad. He has a rout path > free > of Interdiction. > > If NQ were not in effect he would have to surrender, but A20.3 (No > Quarter) > says that once a side declares No Quarter that " ... all other enemy > units > will subsequently use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid > surrendering - > even if Disrupted." I understand your reservations about the wording of A20.3, but it is the higher-numbered rule (ASLRB Intro, pg. ii), so I believe the disrupto-boys will rout as if not-disrupted in this situation. David "'disruption' sounds like a medical condition" Olie From aslwynn at rogers.com Tue Aug 15 13:57:43 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:57:43 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> <00eb01c6c0ab$5f019e40$b679de18@SR1820NX> Message-ID: <000d01c6c0ad$745d3ae0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> David; Ah yes, the old higher numbered rule trick (says Agent Maxwell Smart). Wynn "I told you not to ell me that" Polnicky ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Olie" To: "Wynn" ; "ASL Mailing List" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter > Wynn wrote: > >> Recently played a scenario with No Quarter in effect. At start of Rout >> Phase >> a Disrupted squad is ADJACENT to an enemy GO squad. He has a rout path >> free >> of Interdiction. >> >> If NQ were not in effect he would have to surrender, but A20.3 (No >> Quarter) >> says that once a side declares No Quarter that " ... all other enemy >> units >> will subsequently use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid >> surrendering - >> even if Disrupted." > > I understand your reservations about the wording of A20.3, but it is the > higher-numbered rule (ASLRB Intro, pg. ii), so I believe the disrupto-boys > will rout as if not-disrupted in this situation. > > David "'disruption' sounds like a medical condition" Olie > > From daveolie at eastlink.ca Tue Aug 15 13:46:42 2006 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:46:42 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Baptism by fire..sort of References: Message-ID: <010e01c6c0ad$77f83bf0$b679de18@SR1820NX> Welcome to The List, Scott. I think you'll find it useful, especially as traffic seems to be picking up lately. You're doing well to have local guys to play with. "Defiance" is a good one to start with; in fact, it was my first ASL scenario as well. Keep the questions and comments coming, and have fun. David "newbie welcoming committee" Olie From reamees at earthlink.net Tue Aug 15 17:02:28 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:02:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] ML "traffic seems to be picking up lately" Message-ID: <13308637.1155686548616.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> For those of us formerly in signals intelligence more traffic was always a bad sign but here it is probably a sign that: 1) lurkers like myself have come out from under the rocks 2) some people have gotten so mad, they can't take it any more 3) there is some new dish at IHOP 4) it is too hot outside to do anything but surf the web 5) gas prices forcing people to sit at home and surf the web 6) J7 is out 7) ASLOK is around the corner BTW...I too am grateful that we do have a sponsor for this list! "Zadra" From scott.holst at us.army.mil Tue Aug 15 18:01:47 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:01:47 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Looking for Raaco Containers Message-ID: Hi all- Anybody habve a few spare Raaco cases they would like to sell? Scott From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Tue Aug 15 19:18:06 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] ML "traffic seems to be picking up lately" In-Reply-To: <13308637.1155686548616.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060816021806.38411.qmail@web34510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tabby got kicked off the Forums......somewhere between 3) and 4) below.... --- Raymond Woloszyn wrote: > For those of us formerly in signals intelligence more traffic was always a bad sign but > here it is probably a sign that: > > 1) lurkers like myself have come out from under the rocks > 2) some people have gotten so mad, they can't take it any more > 3) there is some new dish at IHOP > 4) it is too hot outside to do anything but surf the web > 5) gas prices forcing people to sit at home and surf the web > 6) J7 is out > 7) ASLOK is around the corner > > BTW...I too am grateful that we do have a sponsor for this list! > > "Zadra" > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From daveolie at eastlink.ca Tue Aug 15 19:38:05 2006 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:38:05 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] ML "traffic seems to be picking up lately" References: <20060816021806.38411.qmail@web34510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014401c6c0dd$b78acc30$b679de18@SR1820NX> Jazz wrote: > Tabby got kicked off the Forums......somewhere between 3) and 4) > below.... Oh, jeez, not again. Was it the donkey this time? Or was it the underage Scandinavian lugers? Not that I really want to know. David "we serve all sorts" Olie From asl at howardhowardfine.com Tue Aug 15 21:28:58 2006 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: References: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060815232851.037ac3f0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Curt? At 06:05 PM 14/08/2006, Paul Ferraro wrote: >Since that time >(2005) the list has been supported (financially) from an anonymous >benefactor. From janusz.maxe at unf.se Tue Aug 15 22:18:55 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:18:55 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] FW: Disruptee Rout in No Quarter References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Janusz Maxe Sent: Tue 2006-08-15 23:06 To: Wynn Subject: RE: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter I think the 20.3 is trying to say that a unit will use low crawl or take interdiction, even in situations where they would normally surrender. A disrupted unit may not low crawl, and I don't think 20.3 tells me it just gained that ability. Otherwise, 19.12 would say "and may not use Low Crawl [EXC: Night or if NQ is in effect]". So my take is: The disruptee must rout but may not use low crawl. Janusz ________________________________ From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net on behalf of Wynn Sent: Tue 2006-08-15 16:12 To: ASL Mailing List Cc: gailreg at rogers.com Subject: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter Gentle Listers; Recently played a scenario with No Quarter in effect. At start of Rout Phase a Disrupted squad is ADJACENT to an enemy GO squad. He has a rout path free of Interdiction. If NQ were not in effect he would have to surrender, but A20.3 (No Quarter) says that once a side declares No Quarter that " ... all other enemy units will subsequently use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid surrendering - even if Disrupted." However, A 19.12 states that "Disrupted units do not rout unless in an Open Ground (as per 10.531) or Water Obstacle hex (as per B21.43) or if the only armed enemy units ADJACENT are in-Melee/berserk/vehicular (20.21) and may not use Low Crawl [EXC: Night]" I take this sentence of A19.12 to no longer be in effect when No Quarter is in effect, right? So, when NQ is in effect is a disrupted unit ADJACENT to an enemy at the start of the Rout Phase allowed to rout normally? Seems to me that he can, but this is ASL so thought that I shoudl check; the ruoe does not appear clear to me. In any case, I don't like the wording of A 20.3 - if taken as all inclusive it means that the Diruptee can ONLY use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction. Or am I missing something? Wynn "No Fear" Polnicky _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From kevinkenneally at isot.com Wed Aug 16 05:22:53 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:22:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060815232851.037ac3f0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> References: <9032607.1155592396125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6.2.0.14.2.20060815232851.037ac3f0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Message-ID: <3215.204.249.124.67.1155730973.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> > > Curt? NO. > > At 06:05 PM 14/08/2006, Paul Ferraro wrote: >>Since that time >>(2005) the list has been supported (financially) from an anonymous >>benefactor. > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From reamees at earthlink.net Wed Aug 16 10:07:32 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:07:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Jean Devaux' Death Message-ID: <20396531.1155748052472.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> If I am repeating known news I apologize. I just got word that French veteran ASL player, Jean Devaux, died last week in Paris. He was a mainstay of the French ASL scene and will be missed. RIP. On the Consim site Chas Argent found this memorial: http://cote1664.net/breve.php3?id_breve=59 Eric Miller translated it via Babelfish (if you read French, read the original): Jean "5+2" nous a quitt?? We have just learned with much sadness the death Jean Devaux. For young people among us who did not know it, Jean was one of the pillars of ASL in France, author of many articles and scenarios in the review Tactiques it had known to transmit his passion of ASL to a number among we who began at that time and read with greed his articles, only door of French-speaking entry in world ASL. Let us remember its articles written with Philippe Naud in the review Vae Victis "are not more afraid of the monster" which marked a whole time of the practice of ASL in France, of the articles which still today refer for which launches out to discovered of ASL. AUJOURD' TODAY I remember my first meeting with Jean, it was at the time of my very first tournament ASL in Toulouse, at the time of FireGroup 2001. I played since less than 6 months when Patrick Levy, one of the organizers, came to see me : "Your next part it is with Jean" "Jean ?" "Yes, Jean Devaux..." "That of Tactics ? ! ". I moved then, a timid hair you can imagine it, towards a table of schoolboy covered with Raaco boxes behind which that was cut off which for me had the appearance of a prophet. Since the 15 years age I read and read again until wear his articles in tactics, looking at the rare photographs of tournaments on which appeared wise to me, my well of learning of then, with its white beard and its famous tee-shirt "5+2". "You know your MG you should not put it there" "Ah you would put it where you me sior Devaux ?" I was on my chair of schoolboy and I learned much. These last years, Jean Devaux animated with Xavier Vitry the excellent review "the Frank Gunner" which you all know and in which we could with pleasure find his feather become famous. Today, we have just lost a figure of ASL and each player whom he has where nonknown Jean feels a deep sadness. All the team of Coast 1664, would like to join the pain of its family, her close relations and the drafting of the Frank Gunner in their presenting his more sincere condolences. Salut Jean "5+2". "Zadra" From cduke at intelnett.com Wed Aug 16 17:52:14 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:52:14 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] ATR Message-ID: <001701c6c197$61ac1d90$671ea8c0@Duke> *Just trying to start a friendly discussion here, not challenging any ASL rules, not asking for anything to be changed, etc.* What do the esteemed listers think of the role of the ATR in ASL? mainly in reference to its 1 FP against infantry (including a fabulous 12-hex interdiction area). Is it justified? Has someone seen an actual ATR, maybe even fired it (wow)? I think that an ATR would be less effective against infantry than a bolt action rifle, but that is just MHO (and unlearned). Charles From scott.holst at us.army.mil Wed Aug 16 18:12:24 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] I need a Life!! Message-ID: Hi all- A few weeks ago I managed to snage AbtF SS counter sheets, yaaaaaa! BUT I just could not bring myself to actually start punching the counters out, this is a well over a $100.00 investment, which I thought I'd never hear myself say. So, looking at all the extra counters I had laying around and goldbricking, I decided to scan in all my SS counter sheets and am about half done mounting the my copied version. Lots of work but If I take my time I'll have a set of nice and neatly clipped counters. Scott From bakken_80 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 16 19:15:17 2006 From: bakken_80 at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:15:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year Message-ID: Greets. This message is a duplicate of a post I made on SZO. My personal project continues, and once more I seek help from the unwashed ASL masses. (Oh wait, that's not until ASLOK...) Anyway, this time I am looking for release dates for all of the Official ASL modules. Not necessarily the specific day itself, but rather I would like to narrow it down to the month of release. The following is the list of Official modules, with the year of publication for each in parenthesis next to the title. Module 1: Beyond Valor (Dec 1985) Module 2: Paratrooper (1986) Module 3: Yanks (1987) Module 4: Partisan! (1987) Module 5: West of Alemein (1988) Module 6: The Last Hurrah (1988) Module 7: Hollow Legions (1989) Module 8: Code of Bushido (1991) Module 9: Gung Ho! (1992) Module 10: Croix de Guerre (1992) Module 11: Doomed Battalions (1998) Module 5a: For King and Country (2003) Module 12: Armies of Oblivion (Jan 2006) Module 1a: Beyond Valor 3rd Ed (2006) Deluxe Module 1: Streets of Fire (1985) Deluxe Module 2: Hedgerow Hell (1987) Historical Module 1: Red Barricades (1990) Historical Module 2: Kampfgruppe Peiper I (1993) Historical Module 3: Kampfgruppe Peiper II (1996) Historical Module 4: Pegasus Bridge (1997) Historical Module 5: Blood Reef: Tarawa (1999) Historical Module 6: A Bridge Too Far (1999) Historical Study #1: Operation Watchtower (2001) Historical Study #2: Operation Veritable (2003) What I am hoping (and I know it might be a tall order) is to establish the month that each module was released (i.e., sent to the first customers, whether it be preorder customers or the general public.) Failing that, I would like to at least get it narrowed down to the season, e.g. Winter 1993. Also, if any of the years listed above are incorrect, please let me know. Ooh, can it be done? I am hoping so! This information will be included in a compilation (the same compilation containing The General information requested last month or so) I am making for my personal use, and which I will make freely available to the public upon completion. So come on groggies, collectors and aficionados! I will be grateful for any help I can get to complete my project... Thanks in advance. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dreenstra at comcast.net Thu Aug 17 07:49:17 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:49:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060817144949.73B651BBA7@che.dreamhost.com> Tarawa and ABtF were both released at ASLOK '99. The drive back from OH was very cramped that year, I think between 3 of us we picked up at least 8 copies of each. OWT would have been in the Fall of 2001, or right at the end of the year. I know I was PT'ing/proofing those scenarios the summer of '01 I spent doing a grad school internship in Burlington, VT. OVHS was January of 2003, I think it debuted at WO that year. DB, I show my first playing of a scenario from this module occurred on October 17th, 1998. I didn't attend ASLOK that year, so I'm thinking it came out in Sept/Oct. HtH, Dave Reenstra > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] > On Behalf Of Bruce Bakken > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:15 PM > To: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net > Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year > > Greets. This message is a duplicate of a post I made on SZO. > > My personal project continues, and once more I seek help from the unwashed > ASL masses. (Oh wait, that's not until ASLOK...) > > Anyway, this time I am looking for release dates for all of the Official > ASL > modules. Not necessarily the specific day itself, but rather I would like > to > narrow it down to the month of release. > > The following is the list of Official modules, with the year of > publication > for each in parenthesis next to the title. > > Module 1: Beyond Valor (Dec 1985) > Module 2: Paratrooper (1986) > Module 3: Yanks (1987) > Module 4: Partisan! (1987) > Module 5: West of Alemein (1988) > Module 6: The Last Hurrah (1988) > Module 7: Hollow Legions (1989) > Module 8: Code of Bushido (1991) > Module 9: Gung Ho! (1992) > Module 10: Croix de Guerre (1992) > Module 11: Doomed Battalions (1998) > Module 5a: For King and Country (2003) > Module 12: Armies of Oblivion (Jan 2006) > Module 1a: Beyond Valor 3rd Ed (2006) > > Deluxe Module 1: Streets of Fire (1985) > Deluxe Module 2: Hedgerow Hell (1987) > > Historical Module 1: Red Barricades (1990) > Historical Module 2: Kampfgruppe Peiper I (1993) > Historical Module 3: Kampfgruppe Peiper II (1996) > Historical Module 4: Pegasus Bridge (1997) > Historical Module 5: Blood Reef: Tarawa (1999) > Historical Module 6: A Bridge Too Far (1999) > > Historical Study #1: Operation Watchtower (2001) > Historical Study #2: Operation Veritable (2003) > > > What I am hoping (and I know it might be a tall order) is to establish the > month that each module was released (i.e., sent to the first customers, > whether it be preorder customers or the general public.) Failing that, I > would like to at least get it narrowed down to the season, e.g. Winter > 1993. > Also, if any of the years listed above are incorrect, please let me know. > > Ooh, can it be done? I am hoping so! > > This information will be included in a compilation (the same compilation > containing The General information requested last month or so) I am making > for my personal use, and which I will make freely available to the public > upon completion. > > So come on groggies, collectors and aficionados! I will be grateful for > any > help I can get to complete my project... > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Bruce Bakken > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From reamees at earthlink.net Thu Aug 17 09:03:49 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:03:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Jean, mon amie-C'est Toujours ASL Player Formidable! Message-ID: <17556720.1155830629821.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I thought Kent was from California. Years ago at the heigh SL-GI Don Munsell from Charlotte, NC got killed in a car crash. & nbsp; Are you not thinking of him? Don started the first SL game specific tournament that pre-dated ASLOK a dedicated some of the early ASLOKs to him. Last year another California player, Cloyde Angell, whom many knew, di With the graying of some of original wargamers from the sixties, there than less. "Zadra" -----Original Message----- From: bill wiesing Sent: Aug 17, 2006 11:04 AM To: reamees at ear Subject: Jean, mon amie-C'est Toujours ASL Player Formidable Ray, I never met Jean, but did correspond with him regarding some of his ar It was always great to hear from him! I, and the ASL community at large-have suffered a great loss. Perhaps, he will at last meet another long past SL/ASL player from Nor Kent Smoak, will play the winner perhaps! Good bye, Old Friend, keep the dice warm for me! Bill Wiesing ______________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [1] (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or le References 1. 3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/tagl From janusz.maxe at unf.se Thu Aug 17 14:02:25 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:02:25 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading Message-ID: B25.6 isn't perfectly clear to me: "Building Blazes spread horizontally and vertically, but not diagonally." Q1:A single story house is ablaze. Next to it, adjacent, is a multi-story building. Can the blaze spread diagonally to any of the levels of the adjacent building, or only to the ground level? Q2: Does the answer change if the blaze is in a rubble? TIA Janusz From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Thu Aug 17 14:11:32 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Janusz Maxe wrote: > B25.6 isn't perfectly clear to me: > "Building Blazes spread horizontally and vertically, but not diagonally." > Q1:A single story house is ablaze. Next to it, adjacent, is a > multi-story building. Can the blaze spread diagonally to any of the > levels of the adjacent building, or only to the ground level? > > Q2: Does the answer change if the blaze is in a rubble? > A Level 0 blaze can spread to Level 0 in the adjacent hexes. Level 0 of one hex can't spread to Level 1 of a different hex. The fact that rubble terrain is only half a level high is irrelevant. Grain isn't even that tall and it can still spread to other hexes of the same level. So the answer to both questions is no. Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From aslwynn at rogers.com Thu Aug 17 15:45:17 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:45:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Village Terrain (Narrow Roads) and A-T Mines References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec><000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <005a01c6c24e$d004a200$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Gents; Looking for confirmation of my understanding below... Are (A-T) mines on paved hexside roads (B31.142) less able to be hidden than other mines? B31.142 says that they "must be placed on-map revealed (i.e. with the type and strength of that type of minefield displayed) unless all the Narrow Street hexsides of that hex are also Crest Line hexsides formed by lower-Base-Level hexes." B28.53 addresses placement in 'normal' paved road locations, saying that "... their presence must be marked with an A-T mine although the number of A-T mine factors is revealed per A12.33..." Seems odd to me, especially in light of A12.33 which denies all minefields HIP status even when out of LOS. Wynn "Likes Surprise Booms" Polnicky From play_asl_838 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 18 05:54:30 2006 From: play_asl_838 at yahoo.com (kevin meyer) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060818125430.19622.qmail@web60917.mail.yahoo.com> West of Alemein - August 1988 at Origins/GenCon, they were held together in Milwaukee. Picked up 2 copies, one for me and one for a friend. The Last Hurrah - would most likely be November/Decemeber of 1988. Wasn't available at ASLOK that year, but I do remember some playtesting of the scenarios going on. Code of Bushido - I think this was a Decemeber release also. Avalon Hill liked to make the holidays fun. Kevin Meyer --- Bruce Bakken wrote: > Greets. This message is a duplicate of a post I > made on SZO. > > My personal project continues, and once more I seek > help from the unwashed > ASL masses. (Oh wait, that's not until ASLOK...) > > Anyway, this time I am looking for release dates for > all of the Official ASL > modules. Not necessarily the specific day itself, > but rather I would like to > narrow it down to the month of release. > > The following is the list of Official modules, with > the year of publication > for each in parenthesis next to the title. > > Module 1: Beyond Valor (Dec 1985) > Module 2: Paratrooper (1986) > Module 3: Yanks (1987) > Module 4: Partisan! (1987) > Module 5: West of Alemein (1988) > Module 6: The Last Hurrah (1988) > Module 7: Hollow Legions (1989) > Module 8: Code of Bushido (1991) > Module 9: Gung Ho! (1992) > Module 10: Croix de Guerre (1992) > Module 11: Doomed Battalions (1998) > Module 5a: For King and Country (2003) > Module 12: Armies of Oblivion (Jan 2006) > Module 1a: Beyond Valor 3rd Ed (2006) > > Deluxe Module 1: Streets of Fire (1985) > Deluxe Module 2: Hedgerow Hell (1987) > > Historical Module 1: Red Barricades (1990) > Historical Module 2: Kampfgruppe Peiper I (1993) > Historical Module 3: Kampfgruppe Peiper II (1996) > Historical Module 4: Pegasus Bridge (1997) > Historical Module 5: Blood Reef: Tarawa (1999) > Historical Module 6: A Bridge Too Far (1999) > > Historical Study #1: Operation Watchtower (2001) > Historical Study #2: Operation Veritable (2003) > > > What I am hoping (and I know it might be a tall > order) is to establish the > month that each module was released (i.e., sent to > the first customers, > whether it be preorder customers or the general > public.) Failing that, I > would like to at least get it narrowed down to the > season, e.g. Winter 1993. > Also, if any of the years listed above are > incorrect, please let me know. > > Ooh, can it be done? I am hoping so! > > This information will be included in a compilation > (the same compilation > containing The General information requested last > month or so) I am making > for my personal use, and which I will make freely > available to the public > upon completion. > > So come on groggies, collectors and aficionados! I > will be grateful for any > help I can get to complete my project... > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Bruce Bakken > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dreenstra at comcast.net Fri Aug 18 06:04:51 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:04:51 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Village Terrain (Narrow Roads) and A-T Mines In-Reply-To: <005a01c6c24e$d004a200$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <20060818130452.5EAFB1BB4E@che.dreamhost.com> Hi Wynn, You wrote: > > Gents; > > Looking for confirmation of my understanding below... > > Are (A-T) mines on paved hexside roads (B31.142) less able to be hidden > than > other mines? In short, yes. > > B31.142 says that they "must be placed on-map revealed (i.e. with the type > and strength of that type of minefield displayed) unless all the Narrow > Street hexsides of that hex are also Crest Line hexsides formed by > lower-Base-Level hexes." Correct, which seems to say that they don't even get HIP while out of all enemy unit LOS (unlike, say a Roadblock). > > B28.53 addresses placement in 'normal' paved road locations, saying that > "... their presence must be marked with an A-T mine although the number of > A-T mine factors is revealed per A12.33..." Which is a little odd, since A12.33 says that, even with Searching, the strength of minefields is not revealed, only their presence. Nothing in A12.33 addresses how the strength of a minefield can be determined. I think that rules ref is in error. > > Seems odd to me, especially in light of A12.33 which denies all minefields > HIP status even when out of LOS. I think this is the source of your confusion. The EXC in A12.33 regarding minefields refers you to B28.1, which allows for minefield type, strength and Location to be secretly recorded (depending on terrain of the hex they are placed). So, various aspects of AT-Mine can be hidden, depending on the terrain they are placed in. In all legal terrain other than Paved Roads (including Narrow Streets) Location, type and strength are secretly recorded. In normal Paved Road hexes, Location and type are revealed (placed in full view), but not strength. In Narrow Street hexes with Paved Road hexsides (unless those hexsides are also Crest Lines of lower-Base-Level hexes), neither Location, type nor strength can be hidden. HtH, Dave Reenstra > > Wynn "Likes Surprise Booms" Polnicky > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bakken_80 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 06:58:17 2006 From: bakken_80 at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:58:17 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Tarawa and ABtF were both released at ASLOK '99. The drive back from OH >was >very cramped that year, I think between 3 of us we picked up at least 8 >copies of each. > >OWT would have been in the Fall of 2001, or right at the end of the year. >I >know I was PT'ing/proofing those scenarios the summer of '01 I spent doing >a >grad school internship in Burlington, VT. > >OVHS was January of 2003, I think it debuted at WO that year. > >DB, I show my first playing of a scenario from this module occurred on >October 17th, 1998. I didn't attend ASLOK that year, so I'm thinking it >came out in Sept/Oct. > Thanks for the info, Dave! Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bakken_80 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 06:59:03 2006 From: bakken_80 at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:59:03 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Official Module Publication Month/Year In-Reply-To: <20060818125430.19622.qmail@web60917.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > >West of Alemein - August 1988 at Origins/GenCon, they >were held together in Milwaukee. Picked up 2 copies, >one for me and one for a friend. >The Last Hurrah - would most likely be >November/Decemeber of 1988. Wasn't available at ASLOK >that year, but I do remember some playtesting of the >scenarios going on. >Code of Bushido - I think this was a Decemeber release > >also. Avalon Hill liked to make the holidays fun. > Thanks for the information, Kevin! Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From aslwynn at rogers.com Fri Aug 18 11:05:50 2006 From: aslwynn at rogers.com (Wynn) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:05:50 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Village Terrain (Narrow Roads) and A-T Mines Message-ID: <000401c6c2f0$f0adcf20$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Dave; Actually, the interpretation you gave below is what caused my confusion - I found it hard to believe that that was what was meant. Just another weird ASLism I guess - mines in a paved road 1000m behind the lines and out of LOS are fully known (existence, type and strength), while an 88LL can sit in the open HIP as long as it it out of LOS. Oh well...back to the game. Wynn "Central Stalingrad Sucks -Too Many Paved Roads" Polnicky > > So, various aspects of AT-Mine can be hidden, depending on the terrain > they > are placed in. In all legal terrain other than Paved Roads (including > Narrow Streets) Location, type and strength are secretly recorded. In > normal Paved Road hexes, Location and type are revealed (placed in full > view), but not strength. In Narrow Street hexes with Paved Road hexsides > (unless those hexsides are also Crest Lines of lower-Base-Level hexes), > neither Location, type nor strength can be hidden. > > HtH, > Dave Reenstra > > >> >> Wynn "Likes Surprise Booms" Polnicky >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aslml mailing list >> aslml at lists.aslml.net >> http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >> To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > From reamees at earthlink.net Fri Aug 18 13:59:53 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:59:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] Friday ASL Double-Header (J105-6) Message-ID: <21572749.1155934793595.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Played hooky from work today to play the new Journal #7 scenarios "Borodino Train Station" and "Marders not Martyrs". Again it was my regular opponent, Dave Stephens, who fell victim twice as the Russians. The only thing that pulled into Borodino station was the Russian funeral train. Dave held back a second wave but I think he needed to put more men on board in the first turn and risk a few flanking moves to try to interdict the German turn one reinforcements. A human wave might work but I am unsure if you can launch it from off board. That will be tonight's homework unless someone knows it for sure and will answer me. "Martyrs" gave the Russians Orthodox a few more to celebrate on Sunday as all four KV I's went down to excellent gunnery by Feldwebel Woloschin. Only one kill was achieved with APDS; the rest with regular 75L shots (six to shock or immobilize). One Marder was rushed by two KV's and a swarm of infantry. I pivoted and shocked one KV two hexes away at which point Dave drove up another two hexes away and outside of the Marder's covered arc. I was not too worried with prep fire coming up for the Germans but the shocked KV recovered and I was facing down two KV's with regular AP. No problem as the Feldwebel dispatched both in the ensuing prep fire phase which included an intensive fire while pivoting critical hit. The Marders never got HE (with four barrel rings go figure) and the next turn saw a Russian squad and -1 leader jump in for CC and promptly roll a 12 killing the leader. After that it was pretty much over as the Marders used AP to keep the disheartened Russians infantry at bay. Of the two I liked "Marders" the best but it is a tank battle with luck playing a bigger roll than in "Borodino" which seems to be a little tough on the Russians. Try 'em, you'll like 'em. "Zadra" From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 18 18:45:47 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:45:47 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Disruptee Rout in No Quarter In-Reply-To: <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> References: <000301c6bfb4$b15ae360$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> <000e01c6c074$df3e4fe0$26c0c445@D56LBC31> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:12:41 -0400, "Wynn" wrote: >Recently played a scenario with No Quarter in effect. At start of Rout Phase >a Disrupted squad is ADJACENT to an enemy GO squad. He has a rout path free >of Interdiction. > >If NQ were not in effect he would have to surrender, but A20.3 (No Quarter) >says that once a side declares No Quarter that " ... all other enemy units >will subsequently use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid surrendering - >even if Disrupted." However, A 19.12 states that "Disrupted units do not >rout unless in an Open Ground (as per 10.531) or Water Obstacle hex (as per >B21.43) or if the only armed enemy units ADJACENT are >in-Melee/berserk/vehicular (20.21) and may not use Low Crawl [EXC: Night]" I >take this sentence of A19.12 to no longer be in effect when No Quarter is in >effect, right? Right. >So, when NQ is in effect is a disrupted unit ADJACENT to an enemy at the >start of the Rout Phase allowed to rout normally? Not only "is allowed to", but "must". >In any case, I don't like the wording of A20.3 Don't be silly -- A20 is a perfect rule that absolutely needs no rewriting for clarity, no sirree. [WARNING: some or all of the above statements may contain what is commonly known as "sarcasm".] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 18 18:54:40 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:54:40 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:02:25 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >B25.6 isn't perfectly clear to me: >"Building Blazes spread horizontally and vertically, but not diagonally." > >Q1:A single story house is ablaze. Next to it, adjacent, is a multi-story building. Can the blaze spread diagonally Hmm ... let's see .... The rule says "not diagonally". The question asks "is diagonally allowed?" Well, class, can we guess what the answer to the question might be? Next week, we get to answer such brain-twisters as "if a rule says I should roll two dice, how many dice should I roll?" and "A10.4 says that broken units may not attack in any way. What sort of attacks may a broken unit make?" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 18 19:02:46 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:02:46 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:11:32 -0600 (MDT), Marty Snow wrote: >A Level 0 blaze can spread to Level 0 in the adjacent hexes. Level 0 of >one hex can't spread to Level 1 of a different hex. Well ... that's not exactly true. Generally, a fire in a L0 hex can spread to burnable terrain in an adjacent L1 hill hex. B25.6 does make the distinction that the "not diagonally" rule only applies to *building* terrain. This does mean that a blaze at ground level in 15Q8 can only spread up to 15Q8L1, or across to 15R8L1, but not to 15R8L0 or 15R8L2 (see the diagram on p.B25). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 18 19:07:14 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:07:14 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Friday ASL Double-Header (J105-6) In-Reply-To: <21572749.1155934793595.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <21572749.1155934793595.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4bsce216dnucnvhs8p4051ckkhvpc3qls9@4ax.com> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:59:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Raymond Woloszyn wrote: >A human wave might work but I am unsure if you can launch it from off board. Only if permitted by SSR. Normally at least one of the units in the HW requires LOS to an Enemy unit (A25.23), and we all know there is no LOS to/from an offboard Location (A2.51). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 18 19:24:04 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:24:04 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Village Terrain (Narrow Roads) and A-T Mines In-Reply-To: <20060818130452.5EAFB1BB4E@che.dreamhost.com> References: <005a01c6c24e$d004a200$26c0c445@D56LBC31> <20060818130452.5EAFB1BB4E@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:04:51 -0400, "David Reenstra" wrote: >> B28.53 addresses placement in 'normal' paved road locations, saying that >> "... their presence must be marked with an A-T mine although the number of >> A-T mine factors is revealed per A12.33..." > >Which is a little odd, since A12.33 says that, even with Searching, the >strength of minefields is not revealed, only their presence. Nothing in >A12.33 addresses how the strength of a minefield can be determined. I think >that rules ref is in error. I agree that this appears to be an error in B28.53. Not a big error in the overall scheme of things, but one of those little things that ought to be cleaned up nonetheless. >So, various aspects of AT-Mine can be hidden, depending on the terrain they >are placed in. In all legal terrain other than Paved Roads Also bridges, runways and ice. >(including Narrow Streets) Location, type and strength are secretly recorded. In >normal Paved Road hexes, Location and type are revealed (placed in full >view), but not strength. In Narrow Street hexes with Paved Road hexsides >(unless those hexsides are also Crest Lines of lower-Base-Level hexes), >neither Location, type nor strength can be hidden. I concur. Note however that although they are "more visible", they are "less removable" -- the B28.53 removal process is NA! They are also the only types of mines that can attack a unit moving in a *different* hex to the one containing the minefield. [I'm reminded of an old "Paranoia" adventure where the player-characters are required to setup a defensive perimeter using some supplied mines. Unfortunately, when they activate the mines (from a central control box) each mine sprouts little legs and then runs off in a random direction. They are "smart" mines -- they detonate when they think they should (which in "Paranoia" translates to "whenever it is comedically appropriate").] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From dreenstra at comcast.net Fri Aug 18 19:31:58 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:31:58 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Friday ASL Double-Header (J105-6) In-Reply-To: <21572749.1155934793595.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060819023159.E68E61BB39@che.dreamhost.com> Hi Ray, You wrote: > > The only thing that pulled into Borodino station was the Russian > funeral train. Dave held back a second wave but I think he needed to put > more men on board in the first turn and risk a few flanking moves to try > to interdict the German turn one reinforcements. A human wave might work > but I am unsure if you can launch it from off board. That will be > tonight's homework unless someone knows it for sure and will answer me. > By A25.23 at least one of the units that will participate in the HW must have LOS to a KEU at the start of its MPh. No LOS between onboard and offboard locations, so that would be a "No". Same holds true for Banzai. HtH, Dave Reenstra From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Aug 19 03:40:55 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:40:55 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading References: Message-ID: And not only to building terrain, but only if the BLAZE is in a building. So, say 15Q8 is rubbled. Can the blaze in your example now spread to all elevels of R8, ground, first and second? Janusz ________________________________ From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net on behalf of Bruce Probst Sent: Sat 2006-08-19 04:02 To: Marty Snow Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] fire spreading On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:11:32 -0600 (MDT), Marty Snow wrote: >A Level 0 blaze can spread to Level 0 in the adjacent hexes. Level 0 of >one hex can't spread to Level 1 of a different hex. Well ... that's not exactly true. Generally, a fire in a L0 hex can spread to burnable terrain in an adjacent L1 hill hex. B25.6 does make the distinction that the "not diagonally" rule only applies to *building* terrain. This does mean that a blaze at ground level in 15Q8 can only spread up to 15Q8L1, or across to 15R8L1, but not to 15R8L0 or 15R8L2 (see the diagram on p.B25). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From afantozzi at tiscali.it Fri Aug 18 16:51:08 2006 From: afantozzi at tiscali.it (Andrea) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:51:08 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Mortar and hedges Message-ID: <000201c6c3e6$9a185c60$0f105452@andrea> Dear Listers, Assume a Woods hex contains a 1S Foxhole (but no enemy units); a same-level Mortar could fire at that hex by adding +2 for case K (to discover any HIP units therein, for example). Now, assume there is that same 1S Foxhole behind a Hedge. A same level (non adjacent) mortar wouldn't be able to see units beneath the Foxhole but it would be able to see the Foxhole itself (as specified B9.21). Therefore I assume that it could fire against that Foxhole by adding the usual +2 for case K. Then, re-readind some old emails, I found this answer (to a similar question) by Ole Boe: >Mortar: The unit *can* be hit *if* "... that shot hit the non-hidden enemy >target that currently was the hardest for it to hit" (C3.33) >This means that for the mortar to hit the unit out of LOS [due to being beneath a Foxhole behind a hedge], there *must* be >at least one unit in LOS in that hex, and all those units in LOS must be >hit. See the C3.33 ex for an example. I do not think this answer is correct. I understand the logic but the two situations I presented are identical. The Mortar has in both cases LOS to the Foxole (but no LOS to any unit beneath the Foxhole), so it should be able to fire at that Foxhole in the same way... What do you think? Andrea Fantozzi from Italy -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 09/08/2006 From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 19 16:47:54 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:47:54 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:40:55 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >And not only to building terrain, but only if the BLAZE is in a building. >So, say 15Q8 is rubbled. Can the blaze in your example now spread to all elevels of R8, ground, first and second? Well, we know diagonal spreading is NA, right? So spreading only occurs up, down, or sideways. Up/down is NA here, which only leaves sideways. The rubble blaze is at ground level. It can only spread sideways to other burnable terrain *at ground level*, even if that ground level is not at the same elevation. You can't "skip" levels. There has to be a connection. Now that the hex is rubbled, there is no connection to the upper levels of the rest of the building. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Aug 19 17:59:12 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:59:12 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading References: Message-ID: >Well, we know diagonal spreading is NA, right? No, I don't think we know that. The rule says "building blazes spread horizontally and verically", thus a non-building blaze, such as the rubble in my example, can. It is adjacent to all elevels of the building in R8, and 25.6 says "adjacent", not ADJACENT. >So spreading only occurs up, down, or sideways. To all adjacent locations, thus also diagonally. You can't "skip" levels. There has to be a connection. Now that the hex is rubbled, there is no connection to the upper levels of the rest of the building. Where do you find this "has to be a connection"? I can't find any such rule, but it would make everything much clearer. Janusz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you're STUCK HERE!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Aug 19 18:02:45 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:02:45 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] stukas diving Message-ID: Since the rule for diving stukas states that everyone in the target hex is pinned following the first MG-attack, does this remove FFNAM and FFMO for the second MG and bomb attack (unless the target breaks)? Janusz From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 19 19:35:31 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:35:31 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5vffe29ge78t7d3idomlji4b9proj83obv@4ax.com> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:59:12 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Where do you find this "has to be a connection"? I can't find any such rule, but it would make everything much clearer. Well, I humbly apologise; you have a valid point. B25.6 says "any adjacent Burnable Terrain Location". It then goes on to say that blazes in buildings cannot spread diagonally, and it also says that woods and orchard fires only spread from one ground level Location to another. Other types of burnable terrain are not given any specific mention so the general rule (as above) would presumably apply. I retract my previous comments. In summary the rule appears to be: Building Blazes spread only vertically or horizontally. It's unclear whether this means that a Blaze in 2M9 (level 0 building) is allowed to spread to 2L8 (level 1 woods). It's not helped by the fact that B25.6 says that 2M9 is a woods hex! IF we assume that this was just a typo for "wooden building", this would imply that such spreading is legal, and we could then further assume that a Blaze in 41V8L0 (at level 0) could spread to 41V7L0 (which is at level 1); a Blaze in 41V8L1 could *also* spread to 41V7L0 -- but not to 41V7L1. Woods and orchard fires spread only at ground level (even if ground level changes elevation). This appears to be mercifully clear -- a Blaze in 2H8 (level 0 woods) may spread to 2H7 (level 0 woods) or 2I8 (level 1 woods). A Blaze in 3L1 (level 0 woods) may spread to the 3M2L0 building Location, but not to 3M2L1 or 3M2L2. All other terrain Blazes may spread to *any* adjacent Burnable Terrain Locations. Thus a Blaze in 3L2 (level 0 grain) may spread to 3M2L0, 3M2L1 and 3M2L2. This also is very clear; what is not clear is why they are different to woods and orchard fires! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 19 19:46:29 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:46:29 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Mortar and hedges In-Reply-To: <000201c6c3e6$9a185c60$0f105452@andrea> References: <000201c6c3e6$9a185c60$0f105452@andrea> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:51:08 +0200, "Andrea" wrote: >Assume a Woods hex contains a 1S Foxhole (but no enemy units); a same-level >Mortar could fire at that hex by adding +2 for case K (to discover any HIP >units therein, for example). OK. It won't discover anyone *in* the foxhole, though, because it has no LOS to them. >Now, assume there is that same 1S Foxhole behind a Hedge. A same level (non >adjacent) mortar wouldn't be able to see units beneath the Foxhole but it >would be able to see the Foxhole itself (as specified B9.21). Therefore I >assume that it could fire against that Foxhole by adding the usual +2 for >case K. Yes, but it can't hit anyone *in* the foxhole (because they are out of LOS) -- *unless* there is someone else in the hex who *is* in LOS. >Then, re-readind some old emails, I found this answer (to a similar >question) by Ole Boe: > >>Mortar: The unit *can* be hit *if* "... that shot hit the non-hidden enemy >>target that currently was the hardest for it to hit" (C3.33) >>This means that for the mortar to hit the unit out of LOS [due to being >>beneath a Foxhole behind a hedge], there *must* be >>at least one unit in LOS in that hex, and all those units in LOS must be >>hit. See the C3.33 ex for an example. > >I do not think this answer is correct. I'm sorry, but it is. >What do you think? The MTR can fire at the foxhole to its heart's content. The foxhole is not out of LOS. It is the *contents* of the foxhole that are out of LOS, and thus immune (unless there is someone else not in the foxhole who can be hit, as above). The foxhole behind the hedge is a "closed door" made of some impenetrable substance. You can shoot at the door all you like. You still don't get to hurt anyone behind it, unless you can see someone else is standing in front of the door, because they've left it ajar (people can be so rude sometimes). Note that if you have OBA of sufficient calibre, you might be able to blow the door off its hinges (B2.1), in which case anyone who was previously out of LOS will now be visible .... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Aug 19 19:59:59 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:59:59 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] stukas diving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:02:45 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >Since the rule for diving stukas states that everyone in the target hex is pinned following the first MG-attack, does this remove FFNAM and FFMO for the second MG and bomb attack (unless the target breaks)? Do you think that A7.83 is lying? If not, then you must agree that being Pinned means that you are not subject to FFNAM/FFMO. It does not say that this is in any way conditional on *how* you became Pinned. The Stuka rules do not mention any EXC to A7.83, so far as I can tell. So why would you think that A7.83 might suddenly become NA? [Note E7.43: "... any applicable DRM for movement (such as FFMO/FFNAM ...) are applicable only to those target units that happen to be moving ... at the time of the attack." Hence, if there are two squads in the hex, but only one of them was moving at the time of the Stuka attack, the non-moving one will not suffer FFMO/FFNAM DRM even if the initial Stuka attack breaks it.] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From albcann at warwick.net Sun Aug 20 05:55:00 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:55:00 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Red Barricades CG III Message-ID: <003c01c6c457$db878b50$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Guys, I have a question concerning Red Barricades CG III combat purchase points. I've dusted off a copy of the ASL Annual '91 and have been following a playtest series replay for CG III that appeared in that issue. The players have noted the number of CPP's they have spent prior to each scenario and I am having trouble justifying the high numbers of CPP's spent. For instance, the Russian player spent 8,22,18, and 20 CPP's respectively for the first 4 scenarios. The German player spent 12, 23, 17, and 12 for the first 4 scenarios respectively. I know that there have been rules changes to Red Barricades since this playtest game took place, but the authors have pointed out where the rules have changes. According to my interpretation of the 2000 Edition of the RB rules, the maximum number of CPP's that could be added to one's total for a scenario is 18. That being the case, there is no way that the German player could have spent 23 CPP's on day 2 even if he rolled for the max CPP's (18) and added it to the 3 CPP's he saved from scenario 1 when he spent only 12 of his 15 OB given CPP's. The Russian player didn't save any of his 8 CPP's from scenario one, and still goes on to spend 22,18,20 in the next three days. I don't see how that is possible. Either I am doing something wrong, or the rules have changed concerning CPP's since this article was written. Any help with this would be appreciated. Al Cann From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sun Aug 20 09:45:46 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:45:46 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading References: <5vffe29ge78t7d3idomlji4b9proj83obv@4ax.com> Message-ID: >a Blaze in 41V8L1 could *also* spread to 41V7L0 -- but not to 41V7L1. If your understanding is right, this makes it very interesting. Blaze in 41V8L1 can spread to 41V7L0 beacuse it is horizontal. OK But if the blaze was in 41V7L0, then it could spread to 41V8L1 since it is horizontal, AND to L0 because that follows the example of the "wooden building" i 2M9. (The must've meant ADJACENT, forcing the fire to follow the ground or other connection, and made special rules and examples for buildings, woods and orchards since they are level 1 or higher.) Janusz From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sun Aug 20 10:27:05 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:27:05 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Red Barricades CG III References: <003c01c6c457$db878b50$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: You got it right. The CPPs are way too high. They must've been changed since playtest. Janusz ________________________________ From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net on behalf of al cann Sent: Sun 2006-08-20 14:55 To: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Red Barricades CG III Guys, I have a question concerning Red Barricades CG III combat purchase points. I've dusted off a copy of the ASL Annual '91 and have been following a playtest series replay for CG III that appeared in that issue. The players have noted the number of CPP's they have spent prior to each scenario and I am having trouble justifying the high numbers of CPP's spent. For instance, the Russian player spent 8,22,18, and 20 CPP's respectively for the first 4 scenarios. The German player spent 12, 23, 17, and 12 for the first 4 scenarios respectively. I know that there have been rules changes to Red Barricades since this playtest game took place, but the authors have pointed out where the rules have changes. According to my interpretation of the 2000 Edition of the RB rules, the maximum number of CPP's that could be added to one's total for a scenario is 18. That being the case, there is no way that the German player could have spent 23 CPP's on day 2 even if he rolled for the max CPP's (18) and added it to the 3 CPP's he saved from scenario 1 when he spent only 12 of his 15 OB given CPP's. The Russian player didn't save any of his 8 CPP's from scenario one, and still goes on to spend 22,18,20 in the next three days. I don't see how that is possible. Either I am doing something wrong, or the rules have changed concerning CPP's since this article was written. Any help with this would be appreciated. Al Cann _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From john at winhaven.net Sun Aug 20 17:17:37 2006 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:17:37 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060814194124.01d58e78@alltel.net> Message-ID: <0deb01c6c4b7$3534a660$6501a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Hi Guys, For some more memories we have the original digests posted here for anyone to read: http://www.winhaven.net/TRAC/Reading/index.html click on the top right link "Digests" Enjoy! John B. -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net] On Behalf Of Bret & Julie Hildebran Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:56 PM To: Paul Ferraro; ASLML Subject: Re: [Aslml] ASL History Question - "The Mailing List" Paul Ferraro wrote: >Genie was probably the first. Later there was a fair bit of activity >on usenet - but its been so long I can't recall the name of the >newsgroup. I >*think* after Genie (or concurrently at some point) the ASLML >discussion list began in Chicago, the original owner's name escapes me. Actually the list began in Columbus, OH. Chris Farrell, who was from Cleveland BTW, was the original creator of the list while he was at "The Ohio State University". The list started as an offshoot of some of the discussions on rec.games.board I believe. Originally there was an "ASL Digest" which kind of evolved into an active list, but the digest itself continued on for awhile as an ASL cyber newsletter. I have a few old copies of "The ASL Digest". Volume 2 #10 was edited by John Foley and published July 3, 1992. Volume 2 #12 has John "retiring" as editor and turning over the publication to Brian Youse on July 31, 1992. There's a note that publication will change to monthly from every 2 weeks. The last one I have is from Brian labelled Volume 3 #5 on January 1, 1993. Unfortunately I don't have the first "ASL Digest" Chris published, so I can't date it precisely but it would have been the 2nd half of '91 to early '92. Volume 2 #10 does have a 16 man PBEM tourney with Round 1 being "Zon with the Wind". Entrants were: Eric Young, Martin Snow, Tim Van Sant, Darin Kent, Bernt Ribom, Chris Farrell, Bret Hildebran, Brian Youse, Carl Fago, Stuart Craig, Werner Staringer, Rich Campbell, Joe Sylvester, Rod Holmes, C(?) Powers & Robert Feinstein. Ah, memories... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 21 00:32:54 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:32:54 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] fire spreading In-Reply-To: References: <5vffe29ge78t7d3idomlji4b9proj83obv@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3lnie2h3mcnscihjjsh7cnrpfopuhngmca@4ax.com> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:45:46 +0200, "Janusz Maxe" wrote: >>a Blaze in 41V8L1 could *also* spread to 41V7L0 -- but not to 41V7L1. > >If your understanding is right, this makes it very interesting. >Blaze in 41V8L1 can spread to 41V7L0 beacuse it is horizontal. OK >But if the blaze was in 41V7L0, then it could spread to 41V8L1 since it is horizontal, AND to L0 because that follows the example of the "wooden building" i 2M9. > >(The must've meant ADJACENT, forcing the fire to follow the ground or other connection, and made special rules and examples for buildings, woods and orchards since they are level 1 or higher.) It's *possible* that ADJACENT, not adjacent, was intended; however, if we were to use that interpretation, then some other oddities would result that would not be addressed by the current rules. E.G., Blazes in upper-level building Locations could not spread to other upper-level building Locations that they were not directly attached to. Also, Blazes in upper-level rowhouse Locations could not spread to the upper-level building Locations that they might be directly connected to (but separated by a black bar) -- which given that B25.62 goes to the trouble of specifically noting that such Locations are considered "directly attached", would be very odd indeed. I think it's more likely that the spreading fire rules have just been written rather vaguely. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From gd891 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 21 06:59:53 2006 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd891) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:59:53 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Stupid LOS questions In-Reply-To: <0deb01c6c4b7$3534a660$6501a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: Setting up for scenario 122 from the latest journal. Can guys on the rooftop in E2 see the open hex, M1? The building H1 is in middle of the LOS, but the SSR defines all stairwell buildings as 2 story houses. I guess I'm wondering what level E2 rooftop is at. Is it 2 1/2? SSR defines E2 as having a stairwell in every hex, and I seem to recall something about that changing how many levels it has. But I can't find any rule based on that so it could be a hallucination. From pnelson1000 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 21 10:54:47 2006 From: pnelson1000 at hotmail.com (Paul Nelson) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:54:47 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays Message-ID: Hello fellow ASLers, I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that they might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Paul D. Nelson Just retired at age 30. From hofors at lysator.liu.se Mon Aug 21 11:13:00 2006 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: 21 Aug 2006 20:13:00 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use unmounted boards and either plexi or real glass and tape them to the table. That's enough for the overlays to stay in place, in my experience. Regards, Mattias "Paul Nelson" writes: > Hello fellow ASLers, > > I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the > boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried > about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that they > might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. > From garciagd at velocity.net Mon Aug 21 10:58:16 2006 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:58:16 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays References: Message-ID: <002501c6c54b$60f3fe60$3903010a@gecac.org> I use Blue Tak (a SMALL amount)..... its for posters, etc. if ya put a little ball of it in a couple of placed you'll be OK. but do not use too much (or leave it on too long) I am certain that others will chime with their recommendations, but that is what I use.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Nelson" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: [Aslml] Overlays > Hello fellow ASLers, > > I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the > boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried > about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that > they > might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. > > Paul D. Nelson > Just retired at age 30. > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 21 12:01:26 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:01:26 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:54:47 -0600, "Paul Nelson" wrote: >I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the >boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried >about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that they >might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. This question is addressed in the ASL FAQ: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ/ I use Blu-Tack, myself (in very small amounts, as Roger says). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk Mon Aug 21 12:35:08 2006 From: chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk (Chris Netherton) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:35:08 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] Do Orchards Cause Shadows? Message-ID: <44EA0AEC.5040708@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Hello! Do Orchards cause shadows from blazes when night is in effect? Orchards are only LOS obstacles to fire from higher elevations, so do they only cause shadows to higher level blazes? Cheers Chris From geb3 at inter.net Mon Aug 21 15:54:21 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:54:21 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you haven't already, I recommennd laminating your overlays to protect them from wear and lessen your adhesive worries. If you have a set of unmounted maps (no longer available), or the new cardstock ones, laminate those as well and your troubles are over. Cheers! George "encased in plastic for your protection" Bates Yokohama, Japan -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:55 AM To: Aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Overlays Hello fellow ASLers, I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that they might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Paul D. Nelson Just retired at age 30. _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From aslbunker at yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 17:17:42 2006 From: aslbunker at yahoo.com (Vic Provost) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] Dispatches from the Bunker August Update Message-ID: <20060822001742.5335.qmail@web32604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings from the Bunker and hello to all at the Mailing List. Here is the latest on our Amateur ASL Newsletter Dispatches from the Bunker. We are hard at work on Issue #23 with the usual late September publishing date for our Bunker Bash on the 23rd. The issue will be a preview of Tom Morin's magnum opus VotG, which is MMPs latest HASL project due out later this year. It will feature 3 scenarios that Tom designed and developed after the module was submitted to MMP a couple years ago, they were ideas that were culled from the last of his mass of research material on the battle, are all tourney sized offerings with unique design qualities, and have been a big hit at the Bunker since in house playtesting commenced, I love the design concepts with Tom trying some new wrinkles for these tournament actions, easily finished in your average playing session of 2 to 4 hours. The testing is finishing up at this point to nice reviews. The scenarios are: Soldiers of the 62nd Army - NKVD troops have been ordered by Chuikov himself to take back the Stalingrad-1 Railway Station. Sturmgeschutz Forward! - A tough Guards defense aided by variable anti-tank assets awaits the onslaught of 3 waves of combined arms by the German attackers. Breakout from Stalingrad-1 - The remnants of the 1st Battalion, 42nd Guards try to breakout of the encirclement at the Railway Station to link up with the Battalion HQ trapped in the Nail Factory. Very promising stuff from Tom, who will also do the analysis for them this issue as well as an article on the whole Valor of the Guards project. Jim Torkelson will also give his take on VotG, Carl Nogueira will continue his 'Making a Mess' Tactical Tips article, and I will look back at this past Nor'Easter and ahead to the Bunker Bash and NY State ASL Championship. Meanwhile, our current Issue, Dispatches from the Bunker #22 has, as usual, 3 new scenarios: Dash for Mt Croce - Joe Gochinski's latest in the 45th Thunderbird Division series is a quick-play tourney style action with a company of 1st line GIs trying to pierce the thin line of elite 6th Paratroop Division Fallschirmjagers and exit half the force off the opposite side of Board 12 in 1943 Italy. Jungle Rats - Another one from our designer extraordinaire Steve Johns, this sees a counterattacking combined arms force from the 1st Burma Division and 2nd RTR (from the Desert Rats 7th Armored Brigade) trying to smash a Japanese blocking force holding up the retreat north in Burma. A company of 4-4-7 2nd liners is supported by Stuart 1s and 80 OBA while the Japanese have 1st line troops aided by a 37L AT Gun and air support in the form of a 42 FB. Nasty PTO fun on board 42. Hamburg on the Lovat - Andy Clarke has come up with another nice Eastern Front scenario with a company of Russian sub-machine gunners assisted by a couple T-34s (one of which is that nasty OT-34) assaulting the cut-off elements of the 83rd Infantry Division at Velikiye Luki. The Russians have numbers on their side whereas the German has the range advantage along with some fortifications to help in the defense on Boards 20 and 23. HIP Tank Hunter teams spice up the action as the Soviets grind forward toward building 20Z4. We also will have another fine analysis from Jim Torkelson, this time Jim writes about those popular Gurkha scenarios from Schwerpunkt. I take a look back at both the 2005 Bunker Bash and the ' 05 NY State ASL Championship and preview Nor'Easter X. As always we have Carl Nogueira's informative Tactical Tips for both Novices and Veterans. For those unfamiliar with Dispatches, it is a 12 page Amateur ASL Newsletter that comes to the greater ASL Community twice a year, sometime in March and September courtesy of the New England ASL Community, including the Bunker Crew and our yasl Brothers in Southern New England. It typically contains 3 New Scenarios, Analysis of each one, a Main Article on any aspect of the game system, Tactical Tips, ASL News and Tournament Updates from our region. You may now view samples of our work at the ASL Webdex at: http://www.aslwebdex.net/ The specific page is at: http://www.aslwebdex.net/aslwebdex/Publishers/Bunker/bunker.html Thanks to Larry Memmott for giving us space there, you can view pdf. files of Issues #01 & #09 there, including the always popular Mighty Maus scenario. (Prices at the Webdex will be updated in the near future, prices listed below are current). IF this sounds like snake eyes from your Flamethrower on your enemies Fire-base, Subscriptions and ALL Back-Issues are still available and here is how to get yours (all prices include S & H and PayPal Fees, after going on 10 years of publishing this humble Newsletter and due to ever increasing expenses on everything from postage to envelopes the following prices are current and in effect immediately. Also Please make all checks/money orders out to Vic Provost, NOT Dispatches from the Bunker): 4 Issue Subscription (Starting with current Issue #22): In the USA: $15.00 (Check/Money Order/Cash or PayPal) Outside the States: $18.00 (International Postal Money Order,USA Currency or PayPal only). Sorry, NO Credit Cards, Personal Checks not drawn on a USA Bank, NO Western Union, this is an Old School Amateur Effort and our Hobby, not a Full Time 'Business' If using PayPal please send your remittance in USA Funds via PayPal to: PinkFloydFan1954 at aol.com If using PayPal please also notify me here at aslbunker at aol.com with your shipping address and just what you are ordering, Thanks. Back-Issues: Issue #01 is our FREE Preview Issue available with any New Subscription or upon request with a #10 SASE. All other Back-Issues (#02 - #21) are $4.00 Each in the USA or $4.50 Each outside the States. All 22 Issues in print (No subscription): $55.00 in the USA, $60.00 outside the states. The Works: All 22 Issues plus a 4 Issue Subscription, starting with current Issue #22 (25 Issues in total) $65.00 in the USA, $70.00 outside the states Make your remittance out to Vic Provost and send to: Vic Provost Dispatches from the Bunker P.O. Box 2024 Hinsdale MA 01235 USA Any other questions just reply to my e-mail at: aslbunker at aol.com and I'll do my best to answer your query. Thanks again to all my Contributors, Playtesters, and Subscribers, without whom the Newsletter would not be possible. Thanks for your time and consideration, your ASL Comrade, Vic Provost. 'SSR: All Occupants of the Bunker Location are considered Fanatic [A10.8]' __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Mon Aug 21 17:52:09 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 00:52:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Do Orchards Cause Shadows? References: <44EA0AEC.5040708@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Message-ID: Chris Netherton writes: > > Hello! > > Do Orchards cause shadows from blazes when night is in effect? > Orchards are only LOS obstacles to fire from higher elevations, so do > they only cause shadows to higher level blazes? > Hi Chris, The orchards do not cause a shadow to same level LOS, but could if the blaze were at a higher level. I think you are understanding the rule correctly. Chuck "The Night Is Your Friend" PS: Randy Rossi made some great T-shirts for the ASLOK night mini last year! Several people have asked what "The Night Is Your Friend" means. See you in the Night mini. From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Mon Aug 21 18:01:33 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Red Barricades Factory Walls Message-ID: Hi, From O5.331 it looks like only up to 5 US# can cross through a factory wall breach in a MPh or AdvPh. Is there a similar limitation on crossing through a breach of a regular fortified building hex or breached rowhouse hexside? Do units have to claim wall advantage on a factory wall breach to shoot past the adjacent location and to get the wall TEM? When a DC is placed to breach a factory wall and the other side of the wall is both fortified and has debris, what is the TEM used on the breach DR? +3 for stone? +4 for stone and fort? +5 for stone, fort. and debris? Chuck From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 21 22:27:09 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:27:09 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Do Orchards Cause Shadows? In-Reply-To: <44EA0AEC.5040708@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> References: <44EA0AEC.5040708@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Message-ID: <265le2pufdervjhsdqql2di9ed2m3mq561@4ax.com> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:35:08 +0100, Chris Netherton wrote: >Do Orchards cause shadows from blazes when night is in effect? >Orchards are only LOS obstacles to fire from higher elevations, so do >they only cause shadows to higher level blazes? That would be my interpretation. Orchards are not LOS obstacles to same-level LOS, therefore will not create shadows to a same-level LOS -- i.e., an Orchard hex will not create a shadow in a Blaze's Illuminated Zone if the Orchard hex and the Blaze are at the same elevation. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 21 23:00:46 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:00:46 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Red Barricades Factory Walls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:01:33 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Payne wrote: > From O5.331 it looks like only up to 5 US# can cross through a factory >wall breach in a MPh or AdvPh. Is there a similar limitation on crossing >through a breach of a regular fortified building hex or breached rowhouse >hexside? Of course not. Breaches in Rowhouse black bars are covered in B23.711, and Breaches in Fortified Building Locations are covered in B23.9221. Neither of those rules mention anything similar to the O5.331 limitation, which is a rule applicable to the Factory Interior Walls of RB Factories only. > Do units have to claim wall advantage on a factory wall breach to shoot >past the adjacent location and to get the wall TEM? LOS is drawn as if it were a wall, so yes, WA would be required, as normal. There is no "Wall TEM" however; O5.331 says *nothing* about TEM. > When a DC is placed to breach a factory wall and the other side of the >wall is both fortified and has debris, what is the TEM used on the breach DR? >+3 for stone? +4 for stone and fort? +5 for stone, fort. and debris? Breaches do not negate or otherwise modify any existing TEM, they merely create LOS (and movement) opportunities that did not exist prior to the creation of the Breach. Furthermore, B23.711 specifies that "full TEM" is applicable if the DC successfully detonates. However, you are attacking an Interior Factory Location from within the same Factory, thus the full TEM is +3: +1 for Factory, +1 for Debris, +1 for Fortified Location. [EXC: the J13/K13 hexside is not completely blocked by the Factory Interior Wall, and LOS from J13 to K13 is not obstructed by it, and also leaves the Factory depiction, so fire from one to the other would be eligible for full TEM. A Breach in that hexside is only necessary if you want to move *within* the Factory, rather than bypass the Wall via the Open Ground portion of the hex.] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From cduke at intelnett.com Tue Aug 22 13:38:34 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:38:34 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Street fighting Message-ID: <000501c6c62a$f001be50$641ea8c0@Duke> If a squad is in a building adjacent to another building, the common hexside is non-road OG, an enemy AFV bypasses through that hexside but stating that he is bypassing the OTHER hex, can the squad claim street fighting? Charles ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are not defeated until you admit it. Hence, don't. Gen. George S. Patton From aslbrad at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 14:55:31 2006 From: aslbrad at hotmail.com (Brad K.) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:55:31 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] G1 Message-ID: My copy of scenario G1 got wrecked. Does anybody have a scan? Bradley Knoll From aslbrad at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 14:56:00 2006 From: aslbrad at hotmail.com (Brad K.) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:56:00 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Brit Ch H Message-ID: Hey All, Does anybody need a FKaC Brit CH H? I ended up with two copies. Bradley Knoll From aslbrad at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 14:57:20 2006 From: aslbrad at hotmail.com (Brad K.) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:57:20 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Fallcon Calgary Message-ID: Hey, I sthere an ASL thing going on at the Calgary Fallcon this year? Brad From aslbrad at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 15:07:01 2006 From: aslbrad at hotmail.com (Brad K.) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:07:01 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Tac Opp Message-ID: Hey, Looking for an VASL PBeM(maybe some live) Opponent for Tactiques 16 'Summer Cleaning' IIFT sides determined by 'dr', straight up, no balance. Brad From damavs at alltel.net Tue Aug 22 15:32:58 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:32:58 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Street fighting In-Reply-To: <000501c6c62a$f001be50$641ea8c0@Duke> References: <000501c6c62a$f001be50$641ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060822183004.01b734c0@alltel.net> Charles Duke wrote: >If a squad is in a building adjacent to another building, the common hexside >is non-road OG, an enemy AFV bypasses through that hexside but stating that >he is bypassing the OTHER hex, can the squad claim street fighting? No, not as reaction fire. For CC reaction fire the AFV would have to be in the squad's hex or in the road between 2 buildings. Of course the squad can try to advance into CC vs. the AFV & qualify for the street fighting modifier... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From scott.holst at us.army.mil Tue Aug 22 17:51:54 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:51:54 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given a Chance? Message-ID: Hi- The Subject says it all, Does the current counter-mix meet your standards or do you feel that the SS counter-mix should be revised to something else? Scott From s.deller at charter.net Tue Aug 22 18:09:37 2006 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:09:37 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS Message-ID: <002a01c6c650$ce749cf0$2f83b018@ht8s631> Gentlemen, Do olive groves block LOS between a firer and a target at different levels (like an in-season orchard)? Chapter F implies so, but the Chapter B Terrain Chart says "no". What do you say? Cheers, Sean From damavs at alltel.net Tue Aug 22 18:38:04 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:38:04 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <002a01c6c650$ce749cf0$2f83b018@ht8s631> References: <002a01c6c650$ce749cf0$2f83b018@ht8s631> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060822213049.01bc8d50@alltel.net> Sean Deller wrote: >Do olive groves block LOS between a firer and a target at different levels >(like an in-season orchard)? Chapter F implies so, but the Chapter B >Terrain Chart says "no". What do you say? F13.5 is very explicit that Olive Groves are always in season orchards which means it blocks LOS between different level firers. The terrain chart does note "Always in Season" in the Notes section. Why the LOS Obstacle/Hindrance just says "Hindrance" instead of Orchard's "Level-One* or Hindrance**" is anyone's guess. But the terrain charts don't override the rules in any manner - it's only a handy reference beyond B.4 and MP costs, nothing more. F13.5 says it as does B14.8. To think the terrain chart would override explicit rules sections would be the height of folly... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From bakken_80 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 18:52:55 2006 From: bakken_80 at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:52:55 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060822213049.01bc8d50@alltel.net> Message-ID: >But the terrain charts don't override the rules in any manner > If that were really true, we wouldn't have the current brou-ha-ha over the 'new' -1 Bridge TEM. Evidently *somebody* thinks the Terrain Chart overrides the rules text. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG From s.deller at charter.net Tue Aug 22 19:06:54 2006 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:06:54 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS References: <002a01c6c650$ce749cf0$2f83b018@ht8s631> <7.0.0.16.0.20060822213049.01bc8d50@alltel.net> Message-ID: <003a01c6c658$ced560f0$2f83b018@ht8s631> Bret, That's my take as well. Thanks for the confirmation. Oddly, some of the strategy comments in the DASL A11 series replay seemingly do not take this into account. The article says hA4 is a good position from which to fire on eM4, but the olive grove in hB4 should block that LOS. It also identifies the NW hill as a good position from which to fire on Hill 108 but doesn't mention how the olive grove in eK3 would block some of those LOS. Strange. Cheers, Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bret & Julie Hildebran" To: "Sean Deller" ; "ASLML" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] olive grove LOS > Sean Deller wrote: >>Do olive groves block LOS between a firer and a target at different levels >>(like an in-season orchard)? Chapter F implies so, but the Chapter B >>Terrain Chart says "no". What do you say? > > F13.5 is very explicit that Olive Groves are always in season orchards > which means it blocks LOS between different level firers. The terrain > chart does note "Always in Season" in the Notes section. Why the LOS > Obstacle/Hindrance just says "Hindrance" instead of Orchard's "Level-One* > or Hindrance**" is anyone's guess. But the terrain charts don't override > the rules in any manner - it's only a handy reference beyond B.4 and MP > costs, nothing more. > > F13.5 says it as does B14.8. To think the terrain chart would override > explicit rules sections would be the height of folly... > > Bret Hildebran > damavs at alltel.net > www.aslok.org > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/2006 > > From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 19:16:50 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:16:50 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2b8228f00608221916h3b82a820g8ed5eb6234a2ebcb@mail.gmail.com> 3M makes a transparent tape whose adhesive is the same glue as post-it notes. I find this works fine without any damage to overlays or maps so far. You also wrote: > Just retired at age 30. > Color me green with envy if that's true. On 8/21/06, Paul Nelson wrote: > Hello fellow ASLers, > > I was just wondering how do you guys keep the overlays from moving on the > boards. All I have is a piece of plexiglass over the top and I am worried > about using anything to actually stick them to my boards for fear that they > might get ruined. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. > > Paul D. Nelson > Just retired at age 30. > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From kevinkenneally at isot.com Tue Aug 22 18:57:23 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:57:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given a Chance? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> Suits me fine. Gives me the ability to change to the DYO abilities of early war and late war squads. Kevin > Hi- > > The Subject says it all, Does the current counter-mix meet your standards > or do you feel that the SS counter-mix should be revised to something > else? > > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From tom_jaz at yahoo.com Tue Aug 22 19:59:14 2006 From: tom_jaz at yahoo.com (Jazz) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given a Chance? In-Reply-To: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> Message-ID: <20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Agreed. The SS counter mix with SS 447, 468, 548, 658, and 838 counters works just fine. Black or blue don't make much difference to me. Is there a consript squad type in there also? Do you need to get ABTF for that mix? Can't recall..... --- kevinkenneally at isot.com wrote: > Suits me fine. > > Gives me the ability to change to the DYO abilities of early war and late > war squads. > > Kevin > > Hi- > > > > The Subject says it all, Does the current counter-mix meet your standards > > or do you feel that the SS counter-mix should be revised to something > > else? > > > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > > > ************************************** > Computer problems? ................... > ..............http://www.multibyte.net > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 22 22:44:35 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:44:35 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given a Chance? In-Reply-To: <20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> <20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:59:14 -0700 (PDT), Jazz wrote: >Agreed. The SS counter mix with SS 447, 468, 548, 658, and 838 counters works just fine. Black >or blue don't make much difference to me. Is there a consript squad type in there also? > >Do you need to get ABTF for that mix? Can't recall..... Yes. The standard SS squad types as described in A25.11-.12 are 4-6-8 (early war) (counters in DB); 6-5-8 (mid-late war) (counters in BV) and 8-3-8 (assault engineers) (counters in KGPII, reprinted in DB). The 4-4-7 and 5-4-8 were provided in ABTF, and officially are only intended for that module (R6.2). Unofficially they see occasional use elsewhere. Conscripts are poorly-trained and poorly-disciplined. It's hard to imagine why anyone would think that poorly-trained SS would be better than poorly-trained regulars, but HOB apparently thought so when they offered SS conscripts in their 3rd-party black countermix from way-back-when. Hopefully that silliness is well behind them (and us). With any proposal for a "new" squad type, the first question should always be: is this not something that would be better and more neatly done with an SSR? The answer, IMO, is almost always "yes". Bottom line: no, we don't need more types of SS squad. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Wed Aug 23 01:20:59 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:20:59 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? References: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com><20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Extenisve research has proved the need for a SS 5-6-7 squad with 9 as broken morale, since the 2nd company, 3 battalion of SS regiment Nordland obviously showed an extensive defiatism but also a tendency to regroup during the morning of 16 april 1945 during their defensive stand outside of Bellingsberg, Germany. Since the ammunition for their sturmgewehr was running out fast, they started handing out captured Soviet sniper rifles to their best marksmen, thus the need for the extended range of the squad. On another note, I'm leading a design group working on the pivotal battle at Kirundawa Atoll, Pacific Ocean, 3 may, 1944. The Marines assaulting this "hell on earth" cannot be properly represented with the current countermix. Most probably, we need at least three new squad types, among them a "handpicked volunteer marksmen asasult pioneers", that I can assure you will be the coolest unit you've ever seen when MMP releases this HASL early next year. true Janusz ________________________________ Fr?n: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net genom Bruce Probst Skickat: on 2006-08-23 07:44 Till: Jazz Kopia: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net ?mne: Re: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:59:14 -0700 (PDT), Jazz wrote: >Agreed. The SS counter mix with SS 447, 468, 548, 658, and 838 counters works just fine. Black >or blue don't make much difference to me. Is there a consript squad type in there also? > >Do you need to get ABTF for that mix? Can't recall..... Yes. The standard SS squad types as described in A25.11-.12 are 4-6-8 (early war) (counters in DB); 6-5-8 (mid-late war) (counters in BV) and 8-3-8 (assault engineers) (counters in KGPII, reprinted in DB). The 4-4-7 and 5-4-8 were provided in ABTF, and officially are only intended for that module (R6.2). Unofficially they see occasional use elsewhere. Conscripts are poorly-trained and poorly-disciplined. It's hard to imagine why anyone would think that poorly-trained SS would be better than poorly-trained regulars, but HOB apparently thought so when they offered SS conscripts in their 3rd-party black countermix from way-back-when. Hopefully that silliness is well behind them (and us). With any proposal for a "new" squad type, the first question should always be: is this not something that would be better and more neatly done with an SSR? The answer, IMO, is almost always "yes". Bottom line: no, we don't need more types of SS squad. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From play_asl_838 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 05:37:57 2006 From: play_asl_838 at yahoo.com (kevin meyer) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 05:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given a Chance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060823123757.96085.qmail@web60920.mail.yahoo.com> The only change I would make is to use pansy pink and purty purple as the color combination. Kevin I retired at the age of 21 to be a professional ASL player, unfortunately work and lousy die rolls ruined my plans. --- scott.holst at us.army.mil wrote: > Hi- > > The Subject says it all, Does the current > counter-mix meet your standards or do you feel that > the SS counter-mix should be revised to something > else? > > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From asl at howardhowardfine.com Wed Aug 23 06:29:40 2006 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:29:40 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? In-Reply-To: References: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> <20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060823082746.0378c1a0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> A whole new squad type to represent one unit on one day? What's next? An individual counter for every soldier that served in WWII? I'll go with Bruce and say that SSR, not SS counter, is the way to go. c At 03:20 AM 23/08/2006, Janusz Maxe wrote: >Extenisve research has proved the need for a SS 5-6-7 squad with 9 as >broken morale, since the 2nd company, 3 battalion of SS regiment Nordland >obviously showed an extensive defiatism but also a tendency to regroup >during the morning of 16 april 1945 during their defensive stand outside >of Bellingsberg, Germany. Since the ammunition >for their sturmgewehr was running out fast, they started handing out >captured Soviet sniper rifles to their best marksmen, thus the need for >the extended range of the squad. > >On another note, I'm leading a design group working on the pivotal battle >at Kirundawa Atoll, Pacific Ocean, 3 may, 1944. The Marines assaulting >this "hell on earth" cannot be properly represented with the >current countermix. Most probably, we need at least three new squad >types, among them a "handpicked volunteer marksmen asasult pioneers", that >I can assure you will be the coolest unit you've ever seen when MMP >releases this HASL early next year. > >true >Janusz > >________________________________ > >Fr?n: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net genom Bruce Probst >Skickat: on 2006-08-23 07:44 >Till: Jazz >Kopia: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net >?mne: Re: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? > > > >On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:59:14 -0700 (PDT), Jazz wrote: > > >Agreed. The SS counter mix with SS 447, 468, 548, 658, and 838 counters > works just fine. Black > >or blue don't make much difference to me. Is there a consript squad > type in there also? > > > >Do you need to get ABTF for that mix? Can't recall..... > >Yes. The standard SS squad types as described in A25.11-.12 are 4-6-8 (early >war) (counters in DB); 6-5-8 (mid-late war) (counters in BV) and 8-3-8 >(assault engineers) (counters in KGPII, reprinted in DB). > >The 4-4-7 and 5-4-8 were provided in ABTF, and officially are only intended >for that module (R6.2). Unofficially they see occasional use elsewhere. > >Conscripts are poorly-trained and poorly-disciplined. It's hard to imagine >why anyone would think that poorly-trained SS would be better than >poorly-trained regulars, but HOB apparently thought so when they offered SS >conscripts in their 3rd-party black countermix from way-back-when. Hopefully >that silliness is well behind them (and us). > >With any proposal for a "new" squad type, the first question should always be: >is this not something that would be better and more neatly done with an SSR? >The answer, IMO, is almost always "yes". > >Bottom line: no, we don't need more types of SS squad. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au >Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 >"Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." >ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net craig http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html From cduke at intelnett.com Wed Aug 23 06:40:38 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:40:38 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] CC reaction fire Message-ID: <002101c6c6b9$b8254ee0$641ea8c0@Duke> An AFV begins in the same hex as an enemy squad, holding it in melee. The AFV starts, then moves out of the hex. Can the squad DFF with CC reaction fire? If yes, at what point can it be declared (after the start MP, as it leaves the hex, etc.)? If yes to any of the above, would it be vs. a motion AFV? Charles From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 23 06:41:42 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 9:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? Message-ID: <20060823134142.KMON28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> ASL writes: > A whole new squad type to represent one unit on one day? What's next? An > individual counter for every soldier that served in WWII? I think you missed out on some subtle Swedish sarcasm there from Janusz. Neither historical location he mentions is real (or at least Google hasn't heard of 'em) & 3 new Marine types? Come on now. Plus a HASL you never heard of coming out next year? From MMP? Like that's gonna' happen. FWIW I found it to be brilliant satire on Janusz's part though. I just feel sorry for him when a year goes by and folks are clamoring for his announced HASL & wondering why it's schedule has slipped so... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 23 06:47:11 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 9:47:11 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] CC reaction fire Message-ID: <20060823134711.ECNA3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Charles Duke writes: > An AFV begins in the same hex as an enemy squad, holding it in melee. The > AFV starts, then moves out of the hex. Can the squad DFF with CC reaction > fire? Yes. > If yes, at what point can it be declared (after the start MP, as it > leaves the hex, etc.)? Anytime after the start MP while the vehicle is still in the hex or in some cases after leaving the hex if street fighting would be allowed in that new hex. Basically as soon as the tank starts, the enemy unit is no longer held in melee because non-stopped vehicles don't hold units in melee. Once out of melee the infantry is free to DFire under the normal rules. > If yes to any of the above, would it be vs. a motion > AFV? Yes, any reaction fire would incur the +2 for non-stopped. That penalty is not dependent on entering a new hex like the TH penalties are. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 23 06:55:07 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 9:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS Message-ID: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> "Bruce Bakken" writes: > >But the terrain charts don't override the rules in any manner > > If that were really true, we wouldn't have the current brou-ha-ha over the > 'new' -1 Bridge TEM. Evidently *somebody* thinks the Terrain Chart > overrides the rules text. Well then we obviously need errata to say that. Currently the rules themselves do not support that position at all beyond B.4's very limited claims on MP for the terrain chart. Perhaps the next errata will alter B.4 to make the terrain chart all powerful. Until then, and barring errata saying otherwise regarding Olive Groves (or whatever), like we received w/bridges, you have to take the rules over the terrain chart with the sole exception of B.4 and MPs. Them's the rules... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 23 07:03:03 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:03:03 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS Message-ID: <20060823140303.ZGWE4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> "Sean Deller" writes: > Oddly, some of the strategy comments in the DASL A11 series replay seemingly > do not take this into account. The article says hA4 is a good position from > which to fire on eM4, but the olive grove in hB4 should block that LOS. Scenario replays are great for what they are, but don't take them as a treatise on the rules. Think of how many times you've ever played a flawless game of ASL rules wise. Even when you were trying really hard to be perfect. Now just because 2 players write all there moves down, doesn't magically make that scenario perfect. Actually it usually just records all their mistakes for posterity. While I've never done a scenario replay, I've done a few "Games with a View" in the old PBEM days & it could be quite embarrassing all the rules mistakes one can make. Now the couple I recall doing were a beach landing & a night desert scenario so there was some esoteric stuff going on there, but it's easy to make rules oversights in ASL. I'd presume the above scenario replay is no different in this case & it just happened that no one actually caught the Olive Groves are always in season snafu... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From scottielu at hotmail.com Wed Aug 23 07:13:58 2006 From: scottielu at hotmail.com (scott lucas) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:13:58 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if GivenaChance? In-Reply-To: <20060823134142.KMON28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: What are you talking about Bret? I've already cleared space on my shelf, bought another Plano case for the counters, started labeling my binders, posted my thoughts on SZO, and asked my wife for permission to pre-order another MMP product! -Scott ______________________________________________________________ From: Bret & Julie Hildebran Reply-To: damavs at alltel.net To: ASL ,"Janusz Maxe" , Subject: Re: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if GivenaChance? Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 9:41:42 -0400 >ASL writes: > > A whole new squad type to represent one unit on one day? What's next? An > > individual counter for every soldier that served in WWII? > >I think you missed out on some subtle Swedish sarcasm >there from Janusz. Neither historical location he mentions >is real (or at least Google hasn't heard of 'em) & 3 new >Marine types? Come on now. Plus a HASL you never heard >of coming out next year? From MMP? Like that's gonna' >happen. > >FWIW I found it to be brilliant satire on Janusz's part >though. I just feel sorry for him when a year goes by and >folks are clamoring for his announced HASL & wondering why >it's schedule has slipped so... > >Bret Hildebran >damavs at alltel.net >www.aslok.org > > >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From scott.holst at us.army.mil Wed Aug 23 11:29:59 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:29:59 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if GivenaChance? In-Reply-To: References: <20060823134142.KMON28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: Hi- I just figured I'd start a thread with some ASL content, I guess it's better then say Gleeenbo vs Psycho, Tweezers and ASL, your favorite tourny(now thats a serious trolling), What ever happened to Curt Shcilling and so on. ASL content, One thing I did think about was using the Hungarian Axis minor squads as hastily assembled combat units with poor equipment and less then enthusiatic motivation. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: scott lucas Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:13 am Subject: Re: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if GivenaChance? > > What are you talking about Bret? I've already cleared space on my > shelf, bought another Plano case for the counters, started > labeling my > binders, posted my thoughts on SZO, and asked my wife for > permission to pre-order another MMP product! > -Scott > ______________________________________________________________ > > From: Bret & Julie Hildebran > Reply-To: damavs at alltel.net > To: ASL ,"Janusz Maxe" > , > Subject: Re: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS > countermix if > GivenaChance? > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 9:41:42 -0400 > >ASL writes: > > > A whole new squad type to represent one unit on one day? > What's next? An > > > individual counter for every soldier that served in WWII? > > > >I think you missed out on some subtle Swedish sarcasm > >there from Janusz. Neither historical location he mentions > >is real (or at least Google hasn't heard of 'em) & 3 new > >Marine types? Come on now. Plus a HASL you never heard > >of coming out next year? From MMP? Like that's gonna' > >happen. > > > >FWIW I found it to be brilliant satire on Janusz's part > >though. I just feel sorry for him when a year goes by and > >folks are clamoring for his announced HASL & wondering why > >it's schedule has slipped so... > > > >Bret Hildebran > >damavs at alltel.net > >www.aslok.org > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >aslml mailing list > >aslml at lists.aslml.net > >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From pnelson1000 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 23 12:02:02 2006 From: pnelson1000 at hotmail.com (Paul Nelson) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:02:02 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Overlays Message-ID: Fellow players, Thanks for all of your suggestions. I was able to get all 52 boards mounted years ago and because I was working so much the past 10 years I was not able to play very much or hardly at all and I didn't want to get them damaged before they are not broken. To those who replied about my retirement, I worked for 10 years working 60+ hours a week to put my wife thorough collage. She just graduated with an Architect degree. When she got her job, I was able to quit mine. Now I have time to do the things that I always wanted to do like play ASL, read history books, and possibly design some of my own scenarios. Take care and have a good day, Paul From rjmosher at hughes.net Wed Aug 23 13:19:20 2006 From: rjmosher at hughes.net (ron mosher) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:19:20 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060822213049.01bc8d50@alltel.net> References: <002a01c6c650$ce749cf0$2f83b018@ht8s631> <7.0.0.16.0.20060822213049.01bc8d50@alltel.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060823151843.0209e730@hughes.net> At 08:38 PM 8/22/2006, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >To think the terrain chart would >override explicit rules sections would be the height of folly... The EVILL that is Bret...... :) For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From rjmosher at hughes.net Wed Aug 23 13:22:01 2006 From: rjmosher at hughes.net (ron mosher) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:22:01 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] How would you Represent the SS countermix if Given aChance? In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060823082746.0378c1a0@mail.howardhowardfine.c om> References: <3487.4.253.44.236.1156298243.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> <20060823025914.15874.qmail@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060823082746.0378c1a0@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060823152120.0209e5c8@hughes.net> At 08:29 AM 8/23/2006, ASL wrote: >A whole new squad type to represent one unit on one day? bit o trouble seeing Janusz tongue firmly in cheek, old boy? For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Aug 23 13:52:31 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:52:31 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: Hi,Bret Hildebran wrote: > Perhaps the next errata will alter B.4 to make the > terrain chart all powerful. Until then, and barring errata > saying otherwise regarding Olive Groves (or whatever), > like we received w/bridges, you have to take the rules > over the terrain chart with the sole exception of B.4 and > MPs. Them's the rules... > I don't know why you think you can generally take the rules over the terrain chart (or any other chart). Some rules explicitely tells us that certain tables take precedence over the rule text. In most cases, such clear priority is missing, and in those cases we have two sources (rule text and charts) or even three (rule text, examples and charts) that are all part of the non-optional ASL system, and neither take special precedence over the other. My general point of view is that the most detailed one takes precedence over the less detailed one (as the more detailed A10.533 examples took precedence of the rule text, and the more detailed part about bridge TEM in the terrain chart took precedence over the rule text). In the specific case of Olive Groves, it looks like the chapter B chart is missing some information though. From damavs at alltel.net Wed Aug 23 22:00:58 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:00:58 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Ole Boe wrote: >I don't know why you think you can generally take the rules over the terrain >chart (or any other chart). Some rules explicitely tells us that certain >tables take precedence over the rule text. In most cases, such clear >priority is missing, and in those cases we have two sources (rule text and >charts) or even three (rule text, examples and charts) that are all part of >the non-optional ASL system, and neither take special precedence over the >other. IMO there are specific rules which say the chart takes precedence (B.3, ASOP, concealment are examples), but lacking that where is there a rule saying the chart is equivalent to the rules? I can't find one. Where's the rule saying the charts are equal? Why do you assume that? >My general point of view is that the most detailed one takes precedence over >the less detailed one (as the more detailed A10.533 examples took precedence >of the rule text, and the more detailed part about bridge TEM in the terrain >chart took precedence over the rule text). Hmmmm...A) Where in the rules does it say anything like that is appropriate? B) How is "LOS: -1*/+1" and "If LOS is through road depiction; otherwise +1; TEM +1" more detailed than the entire paragraph of B6.3: "Direct Fire (and Direct Fire Interdiction) against a target on a bridge which is traced only through the road depiction of that bridge hex (or against any pontoon bridge, regardless of LOF) is considered to take place in Open Ground (1.15). Of course, fire traced through a Hindrance hex elsewhere along the LOS still negates any FFMO or Interdiction claims in the bridge hex. See 9.33 for Elevation Effects." And then we get 6.31: "Direct Fire against targets on a non-pontoon bridge (not against the bridge itself) which enters the bridge other than across the road depiction (or road hexside of a bridge counter's hex; 6.2) has a TEM of +1 regardless of construction type." And then there's 6.32 on Indirect Fire and 6.33 on HE destroying and what TEM applies to that. So how is the 13 word explanation on the chart, which is far from clear in it's intent IMO (witness the former Q&A from V1 of the rules) "more detailed" than those 4 paragraphs talking about bridge TEM? Frankly it's not. Hopefully you can point me to someplace in the tome which says the Charts are considered equals to the rule, but there's no way you can argue with a straight face that the terrain chart had more detail on bridge TEM than the body of the rules. It had something "different" in the odd -1 notation, but it's certainly not more detailed. >In the specific case of Olive Groves, it looks like the chapter B chart is >missing some information though. So since it's considered the equivalent to the rules from your point of view, can I just choose the one I like best? IMO that's why the rules take precedence barring a rule to the contrary, you've got to have some way to determine which is the correct interpretation and an "equal unless more detailed" just doesn't work IMO. Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. My apologies if the above sounds overly harsh - It's pushing 1AM here & after 6+ hours defending Budapest from the Russian Hordes I wanted to respond before calling it a night (which may be a mistake, but if I don't respond now, I may never & I'm curious). Mainly I'm interested if there is a rule I've missed saying charts have some kind of rules equivalent. Barring that, I think the chart's only take on the "weight" of the rules when a rule specifically grants them precedence (ASOP etc.) - although perhaps I missed something... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Aug 23 22:55:06 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:55:06 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:00:58 -0400, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >Mainly I'm >interested if there is a rule I've missed saying charts have some >kind of rules equivalent. Only the rule of common sense: Pretend that the Chapter B divider doesn't exist and has never existed. Now, tell me how many MP a truck expends to enter an Open Ground hex. Some charts merely summarise the rules, other charts are an integral part of the rules. You normally don't need a rule to tell you which is which; each individual chart makes it obvious through its own form. The bottom line is that the Chapter B divider and rule B6.3 didn't match. *Something* needed errata of *some* sort. You may disagree over where the errata was best placed; that's your right. It's not a right/wrong question, though; it's merely Column A or Column B. MMP chose a different Column than you would have if it had been your choice to make (which it wasn't). Once you accept the above point, however, what exactly does the argument become *about*? * "The errata changes the way we play!" Well, obviously. That is one of the purposes of errata. * "The errata contradicts previous advice about the rule from 1st edition!" Yes it does. It's not the first errata to do so, and probably won't be the last. * "It will change the balance of some scenarios!" Quite possibly (although I strongly doubt that any such change will be terribly significant), but "changing the balance" is of course not the same as "making the balance worse". * "Bridge crossing has become harder!" Yes indeed; now you might expect to be taking a 2MC instead of a 1MC in a "typical" situation. You should certainly take this into account when devising your tactics. A bigger storm in a smaller teacup is pretty hard to imagine. I'll ask again: what are all the complaints *about*? -- because it beats the heck out of me. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Thu Aug 24 00:54:10 2006 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:54:10 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB Message-ID: The Russians are attacking in RBIII, 29 october, and about 150 squads are using the night as cover. Question: How did you handle the huge amount of cloak, HIP, dummies, starshells and so on? How long did it take to play such a CG-scen? We have about 250 units onboard, plus dummies. Was it fun, or merely frustrating? Janusz From jan.spoor at wybesse.net Thu Aug 24 05:31:20 2006 From: jan.spoor at wybesse.net (Jan Spoor) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:31:20 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: <44ED9C18.70609@wybesse.net> Bruce Probst wrote: > The bottom line is that the Chapter B divider and rule B6.3 didn't match. > *Something* needed errata of *some* sort. You may disagree over where the > errata was best placed; that's your right. It's not a right/wrong question, > though; it's merely Column A or Column B. MMP chose a different Column than > you would have if it had been your choice to make (which it wasn't). > > Once you accept the above point, however, what exactly does the argument > become *about*? Well, actually, I think the argument in original post in this thread had nothing to do with B6.3. It had to do (as per the subject line) with olive groves, and the fact that there is a seeming conflict between the rule text on olive groves and the summary of the rule on the Chapter B divider. Which of those takes precedence is an important issue. I had always understood, as someone else suggested, that the rules text took precedence over the charts if there were a conflict, but I will readily acknowledge I can find nothing in the rules that justifies that impression. From s.deller at charter.net Thu Aug 24 06:01:56 2006 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:01:56 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: <000b01c6c77d$7b760790$6eae7744@ht8s631> Bret guides me: >>Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. Good catch. I should have looked there. Late night weariness for me as well. >>...after 6+ hours defending Budapest from the Russian Hordes... Tell me about it. My recent 12-hour night defense of Festung Budapest from Bill's marauding Russians felt like I had dropped a bar of soap in a prison shower. Cheers, Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bret & Julie Hildebran" To: "Ole Boe" ; Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] olive grove LOS > Ole Boe wrote: >>I don't know why you think you can generally take the rules over the >>terrain >>chart (or any other chart). Some rules explicitely tells us that certain >>tables take precedence over the rule text. In most cases, such clear >>priority is missing, and in those cases we have two sources (rule text and >>charts) or even three (rule text, examples and charts) that are all part >>of >>the non-optional ASL system, and neither take special precedence over the >>other. > > IMO there are specific rules which say the chart takes precedence > (B.3, ASOP, concealment are examples), but lacking that where is > there a rule saying the chart is equivalent to the rules? I can't > find one. Where's the rule saying the charts are equal? Why do you > assume that? > >>My general point of view is that the most detailed one takes precedence >>over >>the less detailed one (as the more detailed A10.533 examples took >>precedence >>of the rule text, and the more detailed part about bridge TEM in the >>terrain >>chart took precedence over the rule text). > > Hmmmm...A) Where in the rules does it say anything like that is > appropriate? B) How is "LOS: -1*/+1" and "If LOS is through road > depiction; otherwise +1; TEM +1" more detailed than the entire > paragraph of B6.3: "Direct Fire (and Direct Fire Interdiction) > against a target on a bridge which is traced only through the road > depiction of that bridge hex (or against any pontoon bridge, > regardless of LOF) is considered to take place in Open Ground > (1.15). Of course, fire traced through a Hindrance hex elsewhere > along the LOS still negates any FFMO or Interdiction claims in the > bridge hex. See 9.33 for Elevation Effects." > > And then we get 6.31: "Direct Fire against targets on a non-pontoon > bridge (not against the bridge itself) which enters the bridge other > than across the road depiction (or road hexside of a bridge counter's > hex; 6.2) has a TEM of +1 regardless of construction type." > > And then there's 6.32 on Indirect Fire and 6.33 on HE destroying and > what TEM applies to that. > > So how is the 13 word explanation on the chart, which is far from > clear in it's intent IMO (witness the former Q&A from V1 of the > rules) "more detailed" than those 4 paragraphs talking about bridge > TEM? Frankly it's not. Hopefully you can point me to someplace in > the tome which says the Charts are considered equals to the rule, but > there's no way you can argue with a straight face that the terrain > chart had more detail on bridge TEM than the body of the rules. It > had something "different" in the odd -1 notation, but it's certainly > not more detailed. > >>In the specific case of Olive Groves, it looks like the chapter B chart is >>missing some information though. > > So since it's considered the equivalent to the rules from your point > of view, can I just choose the one I like best? IMO that's why the > rules take precedence barring a rule to the contrary, you've got to > have some way to determine which is the correct interpretation and an > "equal unless more detailed" just doesn't work IMO. > > Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive > Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. > > My apologies if the above sounds overly harsh - It's pushing 1AM here > & after 6+ hours defending Budapest from the Russian Hordes I wanted > to respond before calling it a night (which may be a mistake, but if > I don't respond now, I may never & I'm curious). Mainly I'm > interested if there is a rule I've missed saying charts have some > kind of rules equivalent. Barring that, I think the chart's only > take on the "weight" of the rules when a rule specifically grants > them precedence (ASOP etc.) - although perhaps I missed something... > > Bret Hildebran > damavs at alltel.net > www.aslok.org > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006 > From rjmosher at hughes.net Thu Aug 24 07:00:24 2006 From: rjmosher at hughes.net (ron mosher) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:00:24 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060824085845.020a44a0@hughes.net> At 12:00 AM 8/24/2006, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >Hopefully you can point me to someplace in >the tome which says the Charts are considered equals to the rule, but >there's no way you can argue with a straight face that the terrain >chart had more detail on bridge TEM than the body of the rules. Chuckle..ya'll just confused Ole..... :) Been there, done that, got the T-shirt... :) For the nonce, ron acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL From damavs at alltel.net Thu Aug 24 07:02:38 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:02:38 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS Message-ID: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Bruce Probst writes: > Only the rule of common sense: > > Pretend that the Chapter B divider doesn't exist and has never existed. > > Now, tell me how many MP a truck expends to enter an Open Ground hex. Actually B.3 tells me to look at the terrain chart in this case. That the Ch. B divider takes precedence regarding MPs is in the rules. Beyond MPs though, there is no rules section saying what takes precedence for LOS blockage or TEM etc. So would the "common sense rule" tell me that Olive Groves block LOS between different level firers or not? > Some charts merely summarise the rules, other charts are an integral part of > the rules. You normally don't need a rule to tell you which is which; each > individual chart makes it obvious through its own form. When there's a conflict though, it becomes critical to know which takes precedence to determine which is in error. And given the rules do call out explicit times where the charts rule, it would seem that barring such a rule, the rules take precedence. That's at least a cogent system. "Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer" based on looking at the chart isn't really a system, it's a guessing game. > The bottom line is that the Chapter B divider and rule B6.3 didn't match. > *Something* needed errata of *some* sort. Sure. Do note I originally was answering a question on Olive Groves. Ole brought up B6.3, not I. I'll play along though for entertainment's sake though as most of your email addresses B6.3... > You may disagree over where the > errata was best placed; that's your right. It's not a right/wrong question, > though; it's merely Column A or Column B. MMP chose a different Column than > you would have if it had been your choice to make (which it wasn't). OK I'll bite...MMP also chose a different column than they had previously per the V1 Q&A. So MMP has now expressed sentiments for both columns, which is odd at best. > Once you accept the above point, however, what exactly does the argument > become *about*? Well the original question was about Olive Grove LOS and determining which to follow - the rules which clearly state LOS between different levels is blocked & the Ch. B divider which doesn't. When there are conflicts, and no errata, which takes precedence? My opinion is that barring a rule saying otherwise, examples being B.3, ASOP & concealment loss/gain, the rules take precedence. You apparently rely on common sense while Ole goes for the more detailed. That could yield 3 different answers in some cases, which isn't exactly ideal for a codified rules set like ASL. > * "The errata changes the way we play!" Well, obviously. That is one of the > purposes of errata. Typically the goal should be to change the way a minority play by clarifying a rule. I'm not sure that changing the way a majority of the ASL populace plays, particularly when Q&A existed to guide folks in that prior interpretation is a good use of errata. IMO there needs to be a really, really good reason to issue that kind of errata. > * "The errata contradicts previous advice about the rule from 1st edition!" > Yes it does. It's not the first errata to do so, and probably won't be the > last. Although most of the differences I can think of (like motion attempts) are due to changes in the overseer of ASL. Fort changed motion attempts to how he wanted and MMP changed it back to the original vision. I can't think of any where the same body overrode their official Q&A, although those likely exist too I'd guess. > * "It will change the balance of some scenarios!" Quite possibly (although I > strongly doubt that any such change will be terribly significant), but > "changing the balance" is of course not the same as "making the balance > worse". Meaning all those scenarios MMP previously released really weren't balanced? Blasphemer! Frankly that's my biggest fear regarding the B6.3 change. Why run the risk of changing the balance on all those scenarios? What's the point? What can be gained by the change? Guess a skeptic could foresee a cottage industry in re-balancing old bridge scenarios & reprinting revised editions. Maybe I can start a conspiracy theory here? :-) > * "Bridge crossing has become harder!" Yes indeed; now you might expect to be > taking a 2MC instead of a 1MC in a "typical" situation. You should certainly > take this into account when devising your tactics. If no allegedly balanced scenarios existed, I don't have a problem with the change. New scenarios can certainly be designed and balanced with the -1 TEM in mind. The problem is we have a very large installed base & this errata makes a non-trivial change affecting a large number of them. Why make the change & run the risk of mucking with your installed base? Where's the gain? Not to mention we're now in a period of doubt as on ConsimWorld Perry indicated he is looking at the errata again. If I'm designing a bridge crossing, what rule do I apply today? If I'm playtesting one, do I use the -1 TEM or not? > A bigger storm in a smaller teacup is pretty hard to imagine. I'll ask again: > what are all the complaints *about*? -- because it beats the heck out of me. The complaints are: 1) you changed the way the majority of ASLers play the game. 2) you overrode previously issued QA on the topic. 3) you changed the TEM of a key choke point appearing in many a scenario which WILL change the balance of some previously designed scenarios. 4) you took the interpretation of a "cheat sheet" chart on the topic over 4 paragraphs of rules which should have taken precedence (by rule IMO). 5) you didn't even really apply the interpretation from said chart correctly as the errata explicitly states residual gets the -1 TEM while the chart said you have to have LOS for the -1. Residual has no LOS (hence the chart actually said the +1 TEM applies). 6) you apply the -1 TEM w/too broad a brush where it affects vehicle TH attempts unlike boulevards & landing strips - i.e. the -1 is inconsistent w/other similar rules. Other than that, it's a peachy change IMO. Hey, weren't we talking about Olive Groves? Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From damavs at alltel.net Thu Aug 24 07:08:43 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:08:43 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS Message-ID: <20060824140843.EKAW3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> "Sean Deller" writes: > Bret guides me: > >>Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive > Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. > > Good catch. I should have looked there. Late night weariness for me as > well. I missed it as well my first pass through, but got to wondering if the chart entry was always wrong, or it got mucked up in the migration to Ch. B. Good to see it was the latter...I think. At least with Olive Groves we have 4 spots to check, and 3 agree so we can declare majority rules. > Tell me about it. My recent 12-hour night defense of Festung Budapest from > Bill's marauding Russians felt like I had dropped a bar of soap in a prison > shower. I was surprised to here he launched a night attack as the Russkies. Wild Bill & I had decided a Soviet Night attack just gave the Germans way too much free HIP & you'd spend the next couple campaign dates running into HIP Germans. I'll be interested to hear how his strategy works out over the long run... Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From cduke at intelnett.com Thu Aug 24 09:03:33 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:03:33 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS References: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: <005401c6c796$d97170f0$641ea8c0@Duke> I'm beginning a scenario with groves so now I'm interested. Chapter B divider v.2 does specifically say "Hindrance". Newer beats older, and this amounts to an errata to the obviously mistaken entry of chapter F divider. Now you have to weigh that chart not only against the rules, but also against another, more current, chart. I think that question is clear. I think the point is not to get over-legalistic about what takes precedent chart or rule. Both are official, charts are supposed to be reflections or expansions of the rules, and if there is a contradiction undoubtedly it is due to a typo. It is up to MMP to correct these things, as they did with the Olive Grove entry in chapter B divider and with bridges (altough in the case of bridges they seem to have chosen to keep the typo instead of the rule!) ;-) Now there is another thing new and confusing about groves in chapter B v.2 vs chapter F. Vehicles can gain WA in groves and cactus patches? Does this mean even in absence of walls or stuff? And what would the vehicle gain from having WA in these hexes? HD? Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bret & Julie Hildebran" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] olive grove LOS > Bruce Probst writes: >> Only the rule of common sense: >> >> Pretend that the Chapter B divider doesn't exist and has never existed. >> >> Now, tell me how many MP a truck expends to enter an Open Ground hex. > > Actually B.3 tells me to look at the terrain chart in this > case. That the Ch. B divider takes precedence regarding > MPs is in the rules. Beyond MPs though, there is no rules > section saying what takes precedence for LOS blockage or > TEM etc. > > So would the "common sense rule" tell me that Olive Groves > block LOS between different level firers or not? > >> Some charts merely summarise the rules, other charts are an integral part >> of >> the rules. You normally don't need a rule to tell you which is which; >> each >> individual chart makes it obvious through its own form. > > When there's a conflict though, it becomes critical to know > which takes precedence to determine which is in error. And > given the rules do call out explicit times where the charts > rule, it would seem that barring such a rule, the rules > take precedence. That's at least a cogent system. > "Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer" based > on looking at the chart isn't really a system, it's a > guessing game. > >> The bottom line is that the Chapter B divider and rule B6.3 didn't match. >> *Something* needed errata of *some* sort. > > Sure. Do note I originally was answering a question on > Olive Groves. Ole brought up B6.3, not I. I'll play along > though for entertainment's sake though as most of your > email addresses B6.3... > >> You may disagree over where the >> errata was best placed; that's your right. It's not a right/wrong >> question, >> though; it's merely Column A or Column B. MMP chose a different Column >> than >> you would have if it had been your choice to make (which it wasn't). > > OK I'll bite...MMP also chose a different column than they > had previously per the V1 Q&A. So MMP has now expressed > sentiments for both columns, which is odd at best. > >> Once you accept the above point, however, what exactly does the argument >> become *about*? > > Well the original question was about Olive Grove LOS and > determining which to follow - the rules which clearly state > LOS between different levels is blocked & the Ch. B divider > which doesn't. When there are conflicts, and no errata, > which takes precedence? > > My opinion is that barring a rule saying otherwise, > examples being B.3, ASOP & concealment loss/gain, the rules > take precedence. You apparently rely on common sense while > Ole goes for the more detailed. That could yield 3 > different answers in some cases, which isn't exactly ideal > for a codified rules set like ASL. > >> * "The errata changes the way we play!" Well, obviously. That is one of >> the >> purposes of errata. > > Typically the goal should be to change the way a minority > play by clarifying a rule. I'm not sure that changing the > way a majority of the ASL populace plays, particularly when > Q&A existed to guide folks in that prior interpretation is > a good use of errata. IMO there needs to be a really, > really good reason to issue that kind of errata. > >> * "The errata contradicts previous advice about the rule from 1st >> edition!" >> Yes it does. It's not the first errata to do so, and probably won't be >> the >> last. > > Although most of the differences I can think of (like > motion attempts) are due to changes in the overseer of > ASL. Fort changed motion attempts to how he wanted and > MMP changed it back to the original vision. I can't think > of any where the same body overrode their official Q&A, > although those likely exist too I'd guess. > >> * "It will change the balance of some scenarios!" Quite possibly >> (although I >> strongly doubt that any such change will be terribly significant), but >> "changing the balance" is of course not the same as "making the balance >> worse". > > Meaning all those scenarios MMP previously released really > weren't balanced? Blasphemer! > > Frankly that's my biggest fear regarding the B6.3 change. > Why run the risk of changing the balance on all those > scenarios? What's the point? What can be gained by the > change? > > Guess a skeptic could foresee a cottage industry in > re-balancing old bridge scenarios & reprinting revised > editions. Maybe I can start a conspiracy theory here? :-) > >> * "Bridge crossing has become harder!" Yes indeed; now you might expect >> to be >> taking a 2MC instead of a 1MC in a "typical" situation. You should >> certainly >> take this into account when devising your tactics. > > If no allegedly balanced scenarios existed, I don't have > a problem with the change. New scenarios can certainly be > designed and balanced with the -1 TEM in mind. The problem > is we have a very large installed base & this errata makes > a non-trivial change affecting a large number of them. Why > make the change & run the risk of mucking with your > installed base? Where's the gain? > > Not to mention we're now in a period of doubt as on > ConsimWorld Perry indicated he is looking at the errata > again. If I'm designing a bridge crossing, what rule do I > apply today? If I'm playtesting one, do I use the -1 TEM > or not? > >> A bigger storm in a smaller teacup is pretty hard to imagine. I'll ask >> again: >> what are all the complaints *about*? -- because it beats the heck out of >> me. > > The complaints are: > 1) you changed the way the majority of ASLers play the game. > 2) you overrode previously issued QA on the topic. > 3) you changed the TEM of a key choke point appearing in many a scenario > which WILL change the balance of some previously designed scenarios. > 4) you took the interpretation of a "cheat sheet" chart on the topic over > 4 paragraphs of rules which should have taken precedence (by rule IMO). > 5) you didn't even really apply the interpretation from said chart > correctly as the errata explicitly states residual gets the -1 TEM while > the chart said you have to have LOS for the -1. Residual has no LOS > (hence the chart actually said the +1 TEM applies). > 6) you apply the -1 TEM w/too broad a brush where it affects vehicle TH > attempts unlike boulevards & landing strips - i.e. the -1 is inconsistent > w/other similar rules. > > Other than that, it's a peachy change IMO. > > Hey, weren't we talking about Olive Groves? > > Bret Hildebran > damavs at alltel.net > www.aslok.org > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From cduke at intelnett.com Thu Aug 24 09:16:49 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:16:49 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Fw: olive grove LOS Message-ID: <003501c6c798$b3e566f0$641ea8c0@Duke> >> "Sean Deller" writes: >>> Bret guides me: >>> >>Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive >>> Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. >>> >>> Good catch. I should have looked there. Late night weariness for me as >>> well. >> >> I missed it as well my first pass through, but got to >> wondering if the chart entry was always wrong, or it got >> mucked up in the migration to Ch. B. Good to see it was >> the latter...I think. >> >> At least with Olive Groves we have 4 spots to check, and >> 3 agree so we can declare majority rules. I disagree here. I think the Chapter B v.2 FIXED the error in chapter F divider. The three vs. one majority is *against* Olive groves being obstacles. Neither in the chapter F rule or the new chapter B rule does it say that Olive groves become LOS obstacles, which it specifically does in the similar Cactus Patch rule. Charles From jan.spoor at wybesse.net Thu Aug 24 09:34:34 2006 From: jan.spoor at wybesse.net (Jan W. S. Spoor) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Aslml] Fw: olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <003501c6c798$b3e566f0$641ea8c0@Duke> References: <003501c6c798$b3e566f0$641ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <39706.63.125.4.210.1156437274.squirrel@webmail.wybesse.net> Charles Duke wrote: > I disagree here. I think the Chapter B v.2 FIXED the error in chapter F > divider. The three vs. one majority is *against* Olive groves being > obstacles. Neither in the chapter F rule or the new chapter B rule does it > say that Olive groves become LOS obstacles, which it specifically does in > the similar Cactus Patch rule. It lists severl modifications to the orchard rule (TEM, always in season) and says that otherwise they are just like orchards. Orchards are LOS obstacles across elevations. Therefore olive groves are too. Seems pretty clear. From klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se Thu Aug 24 09:42:58 2006 From: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Klas_Malmstr=F6m?=) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:42:58 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <005401c6c796$d97170f0$641ea8c0@Duke> References: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <005401c6c796$d97170f0$641ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <44EDD712.90404@yahoo.se> Hi, Charles Duke skrev: > I'm beginning a scenario with groves so now I'm interested. > > Chapter B divider v.2 does specifically say "Hindrance". Newer beats older, > and this amounts to an errata to the obviously mistaken entry of chapter F > divider. Now you have to weigh that chart not only against the rules, but > also against another, more current, chart. I think that question is clear. > > I think the point is not to get over-legalistic about what takes precedent > chart or rule. Both are official, charts are supposed to be reflections or > expansions of the rules, and if there is a contradiction undoubtedly it is > due to a typo. It is up to MMP to correct these things, as they did with the > Olive Grove entry in chapter B divider and with bridges (altough in the case > of bridges they seem to have chosen to keep the typo instead of the rule!) Not sure that the old Chapter F Divider was correct and the new Chaper B Divider is correct. Rules B14.8 seems pretty clear that an Olive Grove is treated as an in-season Orchard. It is specifically states as never being out of season. Regards, Klas From bpickeri at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 10:59:35 2006 From: bpickeri at gmail.com (Brian Pickering) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:59:35 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Trump card... Message-ID: <885c41aa0608241059j624e65flf707fb2f2a85e4db@mail.gmail.com> http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/nodwick/ffn/ffn.htm Lessee, what's the FP/RA/ML on that? The arrival roll? Does it need to make a sighting task check? -- Brian Pickering bpickeri at gmail.com From cduke at intelnett.com Thu Aug 24 13:21:04 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:21:04 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] Fw: olive grove LOS References: <003501c6c798$b3e566f0$641ea8c0@Duke> <39706.63.125.4.210.1156437274.squirrel@webmail.wybesse.net> Message-ID: <000a01c6c7ba$d3059240$641ea8c0@Duke> Yes, granted, but since the basic effect of orchards, and therefore groves, is hindrance, divider B seems to be closer to the correct. A literal interpretation of chapter F divider's 'One-Level' would be not only that LOS is blocked to different elevation, but to same elevation as well (assuming like most here seem to do, that charts take precedence over rules). The fact that groves block LOS from a higher viewer *only* cannot be inferred from F divider's info. You need to know the rule! Admittedly B v.2 divider should be more explicit ("Level 1* or Hindrance**") but even there you cannot infer that since it says only hindrance, you can ignore the rule that says that it is treated as an orchard in season (with all that entails) and pretend it is like an out of season orchard. (Unless of course if MMP decides again to keep the typo and drop the rule...) Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan W. S. Spoor" To: "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] Fw: olive grove LOS > Charles Duke wrote: > >> I disagree here. I think the Chapter B v.2 FIXED the error in chapter F >> divider. The three vs. one majority is *against* Olive groves being >> obstacles. Neither in the chapter F rule or the new chapter B rule does >> it >> say that Olive groves become LOS obstacles, which it specifically does in >> the similar Cactus Patch rule. > > It lists severl modifications to the orchard rule (TEM, always in season) > and says that otherwise they are just like orchards. Orchards are LOS > obstacles across elevations. Therefore olive groves are too. Seems pretty > clear. > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From oleboe at broadpark.no Thu Aug 24 13:23:38 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:23:38 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: Hi, Bret Hildebran wrote > > IMO there are specific rules which say the chart takes precedence > (B.3, ASOP, concealment are examples), but lacking that where is > there a rule saying the chart is equivalent to the rules? I can't > find one. Where's the rule saying the charts are equal? Why do you > assume that? > I assume that, because both the rules, examples and charts are part of the ASLRB. When the chart, rule and example is in conflict, we have no general rule that tells us which one takes precedence. The only logical conclution I can draw from that, is that there is no general rule of precedence. > >My general point of view is that the most detailed one takes precedence over > >the less detailed one (as the more detailed A10.533 examples took precedence > >of the rule text, and the more detailed part about bridge TEM in > >the terrain chart took precedence over the rule text). > > Hmmmm...A) Where in the rules does it say anything like that is > appropriate? I happen to think that common sense has a place in understanding the rules ;) > So how is the 13 word explanation on the chart, which is far from > clear in it's intent IMO (witness the former Q&A from V1 of the > rules) "more detailed" than those 4 paragraphs talking about bridge > TEM? Frankly it's not. > The chart is of course not more detailed *in all aspects*, but when a chart contains *some* info that is not found elsewhere, it is more detailed about that specific aspect... > Hopefully you can point me to someplace in > the tome which says the Charts are considered equals to the rule I *have* pointed you to the introduction which tells us that also the charts are part of the non-optional basic system and contains rules. But let us turn it around for a moment: Can you point me to someplace in the ASL system that says that charts are considered less important than rules? What about examples? And what about the Index? If you have nothing that indicates this, how can you draw the conclution that one takes precedence? >, but > there's no way you can argue with a straight face that the terrain > chart had more detail on bridge TEM than the body of the rules. It > had something "different" in the odd -1 notation, but it's certainly > not more detailed. > Cool down Bret. Why do I need to argue anything with a straight face? I think you understand what I mean, that the terrain chart had information not mentioned elsewhere, and that it was reason to think that this information was there for a reason. > So since it's considered the equivalent to the rules from your point > of view, can I just choose the one I like best? IMO that's why the > rules take precedence barring a rule to the contrary, you've got to > have some way to determine which is the correct interpretation and an > "equal unless more detailed" just doesn't work IMO. > I'd like to quote Charles Duke here before I answer you, as I think he made an excellent point: I think the point is not to get over-legalistic about what takes precedent chart or rule. Both are official, charts are supposed to be reflections or expansions of the rules, and if there is a contradiction undoubtedly it is due to a typo. I think you we need to consider what we want to achieve by this prioritizing. It seems to me that you Bret, just want a simple way to conclude if two sources in the ASLRB contradicts each other, and you certainly achieve that by making the rule always override the charts. But when two sources contradicts each other, it is certainly not deliberate, but because the writer made some error, or forgot to write a detail. Such an error is just as likely to be made when writing the rule body as when typing the charts - or even more so (IMHO), because charts are easier to review. Yes, I know about many chart errors, but I know about lots of rule errors as well. So when you don't consider which one that seems most likely to be correct, but automatically follows the rule text, you're bound to be wrong about half of the time. If you don't think you and your opponent, or some public community can do better than that by analysing the two, then that's probably a good enough way of doing it. But know that when a contradiction between two sources is found, Perry doesn't automatically follow the rule text, but rather tries to look which one that seems most correct. > Oddly enough the Chapter F divider does have it right. Somehow Olive > Groves wasn't copied over correctly on the Ch. B V2. > I agree that this seems more likely than a deliberate change. > Mainly I'm > interested if there is a rule I've missed saying charts have some > kind of rules equivalent. Barring that, I think the chart's only > take on the "weight" of the rules when a rule specifically grants > them precedence (ASOP etc.) - although perhaps I missed something... > ...and I am interested in knowing where you find the information that rules have more weight than charts - and what about rules compared to examples or the index - or the index compared to a chart? From jan.spoor at wybesse.net Thu Aug 24 13:29:48 2006 From: jan.spoor at wybesse.net (Jan W. S. Spoor) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Aslml] Fw: olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <000a01c6c7ba$d3059240$641ea8c0@Duke> References: <003501c6c798$b3e566f0$641ea8c0@Duke> <39706.63.125.4.210.1156437274.squirrel@webmail.wybesse.net> <000a01c6c7ba$d3059240$641ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <55379.63.125.4.210.1156451388.squirrel@webmail.wybesse.net> Charles Duke wrote: > Yes, granted, but since the basic effect of orchards, and therefore > groves, is hindrance, What is there that says that is sthe "basic effect" of orchards. What discriminates a "basic effect" for any other effect? Orchards are both a Hindrance and (when in season) a LOS obstacle from one level to another. I don't think one of those is somehow more fundamental to the nature of orchards than the other. > divider B seems to be closer to the correct. A literal > interpretation of chapter F divider's 'One-Level' would be not only that > LOS > is blocked to different elevation, but to same elevation as well (assuming > like most here seem to do, that charts take precedence over rules). The > fact > that groves block LOS from a higher viewer *only* cannot be inferred from > F divider's info. You need to know the rule! I think you need to know the rule in every instance. That is why we have the printed rules text, and not just the dividers. :-) From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Thu Aug 24 13:41:48 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Ole Boe wrote: > But when two sources contradicts each other, it is certainly not deliberate, > but because the writer made some error, or forgot to write a detail. Such an > error is just as likely to be made when writing the rule body as when typing > the charts - or even more so (IMHO), because charts are easier to review. I disagree with this general statement. A chart is much harder to proof because the information density is much higher. Text also has some built in redundancy, so many errors are likely to be caught. The high information content of a chart is what makes it useful, but it's often very difficult to find all the errors. So in general, I'd say the order of precedence should be: 1. Examples 2. Rules 3. Charts and other support materials. > But know that when a contradiction between two sources is found, Perry > doesn't automatically follow the rule text, but rather tries to look which > one that seems most correct. > That's because he's comparing each of them to the ruleset in his head. He then rules in favor of the one that most closely resembles this Aristotelian ideal. That's what you mean by "seems most correct." Right? Marty Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From hofors at lysator.liu.se Thu Aug 24 13:58:55 2006 From: hofors at lysator.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_R=F6nnblom?=) Date: 24 Aug 2006 22:58:55 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] J82 and Falling Rubble Message-ID: Hi, ASL Scenario J82 Pavlov's House has the following SSR: "Place a stone rubble counter in hex Z6." Z6 is a multi-level stone building hex. Should I check for Falling Rubble? Regards, Mattias From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Thu Aug 24 14:29:22 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] J82 and Falling Rubble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, [iso-8859-1] Mattias Rönnblom wrote: > ASL Scenario J82 Pavlov's House has the following SSR: > > "Place a stone rubble counter in hex Z6." > > Z6 is a multi-level stone building hex. Should I check for Falling Rubble? > The SSR doesn't say, "create ground level rubble in Z6 according to Bxx.xxx" or anything like that, so I think they just mean you place the one rubble counter. But if you think it would be more fun to check for Falling Rubble, then I'm sure the SSR police would look the other way. :-) Marty "I'm not a chart, nor am I a rule. I barely qualify as an example" Snow Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From damavs at alltel.net Thu Aug 24 15:12:57 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:12:57 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <005401c6c796$d97170f0$641ea8c0@Duke> References: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <005401c6c796$d97170f0$641ea8c0@Duke> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824181055.01b6f740@alltel.net> Charles Duke wrote: >Now there is another thing new and confusing about groves in chapter >B v.2 vs chapter F. Vehicles can gain WA in groves and cactus >patches? Does this mean even in absence of walls or stuff? No. It just means that given a wall being present, an AFV can still qualify for HD if it desires. > And what would the vehicle gain from having WA in these hexes? HD? Yes. If the vehicle claims WA, it would be HD to firers, but would not have the +1 Olive Grove TEM when HD. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From s.deller at charter.net Thu Aug 24 18:07:02 2006 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:07:02 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Budapest CG playtests (was olive grove LOS) References: <20060824140843.EKAW3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: <001101c6c7e2$c7b0d8f0$6eae7744@ht8s631> Bret, I think this was an excellent move by Bill. The night assaults are powerful options for both sides. My German night breakout punished Bill pretty severely by enveloping the majority of his force, resulting in a huge isolated Russian pocket. Being isolated prevented him from repositioning those units that were retained and forced him to enter any RGs he purchased. His subsequent night assault (counter-counterattack?) allowed him to move those reinforcing RGs quickly and safely while at the same time preventing me from repositioning (due to the No Move counters). He compounded this advantage by going idle beforehand, thereby building a larger advantage in the RG squad ratio *and* costing me 2 CPP for the FBs I couldn't use. Brilliant move, really. Consequently, I believe winning this CG (for either side) is dependent on the proper timing and execution of the night assaults. If I was the Russian player, I would not be deterred from launching a night assault by the amount of German HIP. If the time and situation is right, go for it. Cheers, Sean >> Tell me about it. My recent 12-hour night defense of Festung Budapest >> from >> Bill's marauding Russians felt like I had dropped a bar of soap in a >> prison >> shower. > > I was surprised to here he launched a night attack as the > Russkies. Wild Bill & I had decided a Soviet Night attack > just gave the Germans way too much free HIP & you'd spend > the next couple campaign dates running into HIP Germans. > I'll be interested to hear how his strategy works out over > the long run... > > Bret Hildebran > damavs at alltel.net > www.aslok.org > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006 > > From damavs at alltel.net Thu Aug 24 20:57:45 2006 From: damavs at alltel.net (Bret & Julie Hildebran) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:57:45 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060824184536.01b6b6e8@alltel.net> Ole Boe wrote: >I assume that, because both the rules, examples and charts are part of the >ASLRB. When the chart, rule and example is in conflict, we have no general >rule that tells us which one takes precedence. The only logical conclution I >can draw from that, is that there is no general rule of precedence. Basically I have two thoughts on the topic which both would lean towards the rules taking a higher priority than charts. A) When charts take precedence, the rules call them out explicitly (IFT, B.4, Concealment loss/gain etc.) - if the charts were equal, why would the rules need to call them out explicitly? Basically the rules define what takes precedence. B) Based on "the higher alpha-numeric rule case always takes precedence, barring mention of a specific exception." Especially in the case of the terrain chart, bridges would have to be considered B6 on the chart while the rules TEM is B6.3 - it's higher numbered and there's an exception so... >I happen to think that common sense has a place in understanding the rules >;) Sure, but your version of common sense may not match that of another ASLer. That only results in chaos if there is an exception case. I guess I prefer a more codified priority of rules/charts/etc. than you're interested in. Having to guess "what would Perry say?" anytime there is a difference due to an error isn't of much interest to me. I want to play ASL, not wait on "Perry Sez" to move my next unit... >The chart is of course not more detailed *in all aspects*, but when a chart >contains *some* info that is not found elsewhere, it is more detailed about >that specific aspect... I'd call that "different" not "more detailed". By your definition, any typo would be "more detailed" due to the error. Frankly that doesn't make sense IMO. >I *have* pointed you to the introduction which tells us that also the charts >are part of the non-optional basic system and contains rules. Hmmmm. Well I did see this morning you posted that on the forums - which I read well after the missive you responded too. That's an ugly paragraph in the intro & needs errata IMO - that part about "...which lists its Table of Contents as well..." is particularly fallacious. Where are the table of contents on A, C & D dividers? Given that patent falsehood, it wasn't clear to me if the continuing words were meant to describe the rules or the divider since the Table of Contents is clearly on page 1 of the rules or the rules in the rules proper. > But let us >turn it around for a moment: Can you point me to someplace in the ASL system >that says that charts are considered less important than rules? What about >examples? And what about the Index? I'd argue that all the rules sections that say when the charts take precedence give an indication that the rules are paramount. I'm not aware of any precedence assigned to the examples or index. >Cool down Bret. Why do I need to argue anything with a straight face? I >think you understand what I mean, that the terrain chart had information not >mentioned elsewhere, and that it was reason to think that this information >was there for a reason. I meant no offense, but there's a big gap in meaning from "different" to "more detailed". The Bridge divider issue is not "more detailed", it's "different". Why it's different is anyone's guess at this point IMO. The first guess was it was just oddly expressed. Now a 2nd guess has been made, but IMO the errata still doesn't match the chart w/regards to residual, given residual has no LOS, so how can the -1 apply? My apologies if I overreacted to your choice of words, but I strongly disagree with the thought that the Bridge chart is "more detailed" than the rules. >I'd like to quote Charles Duke here before I answer you, as I think he made >an excellent point: > I think the point is not to get over-legalistic about what takes > precedent chart or rule. Both are official, charts are supposed > to be reflections or expansions of the rules, and if there is a > contradiction undoubtedly it is due to a typo. Which would seemingly imply the chart is incorrect due to a typo. Unless you believe we had a 4 paragraph typo in the Bridge rules starting w/B6.3. >I think you we need to consider what we want to achieve by this >prioritizing. It seems to me that you Bret, just want a simple way to >conclude if two sources in the ASLRB contradicts each other, and you >certainly achieve that by making the rule always override the charts. IMO having a believed valid source code is important. When you copy your source to multiple places you run the risk of errors creeping in & if there's inconsistencies you need to know which takes precedence to resolve differences. If we could guarantee the sanctity of the copies, it wouldn't matter, but obviously we can't. If there's a discrepancy, it's useful to know which is considered sacrosanct to resolve that issue quickly and easily. Obviously we're better w/no errors, but that's not realistic. But it's less realistic to guess what Perry will think and/or wait for an official ruling. It's not a practical way to play the game. >But when two sources contradicts each other, it is certainly not deliberate, >but because the writer made some error, or forgot to write a detail. Such an >error is just as likely to be made when writing the rule body as when typing >the charts - or even more so (IMHO), because charts are easier to review. >Yes, I know about many chart errors, but I know about lots of rule errors as >well. But charts are a very cryptic notation of the rules. The rules typically have more details to gleen mistakes from the context. Charts just offer you a snippet to interpret. Tell me that a notation like: "LOS:-1*/+1" "If LOS is through road depiction; otherwise +1; TEM +1" isn't cryptic compared to the 4 paragraphs of rules. >So when you don't consider which one that seems most likely to be correct, >but automatically follows the rule text, you're bound to be wrong about half >of the time. If you don't think you and your opponent, or some public >community can do better than that by analysing the two, then that's probably >a good enough way of doing it. Can you provide any examples where the chart was dead on and the rule was incorrect? I'm having difficulty believing the 50% off the cuff answer. Perhaps I'm just a skeptic. >But know that when a contradiction between two sources is found, Perry >doesn't automatically follow the rule text, but rather tries to look which >one that seems most correct. By interpreting what he thinks the rules should be. >...and I am interested in knowing where you find the information that rules >have more weight than charts - and what about rules compared to examples or >the index - or the index compared to a chart? As mentioned previously I believe the rules explicitly calling out charts at times is indicative of that & I think the higher rule # clause typically would defer to the rules proper, particularly regarding the terrain chart. I'm not aware of the index or examples being explicitly ordered - but the index is just an index referring to a rule proper, the rule itself should override IMO. I'd tend to follow the rule over the example if there's a conflict. IMO the example should just be illustrating parts of the rule and not altering a rule. The latter pair are my viewpoint of course - are there examples where a rule changed when it conflicted w/an example? I know some examples have been in error, but I believe they were changed, not the rule proper. Bret Hildebran damavs at alltel.net www.aslok.org From payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com Thu Aug 24 21:04:39 2006 From: payne-asl2 at nc.rr.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:04:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB References: Message-ID: Janusz Maxe writes: > > The Russians are attacking in RBIII, 29 october, and about 150 squads are using the night as cover. > > Question: > How did you handle the huge amount of cloak, HIP, dummies, starshells and so on? > How long did it take to play such a CG-scen? We have about 250 units onboard, plus dummies. > Was it fun, or merely frustrating? > Go for it Dude! Russians should kick some butt in a night scenario with that many units. I am partial to night scenarios anyway, but that would be really cool attack. Remember that the defender has his ELR dropped by an additional 1, so if your ELRs are low, the German can really have his quality drop. Also, a night scenario could give the Russian a chance to recapture lost ground and maybe capture some German SW. A few months ago some friends had a RB CG going about that 10/29 date. Both ERLs were 1. Russian night attack and German ELR of 0! We used ? from French, British and US to get enough cloaking counters. Big Al Saltzman had a spreadsheet with the contents of each ? noted on it. The biggest problem was accidentally overstacking and then losing cloaking and concealment. Also, too many dummies ended up behind real units. Drawing fire with the dummies would have been helpful. Also, you can split a concealed (real) unit out of a cloaked counter, to probe with to help keep cloaking for the rest of the units in that cloak. It helps as you move through concealment terrain. Expect starshells everywhere you want to go and some nasty HIP kill stacks. I handled the southern flank through turn 4 and really took back some ground and captured a key building with 4 German HMGs in it. It was great blasting the Jerries with their own HMGs as they tried to regain control. (Screw the automatic SAN against the firing unit, I'd rather watch the 548's become 447s or bodies.) We broke for the night after turn 4 and I didn't make it back for the rest. Unfortunately, Al rolled a 1 on the end of game dr and also lost building and the HMGs back to the German. In a future night attack I think I would send a lot more guys through the sewers early to get behind the German while he has no moves on him. Then if he breaks, I could catch him in more of a vice and hopefully eliminate more squads in CC. Chuck From robertthepastor at juno.com Thu Aug 24 23:06:03 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:06:03 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] J82 and Falling Rubble Message-ID: <20060824.234106.24752.3.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, Marty gave us a sig line of: Marty "I'm not a chart, nor am I a rule. I barely qualify as an example" Snow Yes, Marty, but you are a wonderful example of an "In-Season pink, soft Hindrance." (Chas Argent's picture of you in your pink shirt from ASLOK two years ago is blindingly classy!!) Robert "longing for an ASLOK experience" Hammond From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Aug 24 23:55:36 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:55:36 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] J82 and Falling Rubble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:29:22 -0600 (MDT), Marty Snow wrote: >> ASL Scenario J82 Pavlov's House has the following SSR: >> >> "Place a stone rubble counter in hex Z6." >> >> Z6 is a multi-level stone building hex. Should I check for Falling Rubble? > >The SSR doesn't say, "create ground level rubble in Z6 according to >Bxx.xxx" or anything like that, so I think they just mean you place the >one rubble counter. I agree ... but it would be nice if the SSR were more specific. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 25 00:01:24 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:01:24 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <44ED9C18.70609@wybesse.net> References: <20060823135507.YUQM4897.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060824004012.01b615e8@alltel.net> <44ED9C18.70609@wybesse.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:31:20 -0400, Jan Spoor wrote: >Well, actually, I think the argument in original post in this thread had >nothing to do with B6.3. I agree, but I wasn't the person who raised the J7 errata as though it were somehow relevant to the original question. Did I respond to the original question? If I didn't it was because I agreed with what had already been said -- it appears (given the other evidence) to be an error in the Chapter B divider re: Olive Groves. >Which of those takes precedence is an important issue. Well, in general I disagree. I don't think either really has preference, both are integral to the other. See my reply to Bret. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Aug 25 00:19:54 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:19:54 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] olive grove LOS In-Reply-To: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> References: <20060824140238.EBRK3855.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@webmail-relay.alltel.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:02:38 -0400, Bret & Julie Hildebran wrote: >Actually B.3 tells me to look at the terrain chart in this >case. That the Ch. B divider takes precedence regarding >MPs is in the rules. Beyond MPs though, there is no rules >section saying what takes precedence for LOS blockage or >TEM etc. Indeed. So why do you think that one has precedence over the other? My contention is that both are equally important. Hence, if one says "X" and the other says "Y", one of them is in error. One of them needs correction. It then becomes a decision as to which one. In the specific case of Olive Groves, I agree with the previous conclusion that the Chapter B chart is in error (but ultimately that will be up to MMP to decide). In the specific case of Bridge TEM, MMP opted to change the rules text. >When there's a conflict though, it becomes critical to know >which takes precedence to determine which is in error. Neither takes precedence. You merely have to decide which one you think is more likely to be correct, until MMP issues errata to make the question moot. >"Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer" based >on looking at the chart isn't really a system, it's a >guessing game. I'm sorry that you think so, but I disagree. (There are some rules, here and there, where you really don't have any guidance in the text, and you just have to "guess" what to do. This isn't one of them, it isn't even *close* to being one of them.) >Sure. Do note I originally was answering a question on >Olive Groves. Ole brought up B6.3, not I. I don't think it helps anyone to play disingenuous. Your original post opened the door, and then Bruce B. walked through. If the pair of you had stayed on topic to the original question, this thread would now be closed. Ole responded to that, and I'm responding to your response to Ole. >OK I'll bite...MMP also chose a different column than they >had previously per the V1 Q&A. So MMP has now expressed >sentiments for both columns, which is odd at best. Huh? They chose A, and then subsequently changed their mind and chose "B". What do "sentiments" have to do with it? It isn't a question about taste, it's an either/or decision. >When there are conflicts, and no errata, which takes precedence? Neither *automatically* has precedence. You base your decision on whatever information you have available. >My opinion is that barring a rule saying otherwise, >examples being B.3, ASOP & concealment loss/gain, the rules >take precedence. You're entitled to that opinion, but I don't see anything in the text of the rules that supports it ... the opposite, if anything. >If I'm designing a bridge crossing, what rule do I apply today? The one that's in print, of course. ("In print" meaning "incorporating all available official errata", of course.) To do otherwise is to design a scenario using a house rule. Not very clever, IMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From s.deller at charter.net Fri Aug 25 09:46:09 2006 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:46:09 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB References: Message-ID: <004001c6c865$f7c51be0$6eae7744@ht8s631> Holy cow, Batman! How on earth did the Russians build up such a force?!? Tell Paulus to pack his bags; he's doomed. Cheers, Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janusz Maxe" To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:54 AM Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB > The Russians are attacking in RBIII, 29 october, and about 150 squads are > using the night as cover. > > Question: > How did you handle the huge amount of cloak, HIP, dummies, starshells and > so on? > How long did it take to play such a CG-scen? We have about 250 units > onboard, plus dummies. > Was it fun, or merely frustrating? > > Janusz > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006 > > From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Fri Aug 25 10:19:23 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB In-Reply-To: <004001c6c865$f7c51be0$6eae7744@ht8s631> References: <004001c6c865$f7c51be0$6eae7744@ht8s631> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sean Deller wrote: > Holy cow, Batman! How on earth did the Russians build up such a force?!? I was thinking the same thing. If you buy two companies a day, it would take about 6 days to get 150 squads. If the Germans have 100 squads, there must be a heck of a lot of idle dates in this CG. > > Tell Paulus to pack his bags; he's doomed. Yeah, I'm not sure you need to play it out. If the Russians have a 3-2 advantage in squads, how can the Germans possibly win? Marty Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From kevinkenneally at isot.com Fri Aug 25 10:21:27 2006 From: kevinkenneally at isot.com (kevinkenneally@isot.com) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:21:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB In-Reply-To: References: <004001c6c865$f7c51be0$6eae7744@ht8s631> Message-ID: <1454.204.249.124.67.1156526487.squirrel@wmail.isot.com> Great dice rolls, and many mistakes from the careless leader from Rodina > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sean Deller wrote: > >> Holy cow, Batman! How on earth did the Russians build up such a >> force?!? > > I was thinking the same thing. If you buy two companies a day, it would > take about 6 days to get 150 squads. If the Germans have 100 squads, > there must be a heck of a lot of idle dates in this CG. > >> >> Tell Paulus to pack his bags; he's doomed. > > Yeah, I'm not sure you need to play it out. If the Russians have a 3-2 > advantage in squads, how can the Germans possibly win? > > Marty > > Marty Snow > marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu > http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > ************************************** Computer problems? ................... ..............http://www.multibyte.net From dreenstra at comcast.net Fri Aug 25 12:08:49 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:08:49 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Q on MTR hitting out of LOS target In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060825190854.51C911BCE9@che.dreamhost.com> Hello all, Okay, I know this question or something similar has been asked and answered a dozen times. Forgive my fading memory. A MTR fires on a multi-level building containing an in-LOS, unconcealed enemy unit at Lvl 2 and an out of LOS concealed enemy unit at Lvl 0 as well as an unconcealed enemy unit also at Lvl 0. Does the +2 DRM for Case K apply in determining the "highest net TH DRM for that shot" according to C3.33? Or is it really "highest net TH DRM" for an in-LOS unit? If case K doesn't apply in this situation, it seems a little strange that, were the concealed unit on Lvl 1 and in-LOS in this situation, its presence there would "protect" the out of LOS unit on Lvl 0 in certain instances (where the TH DR is high enough that application of Case K would cause the concealed unit, and the out of LOS unit, to be missed), simply by being in a different location. Thanks, Dave Reenstra From oleboe at broadpark.no Fri Aug 25 16:06:05 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:06:05 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] Q on MTR hitting out of LOS target In-Reply-To: <20060825190854.51C911BCE9@che.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: Hi, David Reenstra wrote: > A MTR fires on a multi-level building containing an in-LOS, unconcealed > enemy unit at Lvl 2 and an out of LOS concealed enemy unit at Lvl > 0 as well > as an unconcealed enemy unit also at Lvl 0. Does the +2 DRM for Case K > apply in determining the "highest net TH DRM for that shot" according to > C3.33? No. > Or is it really "highest net TH DRM" for an in-LOS unit? Yes, because only units in LOS can ever be targeted (as per A6.1) So the actual target is the unit in LOS, and the +2 Case K DRM doesn't apply vs it. > If case K doesn't apply in this situation, it seems a little strange that, > were the concealed unit on Lvl 1 and in-LOS in this situation, > its presence > there would "protect" the out of LOS unit on Lvl 0 in certain instances > (where the TH DR is high enough that application of Case K would cause the > concealed unit, and the out of LOS unit, to be missed), simply by > being in a different location. > Yes, it is a little bit strange, but that's the price we pay for having a pretty abstract rule for determining how out-of LOS units can be hit. Another strange effect is if you have a building with a concealed enemy unit in level 0, and an unconcealed enemy unit inlevel 1, and where the level-0 LOS is hindered by +4 Hindrance or so. The level-0 unit receives Case K +2 DRM, +4 Hindrance DRM, for a total DRM of +6, requiring an improbable hit by your mortar. But if you first get a SMOKE round to hit (preferrably a +2 SMOKE - I assume it happened during the DFFPh), the Hindrance vs level-0 is increased to +6 and therefore blocks the LOS. So now you automatically hit the (out-of-LOS) level-0 unit if you hit the level-1 unit that only has the SMOKE +2 DRM. In effect, by placing the +2 SMOKE between you and the target hex, you increased your hit chances vs the level-0 unit from an improbable hit, to needing to roll 5 or less :-) From gr27134 at charter.net Sat Aug 26 07:55:14 2006 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB In-Reply-To: <004001c6c865$f7c51be0$6eae7744@ht8s631> Message-ID: No joke... The German ought to just toss in the towel on this one. He obviously hasn't put enough pressure on the Russian. The German has to maintain a "1.8/1 - 2.2/1" squad kill ratio to even have a chance in the CG. If the Russian has 150 squads then the German has clearly NOT hit the magic number. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net > [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Sean Deller > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:46 AM > To: Janusz Maxe; aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] Night in RB > > > Holy cow, Batman! How on earth did the Russians build up such a force?!? > > Tell Paulus to pack his bags; he's doomed. > > Cheers, > Sean > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janusz Maxe" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:54 AM > Subject: [Aslml] Night in RB > > > > The Russians are attacking in RBIII, 29 october, and about 150 > squads are > > using the night as cover. > > > > Question: > > How did you handle the huge amount of cloak, HIP, dummies, > starshells and > > so on? > > How long did it take to play such a CG-scen? We have about 250 units > > onboard, plus dummies. > > Was it fun, or merely frustrating? > > > > Janusz > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: > 8/23/2006 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From dreenstra at comcast.net Sat Aug 26 11:50:13 2006 From: dreenstra at comcast.net (David Reenstra) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:50:13 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Q on MTR hitting out of LOS target In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060823152120.0209e5c8@hughes.net> Message-ID: <20060826185002.F065F1BB73@che.dreamhost.com> Didn't see this come through, sorry if I'm repeating myself... Hello all, Okay, I know this question or something similar has been asked and answered a dozen times. Forgive my fading memory. A MTR fires on a multi-level building containing an in-LOS, unconcealed enemy unit at Lvl 2 and an out of LOS concealed enemy unit at Lvl 0 as well as an unconcealed enemy unit also at Lvl 0. Does the +2 DRM for Case K apply in determining the "highest net TH DRM for that shot" according to C3.33? Or is it really "highest net TH DRM" for an in-LOS unit? If case K doesn't apply in this situation, it seems a little strange that, were the concealed unit on Lvl 1 and in-LOS in this situation, its presence there would "protect" the out of LOS unit on Lvl 0 in certain instances (where the TH DR is high enough that application of Case K would cause the concealed unit, and the out of LOS unit, to be missed), simply by being in a different location. Thanks, Dave Reenstra From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Sat Aug 26 13:19:08 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:19:08 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] look who's coming to the 2006 Canadian ASL Open so far... Message-ID: <2b8228f00608261319s643683c9q34ac3884afd3e9d@mail.gmail.com> Here are the ASL players who have told me that they will attend the Canadian ASL Open in Montreal during September 15-17. Andre Escobedo (Montreal) Bill Bird (Winnipeg) Blair Bellamy (Toronto) Bruno L'Archeveque (Montreal) Dan Ledoux (Montreal) Darren Kovacs (Winnipeg) Denis Dorion (Kingston) Eric Laimer (Toronto) Erik Lindblad (Montreal) Gerry Proudfoot (Edmonton) Jean-Pierre Raymond (Montreal) Jim McLeod (Winnipeg) Michael Rodgers (Montreal) Russel Williams (Toronto) Steffen Knippel (Toronto) Some of these players are among the best in Canada. Remember, if you live in Toronto, Ottawa, Kingston or any of the New England states, you have all Friday morning to drive here before the tournament start time of 1 PM. See you there! -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From pzchala at hotmail.com Sat Aug 26 18:03:33 2006 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:03:33 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] SP061 Operation Exodus AAR In-Reply-To: <44DEF808.7040400@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Message-ID: Saved this to read at my leisure, and am glad I did. Nice AAR, Chris! Mike Pierzchala >From: Chris Netherton >To: ASL Mailing List >Subject: [Aslml] SP061 Operation Exodus AAR >Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:59:36 +0100 > > > Hello! > This is an AAR for SP61 that's been sitting around on my hard drive > for a few months due to football and sunshine induced memory loss! > Went to Double One in London this May and played two games and had a > lot of fun. > I'd half written the AAR for the other scenario I played (J94 Kempf at > Melikhovo) and seeing as we're having more traditional summer weather > in Britain at the minute, I was going to try and finish it off. > Unfortunately coming back to it three months later I realise that I > now have no idea of how the game panned out!! > Anyway, a belated thanks to Brendan for organising the tournament and > an AAR for SP61. > Chris > SP061 Operation Exodus > Played Operation Exodus as the attacking Commando's versus Chris > Ager's defending Germans. This has four and a half 6-4-8s attacking > five 4-4-7s, both sides get two leaders each. The commando's get two > airborne mortars and three demo charges along with a hero who gets a > handsome -3 DRM when he fires a LMG all by himself. The German's get > two medium machine guns and a 9-1. The bridges over the board 23 canal > don't exist and one of the German MMGs has to set up on this part of > the map, to make up for this it is manned by a 2-2-8. To win the > commando's have to clear a clutch of buildings in the centre of board > 23 and to get there they have to cross half of board 44. > Chris set up with a screen of units on the board 44 wood line > defending the open ground I had to cross to get at him. Most of the > territory I had to cover was open ground except on the British right > where there was a thin line of trees that would let me get a bit > closer. I plump for the obvious crossing. The plan is to use one > mortar to place some smoke to reduce the effectiveness of cross fire > from German units on my left and to cover a direct assault on the > right. I aim to place the hero and his LMG on the left hand side of my > assault to deter any German attempt to laterally reinforce his defence > in the section of the map where I plan to attack. > Turn one goes pretty well. I only get one Smoke round down but this is > enough to deter Chris from firing, he elects to keep concealment and > keep me guessing. I manage to get units right round to 44O1 and got a > HS up to the 44M3 building which turned out to contain a HS and a > squad. I rode my luck here as none of my units broke in the MPh or > DFPh. My advancing fire broke the squad in 44M3 and we realised in the > rout phase that grain was out of season so he had to surrender. I > elected not to advance my HS into CC in 44M3 as he was now a guard in > addition to being CX so I left the German HS to sweat it out for > another turn. I brought a couple of units adjacent in the APh, moved > my flanking units one hex closer to their goal and shifted the mortars > as well. I put the LMG and hero in a position to interdict any > attempts (however unlikely) to reinforce 44M3. In German turn 1 the HS > failed to shift any of the commando's facing him and broke in DF. > Elsewhere the Germans shuttled back from the British right and moved > towards the buildings on board 23. One mistake I made here was not > leaving my guards adjacent to 44M3 as it meant another unit had to > accept the prisoners. > In turn 2 I continued my left hook and managed to brave the DF flung > at me and by the end of the MPh had one unit adjacent to the first > victory building hex in 23J8. This contained a German squad and LMG. > The commando LMG and hero was again on over watch duty and had his > sights set on interdicting German movement across the road to the > victory area from the south western corner of board 23. This area of > the board was dominated by a large multi-storey wooden building > (23E9-F9) that contained the German MMG and a leader. I was feeling > reasonably happy as I felt I could prevent Chris from reinforcing the > victory hexes, things were looking ok! I suffered a Pin result that > prevented me from diving into CC and my AF did not have much effect so > I was faced with a 12 FP flat attack in the up coming German Prep fire > phase. Fortunately I managed to survive it! Little was I to know that > this was the last phase that my 8 morale troops would be passing their > checks! In DF I get a chance to hammer the German squad with a 20 up 2 > fire group with both British leaders. I roll a six and another six. > The Hero tries to make amends and fires 2 up 1 and I roll a six and > then another six. Both LMGs broken! > Turn 3. I fail to repair any of my broken SW and Prep succeeds in > breaking the mortar that still had smoke. I try and dislodge the > Germans in 23J8 as well, but this gets nowhere. I shuffle a few more > troops forward, trying to AM into the open ground and soak up some > fire. After German defensive fire and turn 3 prep most of the > commando's are sulking in either the woods on the border of board 44 > and board 23, or in the terraced housing in 23K7, L7 and M8. The lone > stalwart is of course Corporal Hunter who is the only British unit to > get to the centre of board 23. He awaits his fate in 23I9. In German > turn 3 Chris fails to shift him and in DF he gets to show his mettle > as he catches a squad trying to bypass. Unfortunately his LMG has long > gone, but I roll low enough for a morale check and it's Chris' turn to > roll boxcars. One conscript HS is the result! > Turn 4. I get some of my units rallied and then break them again in > the movement phase as Chris keeps up the pressure with his MMGs. > However, I do manage to dash a HS (still carrying his broken, > smokeless mortar) into 23i9. I actually manage to survive the DF and > pile in for a ruck. We're both deadly in close combat and the end > result is an empty building. In the RPh of German turn 4 I get HOB > rallying my units and generate another hero. Chris tries to reinforce > the victory buildings from 23E9 with his MMG and squad, but they end > up pinned in the road. The 7-0 does get across and the last turn of > the game gives us both a chance of victory! > Turn 5. The only German's left in the centre of board 23 are all in > 23H7. Chris has his 7-0 in the ground floor and a 9-1, LMG and squad > upstairs. Virtually all of my units are 6MF or more away. I'm not > going to be able to get to 23H7, overrun the 7-0 and whack the units > upstairs in CC with the last throw of the game... However, one thing > that I haven't tried yet, well three things actually, are the demo > charges. Rumour has it that these can rubble buildings.... > Unfortunately one is lying in the middle of a road junction. Anywho, > my MMCs pass their charges to their SMCs and I prepare myself for a > mad dash. Dodging the bullets my 9-1 delivers his present to the > grateful German 7-0. I get a couple of units up close and personal, > but one breaks in the 9-1's hex. The hero then charges up, casually > throwing his DC into the mix before moving behind the German's into > 23H6. My sniper gets activated which would have been a cruel way to > end the game, but the MMG squad that got pinned in the road take it! > By the end of the MPh we have to remove a lot of residual firepower > counters; however there are two ominous ticking sounds emanating from > the ground floor of 23H7. What's more I have a string of units around > the hex which will give me an encircling shot after the DCs go off. > Boooommm!! 2KIA. I need a subsequent dr of 1 to bring the whole lot > down. I roll.... a 2! Damn! Second one goes off, but to no avail. My > firegroup totals up to a 12 FP attack and encircles the Germans. I > score a 1MC, but Chris pulls it off with style. The 9-1 makes it and > the squad rolls just enough to stay in good order. The German's have > it! A very enjoyable scenario, the first two turns went all my way, > then Chris took over for the next two before the final showdown. >_______________________________________________ >aslml mailing list >aslml at lists.aslml.net >http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net >To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline From robertthepastor at juno.com Sat Aug 26 20:15:51 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:15:51 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC Message-ID: <20060826.201559.33076.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, With the errata of adding British Vehicle Note CC, some British-made tanks may cross a Double-Crest Line. QUESTION: May a British-made tank which has been assigned British Vehicle Note CC cross a *Slope-Crest* hexside? Take care, Robert From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 27 12:04:58 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:04:58 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: <20060826.201559.33076.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20060826.201559.33076.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <82r3f21t527bb5stj3r1cmbstcsibmoa90@4ax.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:15:51 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >QUESTION: May a British-made tank which has been assigned British Vehicle >Note CC cross a *Slope-Crest* hexside? No. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From albcann at warwick.net Sun Aug 27 13:19:59 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 Message-ID: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal 7? Al Cann From cduke at intelnett.com Sun Aug 27 13:32:01 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:32:01 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] J7 References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <000801c6ca17$dc22bb00$641ea8c0@Duke> You should. I ordered J4 and J5 some time ago and they never arrived. Worst still, J4 is now out of print. $50.00 down the... Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "al cann" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: [Aslml] J7 > Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal > 7? > > Al Cann > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From reamees at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 18:32:49 2006 From: reamees at earthlink.net (Raymond Woloszyn) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:32:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Aslml] "Das Oberkommando der Wehrmacht gibt bekannt:" Message-ID: <22456056.1156728769353.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> My playing speed must be increasing because I got another two games in on Saturday out of the new journal, "Flanking Flamethrowers" and "Yelnya". Like the previous week I was the Germans in both. Unfortunately like the previous week, I lost them both. Obviously the Wochenschau will have to show some pretty German farm girls rather than victorius panzers. My dueling partner was again Dave Stephens in "Yelnya" but in "Flamethrowers" he teamed with Tony Hutton. I lost both games by two VP's failing to exit or get into the victory area. In "Yelnya" I rolled non-stop through the stream and the Russian left flank. My AFV's did not bog and one armored car scooted down the road and off the board while Dave was shifting troops to meet my unexpected line of advance. The other armored car got hit by the Russian 76L which turned it into spare parts. Having only lost one squad due to a failure to rout, the last turn saw my AFV's fail to get smoke or hurt the Russians with bounding fire. Dave cleverly fired at each AFV as it moved off the board leaving lots of small residual fire markers. Every SS squad save one and all leaders broke or pinned on the carpet residual fire left by essentially conscript troops. Frustrating! I should have opted to close with Russians hiding in the woods the turn before and force the issue with CC. "Flamethrowers" witnessed the Germans run down the Russian right flank of a forward defense. Perhaps it was a trap because I got the Germans sandwiched in between Tony's chasing Russians and Dave's arriving Russians and lost too many men due to failure to rout. In retrospect I should have left more of a rear guard. The loss of one AFV and the recall of the other made things a bit tough but I expected to lose one to the hidden Russian AT gun at some point in the game. One clever move was Dave bringing on a commissar with the flamethrower. Call it party discipline but at one point Dave had both the commissar and a 628 in a key spot with flamethrowers. My one hero with a squad got a K that killed the commissar and the 628 leaving both flamethrowers abandoned. However, too little, too late. I could have had those two lost VP's back at any point in the game. Talk about ways to lose sleep over one's play. "Zadra" From robertthepastor at juno.com Sun Aug 27 20:25:54 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:25:54 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC Message-ID: <20060827.204149.40456.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Listers, I asked, "May a British-made tank which has been assigned British Vehicle Note CC cross a *Slope-Crest* hexside?" Bruce responded, "No." Alrighty then Bruce --- why not?? These tanks can cross a Double-Crest line! A Slope-Crest is actually _less_ steep than a Double-Crest line!! Robert "Known to question the Almighty" Hammond From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 27 22:48:17 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:48:17 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: <20060827.204149.40456.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20060827.204149.40456.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:25:54 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >I asked, "May a British-made tank which has been assigned British Vehicle >Note CC cross a *Slope-Crest* hexside?" > >Bruce responded, "No." > >Alrighty then Bruce --- why not?? Because there's no rule that provides an EXC to the general prohibition. *** BTW, this is as opportune a moment to point out to anyone in possession of the "second edition" (aka "ATS Reprint") of Critical Hit's "Scotland the Brave" map 1: for some reason known only to themselves CH have turned the actual winding road ascending the slopes from I21 to I22 into a straight road driving straight up the hill -- right across a slope/crestline hexside. I.E., when they reprinted the map, CH have made the road impassable to vehicles. I've confirmed with Ian Daglish that this was news to him (in fact CH never consulted Ian at all when they reprinted the map, which also means that an item of known errata was not applied to the reprinted map). The road should not cross the I21/I22 hexside: it should instead loop a couple of hexes to the east and then take a hairpin turn back again. The VASL map is available to indicate the way it should run. I have already made myself a little overlay to paste onto the map to fix the errata referred to above (a building in one of the villages is in the wrong hex); I'll now make myself another one to fix the road. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Aug 27 22:50:16 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:50:16 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400, "al cann" wrote: >Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal 7? Why are you asking us, and not MMP? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From jpcole at westnet.com.au Mon Aug 28 04:58:21 2006 From: jpcole at westnet.com.au (Jon Cole) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:58:21 +0800 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Detection question - A12.15 Message-ID: <000301c6ca99$422beda0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Greetings to all. Had the following come up in a recent game and I'm seeking the opinions of others on the list. Situation: It is my Mph and I have a concealed squad in 10D5. In 10D6 my opponent has two counters beneath a "?" counter. Lets say they are a squad and a HS. I declare Assualt move and move my squad into 10D6. My opponent reveals the HS, bounces me back so I lose concealment and declares a Defensive First Fire attack. All this is clear to me. However I believe my opponent must determine who loses "?" by Random Selection [with the possibilty of a tie and both his units losing concealment]> A12.15 lines 5-6 says "the DEFENDER must immediately reveal at least one concealed unit..." while lines 30-30 say "Random selection is used to determine which of multiple concealed units must lose their concealment..." My opponent felt the Random selection was not needed as he revealed the HS and announced the attack. My take is once I announce the MFs to enter 10D6, the "immediately reveal at least one concealed unit" comes into effect, with the (at least) one unit determined by Random selection. Any attack annouced would be subsequent to this. To avoid the Random selection and the possibilty of his squad in 10D6 losing concealment, he would have had to voluntarily drop "?" on the HS prior to my announcing my movem,ent of my squad in 10D5. Appreciate your thoughts/comments TIA Cheers Jon From mtrodgers99 at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 09:55:03 2006 From: mtrodgers99 at gmail.com (M Rodgers) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:55:03 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Detection question - A12.15 In-Reply-To: <000301c6ca99$422beda0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> References: <000301c6ca99$422beda0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: <2b8228f00608280955o6224cdcfv4d24439f96e6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> You are right and your opponent is wrong. You quoted the correct rules section. Your opponent needed to act before you entered the enemy hex if he wished to control which unit lost concealment. On 8/28/06, Jon Cole wrote: > Greetings to all. > > Had the following come up in a recent game and I'm seeking the opinions of > others on the list. > > Situation: It is my Mph and I have a concealed squad in 10D5. In 10D6 my > opponent has two counters beneath a "?" counter. Lets say they are a squad > and a HS. > I declare Assualt move and move my squad into 10D6. My opponent reveals the > HS, bounces me back so I lose concealment and declares a Defensive First > Fire attack. All this is clear to me. > > However I believe my opponent must determine who loses "?" by Random > Selection [with the possibilty of a tie and both his units losing > concealment]> A12.15 lines 5-6 says "the DEFENDER must immediately reveal at > least one concealed unit..." while lines 30-30 say "Random selection is used > to determine which of multiple concealed units must lose their > concealment..." > > My opponent felt the Random selection was not needed as he revealed the HS > and announced the attack. > > My take is once I announce the MFs to enter 10D6, the "immediately reveal at > least one concealed unit" comes into effect, with the (at least) one unit > determined by Random selection. Any attack annouced would be subsequent to > this. To avoid the Random selection and the possibilty of his squad in 10D6 > losing concealment, he would have had to voluntarily drop "?" on the HS > prior to my announcing my movem,ent of my squad in 10D5. > > Appreciate your thoughts/comments > > TIA > > Cheers > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Michael Rodgers Montreal From gd891 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 28 10:07:40 2006 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd891) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> Message-ID: Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 Hungarian squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more squads in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the buildings. I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and the playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the buildings. I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such a short one like this. Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? Greg From homercles11 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 28 10:09:10 2006 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:09:10 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: <000801c6cac4$7800b1b0$39ea12a7@accounts.root.corp> Message-ID: 4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. Paul Kenny Owner of Fanatic Enterprises makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids Check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ ----Original Message Follows---- From: "gd891" To: Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 Hungarian squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more squads in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the buildings. I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and the playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the buildings. I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such a short one like this. Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? Greg _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net 4 From eit11205 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 28 11:49:40 2006 From: eit11205 at yahoo.com (CLAYTON QUEEN) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060828184940.15352.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com> I agree. I just happened to have played that exact scenario just two days ago as the Hungarian. I will say that I forced very few morale or eve PTC. And in fact my opponent did not fail one PTC or MC of any kind. I rolled so horribly I even dudded a Panzerfaust on one of the T-34 85. I did however kill a few of his squads in CC. I used the smoke from the the tanks to get my squads close to and into the B2 building. I did lose but with all the bad luck I was still in shape to win at the bottom of turn 5. If I would have gotten just a couple of rolls to go my way late I believe I would have won. cq --- Paul Kenny wrote: > 4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out > substantially. > > > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "gd891" > To: > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but > I'm totally missing the > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular > Activity. 14 Hungarian > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city > board to get more squads > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs > with 105 MA vs the two > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the > Huns can get to B2 in > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the > Russians and get into the > buildings. > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s > will whomp on these Hun > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to > cover all the approaches > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of > room for maneuver and the > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no > cover which the Russian > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala > Sherman vs Panther > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to > the Russkies in the > buildings. > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside > morale boost is nice, but > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad > as being gone in such a > short one like this. > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > Greg > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > 4 > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 28 11:52:38 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:52:38 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: Detection question - A12.15 In-Reply-To: <000301c6ca99$422beda0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> References: <000301c6ca99$422beda0$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:58:21 +0800, "Jon Cole" wrote: >Situation: It is my Mph and I have a concealed squad in 10D5. In 10D6 my >opponent has two counters beneath a "?" counter. Lets say they are a squad >and a HS. > >I declare Assualt move and move my squad into 10D6. My opponent reveals the >HS You mean, your opponent uses Random Selection to determine which unit loses concealment. >, bounces me back so I lose concealment and declares a Defensive First >Fire attack. All this is clear to me. > >However I believe my opponent must determine who loses "?" by Random >Selection [with the possibilty of a tie and both his units losing >concealment]> A12.15 lines 5-6 says "the DEFENDER must immediately reveal at >least one concealed unit..." while lines 30-30 say "Random selection is used >to determine which of multiple concealed units must lose their >concealment..." > >My opponent felt the Random selection was not needed as he revealed the HS >and announced the attack. Your opponent is mistaken, because *he* did not reveal the unit, but *you* did, when you entered the Location. He lost all options to control which unit loses concealment the instant that he permitted you to do so. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From albcann at warwick.net Mon Aug 28 12:59:00 2006 From: albcann at warwick.net (al cann) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:59:00 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> Message-ID: <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Point taken -- but I was hoping I'd get a few responses saying either: 1 -- I haven't gotten mine either yet, so you may not have anything to worry about, or 2 -- I got mine weeks ago, so perhaps you should be concerned. Also, given MMP's legendary customer service -- I figured I'd at least get a response through the mailing list. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Probst" To: "al cann" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400, "al cann" wrote: > >>Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal >>7? > > Why are you asking us, and not MMP? > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > > From garciagd at velocity.net Mon Aug 28 13:07:13 2006 From: garciagd at velocity.net (roger whelan) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:07:13 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541><5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <008a01c6cadd$8d666900$3903010a@gecac.org> I'd contact them I think that all the pre-orders were taken care of long ago. I believe Brian said something about just the CC issues still not being mailed out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "al cann" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 Point taken -- but I was hoping I'd get a few responses saying either: 1 -- I haven't gotten mine either yet, so you may not have anything to worry about, or 2 -- I got mine weeks ago, so perhaps you should be concerned. Also, given MMP's legendary customer service -- I figured I'd at least get a response through the mailing list. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Probst" To: "al cann" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400, "al cann" wrote: > >>Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal >>7? > > Why are you asking us, and not MMP? > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > > _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From sixplusone at charter.net Mon Aug 28 13:47:20 2006 From: sixplusone at charter.net (Christopher Fleury) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:47:20 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing References: Message-ID: <008f01c6cae3$289ef1d0$068cb018@Bunker> And the HMG on the Rooftop won't last very long... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kenny" To: ; Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing >4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. > > > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "gd891" > To: > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 > Hungarian > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more > squads > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the > buildings. > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and > the > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the > buildings. > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such > a > short one like this. > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > Greg > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > 4 > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From chas.argent at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 14:05:45 2006 From: chas.argent at gmail.com (Chas Argent) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:05:45 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: <008f01c6cae3$289ef1d0$068cb018@Bunker> References: <008f01c6cae3$289ef1d0$068cb018@Bunker> Message-ID: I won this scenario recently as the Hungarians. I used Smoke from the Assault Guns to cover the infantry's advance as much as possible, and killed both of the T-34s (on the same turn, no less) with PF shots. I was able to smash through the left side of the Russian defense and get a few units into the VC building. By locking up some the of the defenders there in Melee, a large portion of my infantry made it into the building unhindered and was able to take control for good. These are the things I think the Hungarian must do, given their weak FP and the Stone TEM: -except for Smoke from the Zrinyis (and any possible PF shots vs the T-34s) Prep Firing the infantry is a waste of time. They will have little or no effect and they must MOVE. This is a game the Hungarians can only win by maneuver. -you must risk eating the Back Blast of any PF shots you can take vs the T-34s; once (and only once) they are dead you can maneuver your Zrinyis at will; get one or two around the back side of the VC building and it's game over for the Russians. -Rally points! The SSR covering the increased Broken ML of the Hungarians almost makes them Supermen when it comes to Rallying; in fact, I had one 1st Line squad Battle Harden to an Elite squad, whose broken side ML then became 9! It's like playing with the SS only with the FP of Half-squads. An interesting scenario, with many possible setups available to both sides. Regards, Chas On 8/28/06, Christopher Fleury wrote: > And the HMG on the Rooftop won't last very long... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Kenny" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > >4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. > > > > > > > > Paul Kenny > > > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > > > Check out my website at > > > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "gd891" > > To: > > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the > > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 > > Hungarian > > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more > > squads > > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two > > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in > > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun > > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches > > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and > > the > > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian > > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther > > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but > > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such > > a > > short one like this. > > > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > > > Greg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > 4 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com From keith.dalton at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 16:26:58 2006 From: keith.dalton at gmail.com (keith dalton) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:26:58 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: <4e2cf5e00608281626o4eeb932er5a3d1c0ef21a342c@mail.gmail.com> Al: Been outta contact for a few days. You definitely need to contact the office. Call the 1-888-TGAMERS number or e-mail problems at multimanpublishing.com to check on status. Keith MMP On 8/28/06, al cann wrote: > Point taken -- but I was hoping I'd get a few responses saying either: > > 1 -- I haven't gotten mine either yet, so you may not have anything to worry > about, or > > 2 -- I got mine weeks ago, so perhaps you should be concerned. > > Also, given MMP's legendary customer service -- I figured I'd at least get a > response through the mailing list. > > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Probst" > To: "al cann" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 > > > > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400, "al cann" wrote: > > > >>Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered Journal > >>7? > > > > Why are you asking us, and not MMP? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > > "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." > > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From dlcdeepsky at insightbb.com Mon Aug 28 16:43:14 2006 From: dlcdeepsky at insightbb.com (Donald Clouse) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:43:14 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Bumping the Bundle Message-ID: <787b4cdaae3f12993f18183b71c995f0@insightbb.com> Nope, not a scenario. The preorders for the Map Bundle (1-52 & t-z, Starter Kit style) have been incrementing rather slowly of late. I'm assuming that these maps will be produced with a consistent color scheme. I've always disliked having to use maps that match so poorly in color in many cases. So, I'm looking forward to acquiring a new, "matching" (I hope) set. Quit putting it off, go ahead and place your preorder - I'm gettin' antsy! Don who is hoping the edges will line up better too... From garciagd at velocity.net Mon Aug 28 17:32:11 2006 From: garciagd at velocity.net (Roger Whelan) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:32:11 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] Bumping the Bundle In-Reply-To: <787b4cdaae3f12993f18183b71c995f0@insightbb.com> Message-ID: no offense to anyone, but I am in no hurry to pre-order this. I think it will be sometime even after it hits the P# to get published as they have to produce the map artwork (at least I think they have to re-do it). Also, I got BV3, so I have 10 of the maps. I like the ASLSK maps, but not certain I like them THAT much :>) Peace Roger -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Donald Clouse Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:43 PM To: aslml at lists.aslml.net Subject: [Aslml] Bumping the Bundle Nope, not a scenario. The preorders for the Map Bundle (1-52 & t-z, Starter Kit style) have been incrementing rather slowly of late. I'm assuming that these maps will be produced with a consistent color scheme. I've always disliked having to use maps that match so poorly in color in many cases. So, I'm looking forward to acquiring a new, "matching" (I hope) set. Quit putting it off, go ahead and place your preorder - I'm gettin' antsy! Don who is hoping the edges will line up better too... _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From garciagd at velocity.net Mon Aug 28 17:32:12 2006 From: garciagd at velocity.net (Roger Whelan) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:32:12 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I won this easily as the Russians. Looking at the card I did not think the Hungarians had much of a chance. This after I Malfed BOTH my Russian tank MA on turn 2!!!!! One got re-called the other did not fix his MA until turn five where it promptly got blasted. Hungarian player did have some bad luck, a total of 5 squads and 1 leader went berserk and charged into MG nests. The Hungarian player got to the building but by then I knew I had enough squads to win unless I did something REAL dumb and just kept skulking in the building. My HMG never fired a shot. Peace Roger -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Chas Argent Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:06 PM To: Christopher Fleury Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing I won this scenario recently as the Hungarians. I used Smoke from the Assault Guns to cover the infantry's advance as much as possible, and killed both of the T-34s (on the same turn, no less) with PF shots. I was able to smash through the left side of the Russian defense and get a few units into the VC building. By locking up some the of the defenders there in Melee, a large portion of my infantry made it into the building unhindered and was able to take control for good. These are the things I think the Hungarian must do, given their weak FP and the Stone TEM: -except for Smoke from the Zrinyis (and any possible PF shots vs the T-34s) Prep Firing the infantry is a waste of time. They will have little or no effect and they must MOVE. This is a game the Hungarians can only win by maneuver. -you must risk eating the Back Blast of any PF shots you can take vs the T-34s; once (and only once) they are dead you can maneuver your Zrinyis at will; get one or two around the back side of the VC building and it's game over for the Russians. -Rally points! The SSR covering the increased Broken ML of the Hungarians almost makes them Supermen when it comes to Rallying; in fact, I had one 1st Line squad Battle Harden to an Elite squad, whose broken side ML then became 9! It's like playing with the SS only with the FP of Half-squads. An interesting scenario, with many possible setups available to both sides. Regards, Chas On 8/28/06, Christopher Fleury wrote: > And the HMG on the Rooftop won't last very long... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Kenny" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > >4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. > > > > > > > > Paul Kenny > > > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > > > Check out my website at > > > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "gd891" > > To: > > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the > > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 > > Hungarian > > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more > > squads > > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two > > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in > > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun > > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches > > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and > > the > > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian > > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther > > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but > > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such > > a > > short one like this. > > > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > > > Greg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > 4 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From scott.holst at us.army.mil Mon Aug 28 18:17:03 2006 From: scott.holst at us.army.mil (scott.holst@us.army.mil) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:17:03 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi- Ya know, I looked at that scenario and as far as I am concerned its a dog. An aggressive Russian player will just send out his T-34's tank hunting since the Hungarian SP guns are just about useless vs the Russian armor. How this one made it past playtesting, is a real wonder. Why have the last four Journal's scenario's been small to barely medium? Plus it seems most of the scenarios seem to be from the french zine FT. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Whelan Date: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:32 pm Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > I won this easily as the Russians. Looking at the card I did not > think the > Hungarians had much of a chance. This after I Malfed BOTH my > Russian tank > MA on turn 2!!!!! One got re-called the other did not fix his MA > until turn > five where it promptly got blasted. > > Hungarian player did have some bad luck, a total of 5 squads and 1 > leaderwent berserk and charged into MG nests. > > The Hungarian player got to the building but by then I knew I had > enoughsquads to win unless I did something REAL dumb and just kept > skulking in the > building. > > My HMG never fired a shot. > > Peace > > Roger > > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net > [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Chas Argent > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:06 PM > To: Christopher Fleury > Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net > Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > I won this scenario recently as the Hungarians. > > I used Smoke from the Assault Guns to cover the infantry's advance as > much as possible, and killed both of the T-34s (on the same turn, no > less) with PF shots. I was able to smash through the left side of the > Russian defense and get a few units into the VC building. By locking > up some the of the defenders there in Melee, a large portion of my > infantry made it into the building unhindered and was able to take > control for good. > > These are the things I think the Hungarian must do, given their weak > FP and the Stone TEM: > > -except for Smoke from the Zrinyis (and any possible PF shots vs the > T-34s) Prep Firing the infantry is a waste of time. They will have > little or no effect and they must MOVE. This is a game the Hungarians > can only win by maneuver. > > -you must risk eating the Back Blast of any PF shots you can take vs > the T-34s; once (and only once) they are dead you can maneuver your > Zrinyis at will; get one or two around the back side of the VC > building and it's game over for the Russians. > > -Rally points! The SSR covering the increased Broken ML of the > Hungarians almost makes them Supermen when it comes to Rallying; in > fact, I had one 1st Line squad Battle Harden to an Elite squad, whose > broken side ML then became 9! It's like playing with the SS only with > the FP of Half-squads. > > An interesting scenario, with many possible setups available to > both sides. > > Regards, > Chas > > > On 8/28/06, Christopher Fleury wrote: > > And the HMG on the Rooftop won't last very long... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul Kenny" > > To: ; > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > > > > >4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Kenny > > > > > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > > > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > > > > > Check out my website at > > > > > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "gd891" > > > To: > > > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > > > > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally > missingthe > > > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. > 14 > > > Hungarian > > > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to > get more > > > squads > > > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA > vs the two > > > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > > > > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can > get to B2 > in > > > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and > get into > the > > > buildings. > > > > > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on > these Hun > > > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the > approaches > > > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for > maneuver and > > > the > > > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the > Russian > > > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > > > > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs > Panther> > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to > the Russkies in the > > > buildings. > > > > > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost > is nice, > but > > > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being > gone in > such > > > a > > > short one like this. > > > > > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > aslml mailing list > > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net> > 4 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > aslml mailing list > > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email > webmaster at aslml.net> > > > -- > Chas Argent > Medford, OR, USA > chas.argent at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From cduke at intelnett.com Mon Aug 28 19:04:03 2006 From: cduke at intelnett.com (Charles Duke) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:04:03 -0600 Subject: [Aslml] J7 References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <4e2cf5e00608281626o4eeb932er5a3d1c0ef21a342c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401c6cb0f$66e54fd0$641ea8c0@Duke> Yeah, but if the status is "already mailed" and you didn't get it, you're out of luck. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "keith dalton" To: "al cann" ; Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 Al: Been outta contact for a few days. You definitely need to contact the office. Call the 1-888-TGAMERS number or e-mail problems at multimanpublishing.com to check on status. Keith MMP On 8/28/06, al cann wrote: > Point taken -- but I was hoping I'd get a few responses saying either: > > 1 -- I haven't gotten mine either yet, so you may not have anything to > worry > about, or > > 2 -- I got mine weeks ago, so perhaps you should be concerned. > > Also, given MMP's legendary customer service -- I figured I'd at least get > a > response through the mailing list. > > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Probst" > To: "al cann" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Aslml] J7 > > > > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:19:59 -0400, "al cann" > > wrote: > > > >>Should I be concerned that I have not yet received my pre-ordered > >>Journal > >>7? > > > > Why are you asking us, and not MMP? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > > "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." > > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Aug 28 22:51:18 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:51:18 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] J7 In-Reply-To: <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> References: <000501c6ca16$2bed6fb0$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> <5u05f21r8aa9p6kmomb4ht6jfaufgmm881@4ax.com> <002f01c6cadc$69911710$2cb306d8@DGYPG541> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:59:00 -0400, "al cann" wrote: >1 -- I haven't gotten mine either yet, so you may not have anything to worry >about, or Well, I haven't got mine yet either, so you may not have anything to worry about. On the other hand, I didn't pre-order. >Also, given MMP's legendary customer service -- I figured I'd at least get a >response through the mailing list. I don't know what you're referring to. I've never had any problems getting a response from MMP's customer service. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From robertthepastor at juno.com Tue Aug 29 00:45:43 2006 From: robertthepastor at juno.com (Robert M Hammond) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:45:43 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC Message-ID: <20060829.005606.70600.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> I asked, "May a British-made tank which has been assigned British Vehicle Note CC cross a *Slope-Crest* hexside?" Bruce responded, "No." Alrighty then Bruce --- why not?? [Bruce] Because there's no rule that provides an EXC to the general prohibition. But, Bruce -- until BVN CC, no British-made tank could cross a Double-Crest Line; now, they can. It only makes sense (because of the errata) that these same tanks should be allowed to cross a Slope-Crest hexside. Hasn't ANYONE else out there thought of this, also??? Robert "use to talking one-to-one with the [Bruce] Almighty" Hammond From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 03:08:23 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:08:23 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: <20060829.005606.70600.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> References: <20060829.005606.70600.0.RobertThePastor@juno.com> Message-ID: <7338f2hnpopoonqdof62ma7475l72q3s7o@4ax.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:45:43 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >But, Bruce But *what*, Robert? The Chapter P and Chapter Q Slope rules EXPRESSLY AND SPECIFICALLY DISALLOW VEHICULAR TRAVERSE OF A SLOPE-CREST HEXSIDE. NO EXCEPTIONS. (The Chapter Z Slope rules for OVHS do not feature that prohibition, largely because there doesn't appear to be a single such hexside on the RR map. Note that the Slope rules are not "generic" as are the Chapter B rules; they may be adjusted according to the particular HASL that they are being applied to -- something that 3rd-party designers should keep in mind!) If you think that there *should* be a new exception to the Slopes rule, pester Perry about it. Who knows, maybe he'll agree with you. What do you expect anyone else to do about it? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk Tue Aug 29 03:11:58 2006 From: chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk (Chris Netherton) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:11:58 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] IPC, Leaders and Tunnel Movement Message-ID: <44F412EE.1060608@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Hello! Can a squad and a leader portage a 4PP SW through a tunnel? B8.61 says "A tunnel may never be overstacked, and units in a tunnel may not portage more than their IPC nor push a Gun." and A4.42 goes a little something like this "A MMC has an IPC of three PP, and a SMC has an IPC of one PP.5 An Infantry unit loses one MF for each PP carried in excess of its IPC. A SMC may never portage more than two PP although one SMC can add its IPC to that of any one Good Order Infantry unit to increase the IPC of the latter, provided the two units start the phase together and move together as a stack." I think this is telling me that a squad and a leader have a combined IPC of four and so you can move a 4PP SW through a tunnel, but I just want to check before I get my nice shiny machine gun stuck somewhere I don't want it later on, ooohh errr. Having said all that it'll probably get nuked first game turn, but you never know! Cheers Chris From geb3 at inter.net Tue Aug 29 06:10:16 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:10:16 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chas "Hosemaster to Hollywood Starlets" Argent sez: "It's like playing with the SS only with the FP of Half-squads." I'm trying to figure out if this is good or bad. George "lives to serve Zhang Ziyi" Bates Yokohama, Japan Gaming by the Bay 1st Sunday of each month. Swim on over! We'll leave the light on for you. -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Chas Argent Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:06 AM To: Christopher Fleury Cc: aslml-aslml.net at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing I won this scenario recently as the Hungarians. I used Smoke from the Assault Guns to cover the infantry's advance as much as possible, and killed both of the T-34s (on the same turn, no less) with PF shots. I was able to smash through the left side of the Russian defense and get a few units into the VC building. By locking up some the of the defenders there in Melee, a large portion of my infantry made it into the building unhindered and was able to take control for good. These are the things I think the Hungarian must do, given their weak FP and the Stone TEM: -except for Smoke from the Zrinyis (and any possible PF shots vs the T-34s) Prep Firing the infantry is a waste of time. They will have little or no effect and they must MOVE. This is a game the Hungarians can only win by maneuver. -you must risk eating the Back Blast of any PF shots you can take vs the T-34s; once (and only once) they are dead you can maneuver your Zrinyis at will; get one or two around the back side of the VC building and it's game over for the Russians. -Rally points! The SSR covering the increased Broken ML of the Hungarians almost makes them Supermen when it comes to Rallying; in fact, I had one 1st Line squad Battle Harden to an Elite squad, whose broken side ML then became 9! It's like playing with the SS only with the FP of Half-squads. An interesting scenario, with many possible setups available to both sides. Regards, Chas On 8/28/06, Christopher Fleury wrote: > And the HMG on the Rooftop won't last very long... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Kenny" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > > >4 smoke generating AFV will even the score out substantially. > > > > > > > > Paul Kenny > > > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > > makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids > > > > Check out my website at > > > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "gd891" > > To: > > Subject: [Aslml] 122- What am I missing > > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:07:40 -0500 > > > > Ok, I admit not being the greatest ASL player, but I'm totally missing the > > boat when it comes to scenario 122 - Extracurricular Activity. 14 > > Hungarian > > squads (vs 10 Russian squads) cross half of a city board to get more > > squads > > in B2 than the Russians. The Huns get four AFVs with 105 MA vs the two > > Russian T34-85s. And they get 5 1/2 turns to do it. > > > > Assuming you sprint from the setup area, I think the Huns can get to B2 in > > two turns. That leaves three turns to evict the Russians and get into the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't see how they can do it. The T34s will whomp on these Hun > > AFVs. The Russian sets up his HMG on the roof to cover all the approaches > > and the buildings are stone. There's not a lot of room for maneuver and > > the > > playing area is cut in half by one hexrow with no cover which the Russian > > can park a T34 on to smack anyone dashing across it. > > > > I thought about trying to overwhelm the T34s (ala Sherman vs Panther > > tactics) but I really need those AFVs to lay fire to the Russkies in the > > buildings. > > > > I just don't get what I'm missing. The backside morale boost is nice, but > > once they break, being out for a turn is just as bad as being gone in such > > a > > short one like this. > > > > Anyone got suggestions for the Hungarians? > > > > Greg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > 4 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aslml mailing list > > aslml at lists.aslml.net > > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From geb3 at inter.net Tue Aug 29 06:10:18 2006 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:10:18 +0900 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: <7338f2hnpopoonqdof62ma7475l72q3s7o@4ax.com> Message-ID: But, but... ... but Bruce! George "craves Bruce's approval" Bates Yokohama, Japan Gaming by the Bay 1st Sunday of each month. Swim on over! We'll leave the light on for you. -----Original Message----- From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Bruce Probst Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:08 PM To: Robert M Hammond Cc: aslml at lists.aslml.net Subject: Re: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:45:43 -0700, Robert M Hammond wrote: >But, Bruce But *what*, Robert? The Chapter P and Chapter Q Slope rules EXPRESSLY AND SPECIFICALLY DISALLOW VEHICULAR TRAVERSE OF A SLOPE-CREST HEXSIDE. NO EXCEPTIONS. (The Chapter Z Slope rules for OVHS do not feature that prohibition, largely because there doesn't appear to be a single such hexside on the RR map. Note that the Slope rules are not "generic" as are the Chapter B rules; they may be adjusted according to the particular HASL that they are being applied to -- something that 3rd-party designers should keep in mind!) If you think that there *should* be a new exception to the Slopes rule, pester Perry about it. Who knows, maybe he'll agree with you. What do you expect anyone else to do about it? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ _______________________________________________ aslml mailing list aslml at lists.aslml.net http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net From jpcole at westnet.com.au Tue Aug 29 08:56:41 2006 From: jpcole at westnet.com.au (Jon Cole) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:56:41 +0800 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: 5/8" inch concealment counter question Message-ID: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Greetings all I must be in a sleazey frame of mind as the following question occurred to me in a current game. If I start the scenario with a dummy stack of two 5/8" counters, may I at any stage of the scenario replace the 5/8" concealment counters with 1/2" concealment counters. Specifically in hex 41 J4 I have two 5/8 inch "?" counters and in hex 41 K4 I have two 1/2 inch "?" counters. In my MPh I Assualt move the half inch stack into J4 and remove one of the 5/8 "?" counters. In the Advance phase I move two 1/2 inch "?" counters back into K4 and place a 1/2 "?" counter on top of the 5/8inch "?" counter. I make the same move in my next MPh, removing the last 5/8 "?" counter, so by the end of my Adv Phase when I advance two 1/2 "?" counters back into K4, I now have four 1/2 inch "?" counters in two stacks of two. My opponent will now these are dummy stacks but I can use them as sniper bait. Anyone see any problems with the legalities of the above? Cheers Jon From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Tue Aug 29 09:18:54 2006 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:18:54 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: 5/8" inch concealment counter question References: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: <001901c6cb86$d35a1430$0200000a@posh> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Cole" To: "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:56 PM Subject: [Aslml] ASL: 5/8" inch concealment counter question > If I start the scenario with a dummy stack of two 5/8" counters, may I at > any stage of the scenario replace the 5/8" concealment counters with 1/2" > concealment counters. > Cheers > Jon Hi Jon No. A12.11 says: A 5/8" Dummy stack can claim to be an Emplaced Gun (without Emplacement TEM) or a vehicle [So it cannot claim to be an infantry unit] but, except for moving, is treated like a ?" Dummy stack for concealment loss. My emphasis. This means that the two types of ? counters cannot change during play. It also means that ? loss is similar for the two types, except for moving. The special rule is found in A12.2: "The rules of concealment apply equally to vehicles (and their PRC), Cavalry, horses, bicycles, and non-Emplaced Guns except that such concealment is lost immediately (regardless of range) whenever the unit is in the LOS of a Good Order enemy ground unit and not in Concealment Terrain (Case H of the Concealment Table), and is lost immediately if the unit moves (or is in Motion) in any way within 16 hexes and in the LOS of a Good Order enemy ground unit - even to change its CA within the same hex, regardless of the terrain it occupies. So be careful how you move those big ? around. Cheers Kenneth Knudsen From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Tue Aug 29 09:44:39 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] ASL: 5/8" inch concealment counter question In-Reply-To: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> References: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Jon Cole wrote: > If I start the scenario with a dummy stack of two 5/8" counters, may I at > any stage of the scenario replace the 5/8" concealment counters with 1/2" > concealment counters. I can't think of any rule that allows you to exchange a 5/8" ? for a 1/2" ? during play. Maybe you could be pretending to have an 81mm mortar that you pretend to dismantle. I suppose that might be legal, but I'm not sure. > My opponent will now these are dummy stacks but I can use them as sniper > bait. How does combining two dummy stacks into one help you win the scenario? It reduces the number of possible sniper targets. Is there something I'm not getting? I suppose you could split it back into two infantry stacks next turn and move them around a bit, but it's still hard to see why you want to do this, even if it were legal. Marty Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From gd891 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 29 10:20:43 2006 From: gd891 at hotmail.com (gd891) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:20:43 -0500 Subject: [Aslml] Was ASL: 5/8" inch concealment - now How stupid am I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Jon Cole wrote: >> If I start the scenario with a dummy stack of two 5/8" counters, may I >> at any stage of the scenario replace the 5/8" concealment counters with 1/2" >> concealment counters. >I can't think of any rule that allows you to exchange a 5/8" ? for a 1/2" >? during play. Maybe you could be pretending to have an 81mm mortar that you pretend to dismantle. I suppose that might >be legal, but I'm not sure. This reminds me of the funniest thing that ever happened in a game of Red Barricades. I was attacking as the Germans and most of the action had moved south of Pavlov's house and into the southern factories. My opponent makes a lunge to take back some of the northern buildings. I have this ? Stack of two counters running around behind his lines and finally he gets sick of it back there so he devotes the better part of a company hunting it down. With the concealment and stone buildings he just can't strip the thing to attempt to nail it in CC. Finally, after devoting a majority of the game to get rid of this pesky bugger, he finally stips the concealment only, to my horror, find a single 50mm mortar underneath with no owner. Luckily we're good friends and he completely understood the problem of losing track of units. Greg From snow at lasp.colorado.edu Tue Aug 29 12:14:06 2006 From: snow at lasp.colorado.edu (Marty Snow) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Aslml] Was ASL: 5/8" inch concealment - now How stupid am I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, gd891 wrote: > Finally, after devoting a majority of the game to get rid of this pesky > bugger, he finally stips the concealment only, to my horror, find a single > 50mm mortar underneath with no owner. Luckily we're good friends and he > completely understood the problem of losing track of units. > AAAHHHH! HAUNTED MORTAR!!! Run for your lives! Marty Marty Snow marty.snow at lasp.colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/home.html From chas.argent at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 12:39:36 2006 From: chas.argent at gmail.com (Chas Argent) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:39:36 -0700 Subject: [Aslml] Bumping the Bundle In-Reply-To: References: <787b4cdaae3f12993f18183b71c995f0@insightbb.com> Message-ID: Roger, I think the artwork is already well under way. I doubt there will too long of a wait before they're all done. When you consider that 14 of the original 52 and all of the SK boards are completed the project is already 35% done. -Chas On 8/28/06, Roger Whelan wrote: > no offense to anyone, but I am in no hurry to pre-order this. I think it > will be sometime even after it hits the P# to get published as they have to > produce the map artwork (at least I think they have to re-do it). > > Also, I got BV3, so I have 10 of the maps. > > I like the ASLSK maps, but not certain I like them THAT much > > :>) > > Peace > > Roger > > -----Original Message----- > From: aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net > [mailto:aslml-bounces at lists.aslml.net]On Behalf Of Donald Clouse > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:43 PM > To: aslml at lists.aslml.net > Subject: [Aslml] Bumping the Bundle > > > Nope, not a scenario. The preorders for the Map Bundle (1-52 & t-z, > Starter Kit style) have been incrementing rather slowly of late. I'm > assuming that these maps will be produced with a consistent color > scheme. I've always disliked having to use maps that match so poorly > in color in many cases. So, I'm looking forward to acquiring a new, > "matching" (I hope) set. > > Quit putting it off, go ahead and place your preorder - I'm gettin' > antsy! > > Don > who is hoping the edges will line up better too... > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > -- Chas Argent Medford, OR, USA chas.argent at gmail.com From homercles11 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 29 12:45:34 2006 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:45:34 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] New Product Announcement In-Reply-To: <0deb01c6c4b7$3534a660$6501a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: FANATIC ENTERPRISES is pleased to announce the release of the Balkan Warfare Pack; another fine scenario pack covering a variety of unique actions for the Advanced Squad Leader system. The scenario pack includes 10 scenarios covering a variety of actions in the Balkans during World War 2. This pack offers a nice collection of esoteric type scenarios covering a somewhat forgotten part of WW 2. Hopefully you will find this scenario pack interesting for its content. Note that most of these scenarios are in the small to medium range, ideal for a night of ASL or a tournament situation.. Unfortunately, the gentleman who I enlisted to create clip art for my scenario cards was unable to complete additional artwork for me by the time of the release of this pack. He had other real world commitments and hopefully he will be able to help me out with future packs. A summary of the scenarios follows: FE 50 Hungarian Action: Hungarian paratroopers drop into action! Yes, I said Hungarian Paratroopers!! This battle is the one fight where the Hungarian paratroopers actually did a combat drop. Ok this is not 100% historically accurate, the landing was unopposed and the Hungarians marched into battle but still somewhat captures the action of a bridge capture. Uses boards 23 and 49 and is medium sized. FE 51 Wolf Pack in the Hills: Many of you have been clamoring for a good ambush scenario. Ok maybe one of you, but here is a cool situation. An Italian convoy moves across the board 50 hill and runs into a Partisan ambush. Partisans basically have to annihilate the convoy, while the Italians basically have to survive. FE 52 With Friends Like These: Set on boards 32 and 50 this scenario features the Italians (actually Albanians serving for Italy) fighting the Bulgarians. A nice tourney sized scenario the Italians have to capture some buildings from the defending Bulgarians. FE 53 Operation Braun: This is the meatiest of the bunch with a large Partisan force defending against Croatian troops backed up by some armor. Set on boards 41 and 50, the Croatians have to capture some buildings. Tough to accomplish against stone buildings. FE 54 Dubrovnik 2: This is an interesting one set on board 48. Attacking Croatian troops have to kick out a small Partisan force from the village. Then they have defend against a counterattacking force. The victory conditions are tied around holding buildings, with fortified buildings (which can be made during play) counting for more VP. A smaller sized scenario that should allow for some good replay. FE 55 Friends No More: Here is cool scenario set on boards 4, 8 and FE1 (free for download from my website, for use with VASL). Germans and Rumanians try to control a bridge with the Germans having to get some VP over the bridge. Again, another smaller tourney sized scenario. FE 56 Covering the Retreat: This is a medium sized scenario set on boards w and 18. Defending Germans get some armor including French tanks and have to defend against a tidal wave, well a small wave of Russian combined arms. Germans try to hold onto a building or 3. FE 57 War Without End: Defending Germans with some Italian tanks and assault guns defend the board 12 village from very powerful British armored troops crossing the board 50 hill mass. The Germans who are very brittle try to keep a hold of a building or two while the Brits race against time. FE 58 The End is in Sight: A medium sized scenario featuring Croatian infantry and armor trying to break through a Partisan blocking force. Set on boards 10 and 44. This is another one of those scenarios featuring vehicles from Armies of Oblivion; another example of the vast amount of scenarios that can now be played with ASL. FE 59 But We’re Not Quite There!: Once again a tired Croatian armor and infantry force, this time smaller due to previous battles tries to blast through a Partisan blocking force. This is another tourney-sized scenario set on board 45. Fanatic Enterprises continues to enlist the assistance of several ASL'ers as Playtesters and Proofreaders and wish to express my gratitude and thanks. Balkan Warfare can be purchased for $10/pack. The Blitzkrieg Pack can be purchased for $18/pack, the Luzon Pack, The Oblivion Pack, Fanatic Pack #4, Fanatic Pack # 3, Fanatic Pack #2 and Fanatic Pack #1 can each be purchased for $12/pack and the Battlin' Bastards of Bataan Pack and Barbarossa Pack can be purchased for $10/pack while the Leningrad Pack can be purchased for $16/pack. Shipping and Handling is $2.50 for delivery in the US, or $5 for delivery overseas for the first pack. Add $1.25 for each additional pack in the US and $2.50 for each additional pack oversees. Please send check or money order to Paul Kenny, PO Box 644, Haddonfield, NJ 08033. I also accept Paypal under the name homercles11 at hotmail.com if paying with a Paypal account based on a credit card or under the name paul_kenny at rve.com if paying with a Paypal account NOT based on a credit card. Also please check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ Thanks again for your support. Paul Kenny Owner of Fanatic Enterprises makers of quality ASL scenario packs and play aids Check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ From chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk Tue Aug 29 13:27:40 2006 From: chris at evingar.eclipse.co.uk (Chris Netherton) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:27:40 +0100 Subject: [Aslml] Minimum move and Barbed Wire Message-ID: <44F4A33C.6030002@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Hello! May a MMC (without a leader) cross a barbed wire hexside and enter an olive grove at night by declaring a minimum move? Olive grove is 3 MF at night, barbed wire hexside is 2 at night so total 5 MF. Can't cross a barbed wire hexside if you're "currently-CX" A4.134 states that "After a unit has entered a hex by Minimum Move and undergone all First Fire, all unbroken survivors become both pinned and CX (even if CX previously)." So I think this means you can cross the barbed wire hexside because you become CX after entering the hex. My only concern is the sentence later on which says "However, a Minimum Move cannot be made to enter a terrain whose entrance is listed as NA (Not Allowed)." Just looking for some confirmation! Cheers Chris From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 14:59:32 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:59:32 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: References: <7338f2hnpopoonqdof62ma7475l72q3s7o@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:10:18 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >George "craves Bruce's approval" Bates You won't get it if you don't stop those filthy habits! You know the ones I mean. Like Sauron at Barad-dur, my Eye sees all. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 15:10:10 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:10:10 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] IPC, Leaders and Tunnel Movement In-Reply-To: <44F412EE.1060608@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> References: <44F412EE.1060608@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Message-ID: <6me9f2tkd4u6c5qd6he7d4i61pa78fvs1r@4ax.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:11:58 +0100, Chris Netherton wrote: > Can a squad and a leader portage a 4PP SW through a tunnel? Yes. > B8.61 says > "A tunnel may never be overstacked, and units in a tunnel may not > portage more than their IPC nor push a Gun." > and A4.42 goes a little something like this > "A MMC has an IPC of three PP, and a SMC has an IPC of one PP.5 An > Infantry unit loses one MF for each PP carried in excess of its IPC. A > SMC may never portage more than two PP although one SMC can add its > IPC to that of any one Good Order Infantry unit to increase the IPC of > the latter, provided the two units start the phase together and move > together as a stack." Right. Note the phrase "increase the IPC of the latter" -- i.e., the MMC's IPC is being altered by the presence of the SMC. > I think this is telling me that a squad and a leader have a combined > IPC of four and so you can move a 4PP SW through a tunnel, but I just > want to check before I get my nice shiny machine gun stuck somewhere I > don't want it later on, ooohh errr. Your reasoning is sound. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 15:15:47 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:15:47 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] ASL: 5/8" inch concealment counter question In-Reply-To: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> References: <000901c6cb83$b7d80620$6401a8c0@401b29ad67014ec> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:56:41 +0800, "Jon Cole" wrote: >If I start the scenario with a dummy stack of two 5/8" counters, may I at >any stage of the scenario replace the 5/8" concealment counters with 1/2" >concealment counters. I'm not sure that I could produce evidence to say that it's illegal, but I'm quite sure that I can't produce a rule specifically permitting you to do so, so I'd go with COWTRA and say "no". The only rule that touches on this at all is the last sentence of A12.2 and it refers only to the exchange of OB-awarded 1/2" counters for 5/8" counters (note that the reverse is not permitted). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From asl at thuring.com Tue Aug 29 15:27:31 2006 From: asl at thuring.com (lars thuring) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:27:31 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] British Vehicle Note CC In-Reply-To: References: <7338f2hnpopoonqdof62ma7475l72q3s7o@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44F4BF53.7090608@thuring.com> Bruce Probst wrote: > Like Sauron at Barad-dur, my Eye sees all. Well, he missed those concealed hobbits sneaking around in the Alpine terrain in his backyard. Of course they were just two (very small) SMC and he was distracted by the Hero-led Cavalry at his frontdoor. cheers, Lars > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." > ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _______________________________________________ > aslml mailing list > aslml at lists.aslml.net > http://lists.aslml.net/listinfo.cgi/aslml-aslml.net > To unsubscribe, visit the above website, or email webmaster at aslml.net > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 15:30:24 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:30:24 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] Minimum move and Barbed Wire In-Reply-To: <44F4A33C.6030002@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> References: <44F4A33C.6030002@evingar.eclipse.co.uk> Message-ID: <37f9f292afv47tfpsli881vapnpnsn492q@4ax.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:27:40 +0100, Chris Netherton wrote: >May a MMC (without a leader) cross a barbed wire hexside and enter an >olive grove at night by declaring a minimum move? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you're referring to the Barbed Wire rules from Chapter Z for the PBr HASL. It was all of yesterday that I was pointing out that CG-specific terrain rules are *CG-specific*, so you need to be careful when you're referring to stuff like "barbed wire", "slopes", etc. because they might appear in multiple products without necessarily being identical in each. As long as the units crossing the hexside are not "currently-CX", this should be fine. >My only concern is the sentence later on which says "However, a Minimum >Move cannot be made to enter a terrain whose entrance is listed as NA >(Not Allowed)." True, but that's not the case here. As you point out the unit doesn't become CX until after it completes the Minimum Move. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From afantozzi at tiscali.it Mon Aug 21 16:09:00 2006 From: afantozzi at tiscali.it (Andrea) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:09:00 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] R: Mortar and hedges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c6cc7c$91f102a0$eb105452@andrea> Hi Bruce, first of all thank you for your explanation. However, there is one thing that you write that really puts me off balance... I said: > >Assume a Woods hex contains a 1S Foxhole (but no enemy > units); a same-level > >Mortar could fire at that hex by adding +2 for case K (to > discover any HIP > >units therein, for example). And you replied: > OK. It won't discover anyone *in* the foxhole, though, > because it has no LOS > to them. Why the Mortar "has no LOS"? Only because they might be HIP? There is no hedge here... The two hexes are at the same level (level 0 for example) and LOS is unobstructed (no hedges or anything else). To quote some coordinates... Mortar is in 7G8 (open Ground). Foxhole is in 7K10 (Woods). Any unit in the Foxhole is in the Mortar LOS. How can a unit in the Foxhole be out of the Mortar LOS? Thank you Andrea Fantozzi -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 09/08/2006 From oleboe at broadpark.no Wed Aug 30 14:54:01 2006 From: oleboe at broadpark.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Ole_Boe?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:54:01 +0200 Subject: [Aslml] R: Mortar and hedges In-Reply-To: <000401c6cc7c$91f102a0$eb105452@andrea> Message-ID: Hi,Andrea Fantozzi wrote > Hi Bruce, > first of all thank you for your explanation. However, there is one thing > that you write that really puts me off balance... > I said: > > >Assume a Woods hex contains a 1S Foxhole (but no enemy > > >units); a same-level > > >Mortar could fire at that hex by adding +2 for case K (to > > >discover any HIP units therein, for example). > > And you replied: > > OK. It won't discover anyone *in* the foxhole, though, > > because it has no LOS > > to them. > > Why the Mortar "has no LOS"? Only because they might be HIP? There is no > hedge here... > I'm not Bruce, but I'm a bit more than 99% sure that Bruce misread your question and thought the unit and foxhole was behind a hedge in this example too. From watkins.bill at verizon.net Wed Aug 30 17:55:24 2006 From: watkins.bill at verizon.net (Bill Watkins) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Aslml] [aslml] New pack from Fanatic Message-ID: <44F6337C.9060106@verizon.net> In my daily desperate search for new scenarios, caught announcement on Fanatic Enterprises that they are releasing a 10 scenario Balkan pack. For $10, the opportunity to have Partisans ambush an Italian convoy looks like a winner. Hungarian paratroopers also. Their website is http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ Bill Watkins From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Aug 30 18:29:17 2006 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:29:17 +1000 Subject: [Aslml] R: Mortar and hedges In-Reply-To: <000401c6cc7c$91f102a0$eb105452@andrea> References: <000401c6cc7c$91f102a0$eb105452@andrea> Message-ID: <9pecf2dn4nj9ak8lpbjgi4q5stj1qv7dqq@4ax.com> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:09:00 +0200, "Andrea" wrote: >Why the Mortar "has no LOS"? Only because they might be HIP? There is no >hedge here... As Ole said, I misread your question and assumed that there was a hedge involved. My apologies. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst at netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Oh no, they're doing it clown-style!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From daveolie at eastlink.ca Thu Aug 31 23:45:19 2006 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 03:45:19 -0300 Subject: [Aslml] Quick AARs - ASL 122 and J102 Message-ID: <016c01c6cd92$3aac5690$b679de18@SR1820NX> Hey, all. I was going to do a much more detailed pair of AARs on these scenarios, and I might do so yet. But for now, here's the quick and dirty. Gord Reid and I got together to play some FtF last weekend. We decided to start to play all the new J7 scenarios in order, since they all seem relatively quick to play and not overly complicated. So to begin we played ASL 122 "Extracurricular Activity" which I won as the Russian. Gord really tried to push too hard too fast, IMO; he was concerned about his 6 turn time limit. He basically charged at me and I pretty much mowed him down. Lots of Hungarian conscripts - it wasn't pretty. He conceeded during his third turn when my Sniper plugged the CE commander of one of his Zryinis. We both totally spaced on the rule giving the Hungarians possible PF in this time frame; it might have made a difference to Gord's sense of desperation. Next we played J102 "The Yelnya Bridge", and I won as the German. Gord had a good set-up (except for the 76L ART, which was illegally HIP, but we played it out anyway), and I pushed right into his strongest area near the village. It was touch-and-go for a bit, but he conceeded in his turn 3 when his gun went down on a IF shot. I think the Germans have way too many options in this one. Then we got about halfway through J103 "Lenin's Sons", with me as the Russian. We're going to complete this by email. Looks like a much closer contest so far. I'll try to post something when we're done. David "I made goulash of those Hungarians" Olie